Should Super Have An Episode About Vegeta Overcoming "Kakarotto"?

[Super_Divine_Genki]

Taking some inspiration from another thread:

Near the end of Z, Vegeta's inner-monologue provided us with a look into how he's settled into admitting that "Kakarotto" is just simply always one step ahead of him, and that "Kakarotto" is Number One. He appeared to be contented, all things considering.

However, in Super, Vegeta's gone back and has been set on being the strongest above all again. There have been shades of Artificial Human/Cell arc Vegeta throughout this series. Vegeta then fell back into being domesticated/contented and became background noise before and during the time that Bulla/Bra was born. More recently, Vegeta has returned to seeing himself on the highest plateau as far as might is concerned.

How do we explain this? Was Vegeta's previous "Number One" conclusion during a moment of overwhelming inferiority? Should that admittance have stuck and then go on to define the Goku/Vegeta rivalry in Super? Do you like that Vegeta continues to attempt to be at least on the same level as Goku?

Should Super have a full episode that goes further into Vegeta's oft-spoken declaration before the tournament gets underway?


For me, I like that Vegeta has been inspired to continue keeping up with Goku, and is even set on surpassing him. His inner-monologue near the end of Z can be seen as just that -- in the moment thoughts -- and nobody else in-Universe knows (at the time, it was Vegeta's character arc being brought to an end). An entire episode of Super should be produced that further explores this reigniting of Vegeta's ultimate goal -- and preferably before the ToP. Vegeta hasn't been highlighted yet during this run, and there's still plenty of time...

I need to know where Vegeta definitively stands on this recurring subject.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Taking some inspiration from another thread:

Near the end of Z, Vegeta's inner-monologue provided us with a look into how he's settled into admitting that "Kakarotto" is just simply always one step ahead of him, and that "Kakarotto" is Number One. He appeared to be contented, all things considering.

However, in Super, Vegeta's gone back and has been set on being the strongest above all again. There have been shades of Artificial Human/Cell arc Vegeta throughout this series. Vegeta then fell back into being domesticated/contented and became background noise before and during the time that Bulla/Bra was born. More recently, Vegeta has returned to seeing himself on the highest plateau as far as might is concerned.

How do we explain this? Was Vegeta's previous "Number One" conclusion during a moment of overwhelming inferiority? Should that admittance have stuck and then go on to define the Goku/Vegeta rivalry in Super? Do you like that Vegeta continues to attempt to be at least on the same level as Goku?

Should Super have a full episode that goes further into Vegeta's oft-spoken declaration before the tournament gets underway?


For me, I like that Vegeta has been inspired to continue keeping up with Goku, and is even set on surpassing him. His inner-monologue near the end of Z can be seen as just that -- in the moment thoughts -- and nobody else in-Universe knows (at the time, it was Vegeta's character arc being brought to an end). An entire episode of Super should be produced that further explores this reigniting of Vegeta's ultimate goal -- and preferably before the ToP. Vegeta hasn't been highlighted yet during this run, and there's still plenty of time...

I need to know where Vegeta definitively stands on this recurring subject.

Well I think its like this and of course just opinion.

Vegeta knows Goku is usually a level ahead...but it wont stop him from trying. Though he now is able to deal with that fact. Obtaining God ki may also have helped him realize he isnt at his limit yet...which may be why he was resigned to it.

[Chuquita]

I'm just relieved that Vegeta's decided to keep the rivalry going. I was genuinely worried about him for a while there. GT Vegeta was depressing for the majority of his run and I didn't want that to happen again.

Vegeta's at his most entertaining to me when he goes full in on his rivalry with Gokû. That, and Vegeta's short lived twarting of Freeza's plans during the Namek arc.

I wanted more episodes about their rivalry while studying under Whis, and then their three years together in the RoSaT; Toei wasn't interested in it, I guess.

[emperior]

Vegeta addressed in Super that, even if he admitted Goku is number 1, he won't stop trying to surpass him. This makes sense as Vegeta is still a Saiyan, he won't just stop training and fighting.
Right now Vegeta is doing a good job at keeping up with Goku and I can't see him stopping yet. He will probably always stay just one step behind Goku but if at the end of Super Goku is the number 1 in all the universes, Vegeta will be number 2.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Vegeta addressed in Super that, even if he admitted Goku is number 1, he won't stop trying to surpass him. This makes sense as Vegeta is still a Saiyan, he won't just stop training and fighting.
Right now Vegeta is doing a good job at keeping up with Goku and I can't see him stopping yet. He will probably always stay just one step behind Goku but if at the end of Super Goku is the number 1 in all the universes, Vegeta will be number 2.

Seriously...its like they are martial arts soul mates.

Also agreed with the previous poster that GT Vegeta was kinda sad.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

My thoughts on Vegeta are that he is absolutely not worth standing when he behaves and acts like a rival. When he finishes his sentences that aren't related to "Kakarotto" or his actions which aren't related to "Kakarotto", he is interesting. (See: Early Freeza arc, no "Kakarotto" bullshit and his focus was on Freeza and his men and how to outhink them. That Vegeta was a fine character.)

Yes, in my highly unpopular opinion, Vegeta and Gokuu's rivalry is one of the worst things in the franchise and I hope it just died. But, nope. Vegeta and Gokuu will always continue to compete for Saiyan #1 even though Gokuu doesn't give a shit, but whatever.

While Vegeta in the current story hasn't irritated me cause he wasn't doing typical Vegeta things, it's only a matter of time where he goes back to his "I will surpass you Kakarotto" crap which seems to be the selling point of his character. So, yeah what I want is irrelevant, this is exactly what's going to happen. Vegeta will forever be Gokuu's eternal rival. They're never letting this plot point go. I'm not interested in it and by extension not interested in Vegeta's character.

[SaiyanGod117]

It seems like Super regressed Vegeta's character an aspect of Vegeta's character of coming to terms with Goku always being ahead of him. I don't know why they did it, instead of Vegeta trying to be obsessed with surpassing Goku, he could instead just focus on surpassing his own limits. This route would have been the much better option to go.

[GodKaio-Ken]

My thoughts on Vegeta are that he is absolutely not worth standing when he behaves and acts like a rival. When he finishes his sentences that aren't related to "Kakarotto" or his actions which aren't related to "Kakarotto", he is interesting. (See: Early Freeza arc, no "Kakarotto" bullshit and his focus was on Freeza and his men and how to outhink them. That Vegeta was a fine character.)

Yes, in my highly unpopular opinion, Vegeta and Gokuu's rivalry is one of the worst things in the franchise and I hope it just died. But, nope. Vegeta and Gokuu will always continue to compete for Saiyan #1 even though Gokuu doesn't give a shit, but whatever.

While Vegeta in the current story hasn't irritated me cause he wasn't doing typical Vegeta things, it's only a matter of time where he goes back to his "I will surpass you Kakarotto crap" which seems to be the selling point of his character. So, yeah what I want is irrelevant, this is exactly what's going to happen. Vegeta will forever be Gokuu's eternal rival. They're never letting this plot point go. I'm not interested in it and by extension not interested in Vegeta's character.

They can compete without it being annoying, which is exactly what Super has done IMO its one of the few ways I really applaud their writing at TOEI

[sintzu]

Was Vegeta's previous "Number One" conclusion during a moment of overwhelming inferiority ?

No and he points it out in Super's first episode when he says he knows Goku is stronger but it won't stop him from trying to catch up.

[Drellz26]

Yes, in my highly unpopular opinion, Vegeta and Gokuu's rivalry is one of the worst things in the franchise and I hope it just died. But, nope. Vegeta and Gokuu will always continue to compete for Saiyan #1 even though Gokuu doesn't give a shit, but whatever.

While Vegeta in the current story hasn't irritated me cause he wasn't doing typical Vegeta things, it's only a matter of time where he goes back to his "I will surpass you Kakarotto crap" which seems to be the selling point of his character. So, yeah what I want is irrelevant, this is exactly what's going to happen. Vegeta will forever be Gokuu's eternal rival. They're never letting this plot point go.

This is where I have to disagree. First, I don't think that Goku doesn't give a shit. He let's it be known he wants to be the strongest in the multiverse or at least fight the strongest, so he constantly trains for that. He may not give a shit about being the strongest Saiyan, but he wants to be the strongest something lol. It's no longer about being the strongest Saiyan for Vegeta either, he wants to reach his max power and will never be satisfied where he is at when he sees Goku constantly improve and he knows that means he can as well.

Which brings me to my next point, while their rivalry has stayed the same, it has for sure evolved. After the Earth fight, the rivalry was Vegeta was embarrassed and wanted revenge. Then it was constantly training because Goku was a Super Saiyan. Then while they were basically equal in strength, Vegeta wanted to prove he can beat Goku and was willing to take any means necessary(Majin). What I got out of the end of the Buu saga was Vegeta realizing that he will never improve at the rate Goku does because his quest for power is routed in jealousy and rage, not personal goals/protection. And now in Super, he's constantly improving for himself and his family. To be as strong as he can be, to perfect his power, not just to surpass Goku. I'm sure in his mind that perfecting that power will make him the strongest but I really don't get the "IllbebetterthanyouGokuyoujustwait" vibe From Super Vegeta at all.

[SaiyanGod117]

Was Vegeta's previous "Number One" conclusion during a moment of overwhelming inferiority ?

No and he points it out in Super's first episode when he says he knows Goku is stronger but it won't stop him from trying to catch up.

He's pretty much the same Vegeta from the Buu Saga than, still obsessed with surpassing Goku.

[sintzu]

He's pretty much the same Vegeta from the Buu Saga than, still obsessed with surpassing Goku.

He is but it's more of a friendly rivalry unlike before.

[Super_Divine_Genki]

Just to clarify, there's a light drizzling of sarcasm in the OP.

Was Vegeta's previous "Number One" conclusion during a moment of overwhelming inferiority ?

No and he points it out in Super's first episode when he says he knows Goku is stronger but it won't stop him from trying to catch up.

Yeah, I kinda answered my own question towards the end of the OP:

His inner-monologue near the end of Z can be seen as just that -- in the moment thoughts -- and nobody else in-Universe knows (at the time, it was Vegeta's character arc being brought to an end).

In Super, Vegeta surpassed SSJ3 Goku ( originally in BoG, SSJ2 "mutation"), then Vegeta deferred to Goku to attain SSJG, then later Goku was very happy that Vegeta attained SSJB on his own, then Goku stacks Kaio-ken, then Vegeta overwhelms Goku Black, then Goku's excitement for battle gets more intensified in the Zen matches while Vegeta's mostly offscreen, now Vegeta... ???

Yep, it's a much friendlier and healthier rivalry. I'm curious if Vegeta will pull out something that we haven't seen yet, or even a variation of something that's familiar. He's been in a drought.

I'm also with Saikyo no Senshi though. Super needs to take Vegeta out of that little corner that he's been in of "I'm the Saiya-jin Prince! Vegeta-sama!!", and "I will surpass you, Kakarotto!" and throw him into an arc that goes back to Vegeta, as an individual. As has been mentioned for a while, giving him something to do with Planet Sadal/Salad and making him the lead, or co-lead with Goku, could get him out of his usual box and do some interesting things with him for a change, imo.

[GodKaio-Ken]

In the Buu Saga Vegeta thought he and Goku were both near their absolute limits. At that point he probably accepted his place, but now acquiring a new Godly power that perception has been shattered and there is room to grow.

Couple that with his evolving maturity and character and I think thats most of the answer right there.