The Future Trunks Arc Under a Critical Lens

[omaro34]

Trunks and Mai going back to a timeline where everybody they knew is alive but had no idea what happened, plus them living in the same planet as another Trunks & Mai is just such an open ended ending. Just weird, living on earth when you know another you is roaming around.

Would be hilarious if the Trunks that fought Black is by himself and runs into the other Mai. How that interaction would work out is beyond me.

[JazzMazz]

The Zamasu arc was bad.

It was poorly paced and segmented. I found I had trouble getting into the arc because there were way too tonal shifts and it never maintained a consistent atmospere throughout. Not to mention the stakes weren't that there.

The powerscaling was non-existent.

The characters didn't change or truly learn anything.

Time travel is bullshit.

Zamasu wasn't really all that interesting as a character, and his interactions with the heroes are generic. Later on his just cringy. I would rate him a Kaioh(Hokuto No Ken 2) level bad guy.

Goku Black is extremely fun, though I think this has more to due with his mannerisms and Masako Nozawa's brilliant performance.

The ending made everything the characters did completely superflous and was a cop-out.

[sunkensheep]

I have a question about Zamasu killing all the Kaioshins from all the universes: As far as we know, when a god dies from an unnatural death (e.g. Elder Kaioshin or King Kai) they are allowed to preserve their body, so they're basically the same with a halo on their head. Shouldn't that have happened when Zamasu and Black killed the other Kaioshins too?
My only guess is that, if I'm not mistaken, if someone who's already dead gets killed again, it ceases to exist for good. So that means that Zamasu and Black killed every Kaioshin twice? What do you think?

[Basako]

I have a question about Zamasu killing all the Kaioshins from all the universes: As far as we know, when a god dies from an unnatural death (e.g. Elder Kaioshin or King Kai) they are allowed to preserve their body, so they're basically the same with a halo on their head. Shouldn't that have happened when Zamasu and Black killed the other Kaioshins too?
My only guess is that, if I'm not mistaken, if someone who's already dead gets killed again, it ceases to exist for good. So that means that Zamasu and Black killed every Kaioshin twice? What do you think?

Yes, Black killed all Kaioshins in that timeline, killing the Hakaishins at the same time, except U7, Dabra did that for him.

The elder got to stay in Kaioshin's planet when he exchanged his living status for Goku’s dead one, who had kept his body when he died. It was a very unique way of dying. I think it's safe to assume that Kaioshins dying under normal circumstances go to their respective Yama's place, where they can keep their body or not.

The problem. What happened to Goku, Kaio and Bubbles when they exploded with Cell? I think they are seen in the snake way later when they speak with Gohan. But, who knows, maybe they went through Yama first and then went to the snake way. It's a bit forced, but it could be.

[JazzMazz]

It's not really head cannon when it's a logical way of how the scene works. If someone pushes a glass over, it's not a head-cannon to say that the glass fell because their hand pushed against it.Of course they were both pushing, piercing won't happen if there's no pressure or resistance from the side that goes through the other.

Even though it's been constantly noted by Goku, Trunks and Vegito that Zamasu keeps letting his guard down. Even though the show continuously emphasising how effective a surprise attack can be.

It doesn't matter how focused you are, if someone pulls out a trump card that you didn't expect, you're going to be caught off guard. And Super barely ever shows a lot of damage (Which is a problem), so it's asinine to assume that the Galick Gun had no effect.

If he realised his hypocrisy he wouldn't be as entertaining a villain. A lot of the entertainment value of Zamasu is in how blatantly ego-centric, insane and hammy he is as well as the poetic irony of his defeat.

That still doesn't make any sense. By that logic, Bardock's blast should have gone through Frieza's deathball and seriously damaged him instead of being casually absorbed, since Frieza literally used one finger, with hardly any of his power and wasn't even trying, while the weaker Bardock had focused all his power into one focused blast.
Not to mention, Zamasu having the same weakness as every other DragonBallZ villain doesn't make him unique.

[Freeza9000]

It was poorly paced and segmented. I found I had trouble getting into the arc because there were way too tonal shifts and it never maintained a consistent atmosphere throughout. Not to mention the stakes weren't that there.

The stakes were there, Trunks trying to protect his world from complete annihilation as the world is already fucked up as it is. I don't really see any drastic tone changes, though the scenes with the Pilaf Gang needs to be erased from the screen.

The characters didn't change or truly learn anything.

Uhhh, are you forgetting that Gowasu existed?

Zamasu wasn't really all that interesting as a character, and his interactions with the heroes are generic. Later on his just cringy. I would rate him a Kaioh(Hokuto No Ken 2) level bad guy.

Zamasu was interesting as a character. Seeing how he went from being an obedient, graceful and respectful student to a power hungry murderous narcissist after being consistently disgusted by the evil deeds of mortals was interesting enough. In what way is he cringy or generic? I would gladly appreciate you giving some explanation.

The ending made everything the characters did completely superflous and was a cop-out.

You know what made the ending more unique than other endings of DB arcs? It's that it actually showed the protagonists downright fail which the people that got killed by Zamasu and Zeno will never be wished back to life again and are lost from existence. This especially goes back to Beerus's statement in EP. 50: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp520p87tH0

[YajirobiTheGreat]

I certainly enjoyed it. I had a few problems with it though. Those being...

Goku and Vegeta show. Trunks was included thankfully, but I wish more characters could have taken part.

Lack of padding. I like things stretched out. Only having three heros makes stretching things out tough.

Number one issue though? Not taking things seriously enough got a multiverse destroyed.

The Z fighters basically felt like they just showed up a few times without anything more than a very basic plan. They didn't kill Black when he was weaker and didn't bring backup when they realized how strong he could be. They could have fit any number of fighters in a jar for backup. Given the stakes they should have tried to train Gohan, Future Trunks, Goten, and Present Trunks in the ROSAT until they had multiple gods. They should have had Piccolo look into the Namekian God and brought him as a Mafuba user regardless. They should have checked on Uub to see if a year or two in the ROSAT could prepare him for this. Should have hired Hit. Should have brought Buu. Should have brought Dende and the Dragon Balls.

In Z if they knew the stakes were this high and failed several times, I can't imagine that they would have basically just acquired the Mafuba and proceeded again for the final battle. They would have trained hardcore and brought in the cavalry as a reserve, even if their backup only ends up sitting on the sideline.

It almost felt like the writers had the Z fighters show general indfference to the fate of an entire multiverse that had repeatedly made its way back to their own (between Trunks and Zamatsu) who they also knew were already manipulating the timeline. Like they treated it like a part time thing or nothing at all.

[iamthelaw7]

I liked the Future Trunks arc. It was a little rushed, but I also liked that each episode kept me interested. The arc did have some mistakes but the manga cleared up a lot of things for me. For example, the manga explained that Zamasu/Goku Black chose Future Trunk's timeline because Kaioshin was killed when Future Trunks defeated Dabura/Babidi. Thus, Beerus died and couldn't destroy them. Also, in the manga Whis didn't turn back time before Beerus destroyed Zamasu, which was a clearer explanation as to why a time ring was created. To me the biggest flaw of the anime version was that it lacked these explanations and didn't sufficiently explain the time travel, etc.

Overall, the Future Trunks arc has been my favorite arc in super because of the new villains and significant plot developments in each episode. I also appreciated Zamasu's evil motives - it lacked complexity but I liked that Zamasu was the ultimate hypocrite because he chose a mortal's body to achieve his "godly" plan. Not sure if they will ever come close to the evil motives in the Namek/Freeza arcs, with the flashbacks of what Freeza did to the Saiyans. Freeza will withstand the test of time because he was such a dynamic villain - he didn't kill everything in sight for no reason. Instead, he controlled people, turned them into slaves, employed them in his army, and strategically wiped out people to gain more power/wealth. Cell and buu were simple evil, Zamasu was somewhere in the middle.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I liked that Zamasu was the ultimate hypocrite because he chose a mortal's body to achieve his "godly" plan.

It goes further than that. He was angry at humans because they were violent... so he murdered the gods and exterminated humanity. He hated humans because their power was dangerous to gods, yet he was the one who slaughtered every last one of said gods. From the start, Zamasu was more a hypocrisy with lungs and limbs than he ever was a god.

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

I thought this about the story myself a few times but it still is my 2nd favorite Super arc (2nd to the current arc right now).

Just full of badassness, nothing can change it.
And Goku Black was an awesome character. A twisted and over obsessed kind of character. He pulled it off.

I liked the Future Trunks arc. It was a little rushed, but I also liked that each episode kept me interested.

And this. There were plenty of developments in the arc and there was not one single point where it felt bland.

[iamthelaw7]

I liked that Zamasu was the ultimate hypocrite because he chose a mortal's body to achieve his "godly" plan.

It goes further than that. He was angry at humans because they were violent... so he murdered the gods and exterminated humanity. He hated humans because their power was dangerous to gods, yet he was the one who slaughtered every last one of said gods. From the start, Zamasu was more a hypocrisy with lungs and limbs than he ever was a god.

True, he hated the violence of mortals and that they made the same mistakes over and over again. He also was an insane narcissist. In the end his plan was only about himself. I really liked the parts where he wouldn't stop talking about himself and Goku and Vegeta stopped listening to him. For example, when Zamasu was rambling on and he realized that Goku and Vegeta were ignoring him and arguing about the urn.

[iamthelaw7]

And Goku Black was an awesome character. A twisted and over obsessed kind of character. He pulled it off.

Agreed, I thought Goku Black was an awesome character. The voice acting was really well done.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Anime Goku Black was amazing.

Future Zamasu was really boring. I like his fighting style but personality wise he seemed dull.

[JazzMazz]

It was poorly paced and segmented. I found I had trouble getting into the arc because there were way too tonal shifts and it never maintained a consistent atmosphere throughout. Not to mention the stakes weren't that there.

The stakes were there, Trunks trying to protect his world from complete annihilation as the world is already fucked up as it is. I don't really see any drastic tone changes, though the scenes with the Pilaf Gang needs to be erased from the screen.

The characters didn't change or truly learn anything.

Uhhh, are you forgetting that Gowasu existed?

Zamasu wasn't really all that interesting as a character, and his interactions with the heroes are generic. Later on his just cringy. I would rate him a Kaioh(Hokuto No Ken 2) level bad guy.

Zamasu was interesting as a character. Seeing how he went from being an obedient, graceful and respectful student to a power hungry murderous narcissist after being consistently disgusted by the evil deeds of mortals was interesting enough. In what way is he cringy or generic? I would gladly appreciate you giving some explanation.

The ending made everything the characters did completely superflous and was a cop-out.

You know what made the ending more unique than other endings of DB arcs? It's that it actually showed the protagonists downright fail which the people that got killed by Zamasu and Zeno will never be wished back to life again and are lost from existence. This especially goes back to Beerus's statement in EP. 50: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp520p87tH0

-Yes, Future Trunks needed to save his already completely devasted and nearly totally lifeless planet. If they really wanted the audience to care, they would have made the main conflict happen in the present, where everything wasn't destroyed, so they actually had something real to fight for. Namely the saving the multiverse.
As for the tonal changes, I felt they were generally too lighthearted at crucial points, like them constantly playing off Goku as forgetful or Goku saying stupid stuff in a situation that didn't call for it.

-Gowasu recieved decent character development, but did it actually mean anything in the long run? No, it didn't. So my point still stands.

-Though I do think that Zamasu's early development was interesting, my problem with his character is that there really wasn't real transition point. In other words, we saw an interesting beginning development, as the slowly corrupted student of Gowasu, but we never saw his turning point when he decided that killing Gowasu would be the best course of action, and he became the psycho God-killer that he was as Black. The other problem I had with Zamasu in particular, is that his interactions with the charactes are generic villain banter in comparison to Black. In other words, Zamasu was better as developing villain(which was botched at the end), than an actual villain.

-I'm fine with characters downright failing, but the problem with the Zamasu ending was that they failed because of plot induced stupidity and nothing of their own doing. My problem with the ending in some ways, ties back to my problems with the arc being set in the future. We don't care about the future, it's a dead place of nothingness, so why should we care to see the future completely obliterated. The answer is we don't.