Thoughts on getting rid of transformations completely?

[Master Xar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=deskt ... B6jnvYy5do

He makes a few good points on it, but I feel like it just wouldn't be right... like it would be the series trying to be something it's not in a bad way. I feel like it would be in it's own way pandering just to a different audience. What would be the difference in getting a new technique as opposed to transforming? And without Zenkai boosts the characters would have to train normally which would take longer in-universe, they age up and die and then the series passes on from Goku, which again still doesn't feel right.

I'm think of the idea of it, but I need some thoughts.

[Shinda Forever]

Well, i think saiyajins had enough transformations, it is getting ridiculous to have always another one, a new technique would be creative and much better. The problem is that saiyajins were the only ones getting power ups, hopefully, Frieza can change the trend.

[Kishido]

No but please no recolors for the Saiyans

If anything make something unique as Super Saiyan 4... The whole concept of the tail and Oozaru was cool

[superfan2024]

Goku and Vegeta already said in the series that they were already reaching their limits, I think Goku's new form shown should be is ultimate form, or, at least I hope it is.

[Snakeway Skywalker]

Well, i think saiyajins had enough transformations, it is getting ridiculous to have always another one, a new technique would be creative and much better. The problem is that saiyajins were the only ones getting power ups, hopefully, Frieza can change the trend.

Agreed. Although I'm still holding out for a purple-haired Saiyan form (maybe that'll be Goten's SS2), but at this point, there are just too many transformations for Saiyans that it's gotten ridiculous. I mean, telling someone who has no experience with Dragon Ball about all the super saiyan forms, they look at you like you're crazy or just some extreme nerd.

Getting rid of transformations in general, I would say is a big no, because transformations have always been a big part of Dragon Ball. It's just that transformations lately have lost their meaning and don't wow us like they used to, so I would say they should definitely cut down on the number of transformations. They exhausted themselves on transformations in the Majin Buu Arc (which is still my favorite Z era, btw), and in Super, there seems to be no rules or logic on just how powerful the forms are anymore. Goku goes Blue and Frieza goes Golden just to show off, not when it's a last resort. So, give form changes to people deserve them, like Toriyama did back in the old days. I've used the word "transformations" so many times in this post that I'm getting annoyed by it.

[SonReggie]

I don't know about getting rid of them entirely, but they have lost their appeal somewhat.

The transformations don't really mean anything anymore. The overuse of them notwithstanding, they are rarely used in response to an immediate threat anymore. I mean, they even had Vegita turning SSB just because his baby was crying.......

[Lord Frieza]

Well they tried to do that with SSB and SBG but ended up keeping all the old forms anyway....and royally confusing everyone.

[Lionel]

Is it bizarre that I find Zarbon's beauty & beast reptilian transformation more intriguing than Super Saiyan at this point? We've been bombarded with so much Super Saiyan aryanism since the Cell arc that the show has turned into a chronicle of the life and trials of everyone's most vapid species of overrated juggernaut apes. Whenever any Saiyan sans Gohan is on the screen screeching at the top of their lungs as their hair morphs into some wacky flamboyant colour I can't help but roll my eyes. It's become so desensitising that I feel like supporting whomever they're fighting just so they can finally get knocked off their lofty perch. Give me Piccolo, Krillin, Tenshinhan or Hit any day. I find greater enjoyment in their screen time than I do Vegeta's egotistical Saiyan superiority complex or Goku inevitably siphoning off another battle. The Kaioken has more of my interest these days than whatever newfangled transformation the writers will excrete for the Saiyans.

Removing the forms wouldn't bother me personally. But like others have said, they have become such a huge staple of the series that it might be difficult to recover from the backlash from a number of fans who are invested primarily in the Saiyans

[avasatu]

Get rid of transformations that recolor or drastically alter appearance of protagonists. Keep the idea of the fighters ascending to new levels via unique or particularly strenuous types of training, but only modify the aura and a few small facets of the character's appearance. I really like what we're seeing from Goku's upcoming look as a representation of a new level of power, for example.

[Rubens]

I honestly thought they were going to get rid of the ssj forms back in the RoF - U6 tournament arcs and just keep it base -> ssj -> ssjblue, specially after Toriyama stated they could train their super saiyan form so the others (ssj2 and ssj3) wouldn't be necessary. Then they "brought back" the golden haired ssj forms in Trunks's arc... It just makes it confusing to exist such a panoply of transformations so it would be, in my opinion, a breath of fresh air. Although keeping the more familiar golden haired super saiyan around would still be ok.

[Shinda Forever]

Is it bizarre that I find Zarbon's beauty & beast reptilian transformation more intriguing than Super Saiyan at this point? We've been bombarded with so much Super Saiyan aryanism since the Cell arc that the show has turned into a chronicle of the life and trials of everyone's most vapid species of overrated juggernaut apes. Whenever any Saiyan sans Gohan is on the screen screeching at the top of their lungs as their hair morphs into some wacky flamboyant colour I can't help but roll my eyes. It's become so desensitising that I feel like supporting whomever they're fighting just so they can finally get knocked off their lofty perch. Give me Piccolo, Krillin, Tenshinhan or Hit any day. I find greater enjoyment in their screen time than I do Vegeta's egotistical Saiyan superiority complex or Goku inevitably siphoning off another battle. The Kaioken has more of my interest these days than whatever newfangled transformation the writers will excrete for the Saiyans.

Removing the forms wouldn't bother me personally. But like others have said, they have become such a huge staple of the series that it might be difficult to recover from the backlash from a number of fans who are invested primarily in the Saiyans

Perfect post! Indeed, we've been bombarded with so much Super Saiyan aryanism that is making people sick about it. Enough is enough.

[KingKaash]

People hate on DBGT but I thought SSJ4 was a brilliant transformation idea because it showed us something new by trying to control Great Ape and Golden Great Ape forms. And the design for SSJ4 is something we've never seen before. These recolors have been lazy to be completely honest and the power scaling has gone way off the grid. I know DB has never focused on power scaling to an exact mathematics but now it makes very little sense.

I think Gohan will break the trend by working on his Ultimate Form for the Saiyans. As for the others, I thought Hit was well done with his Time Skip technique if we are looking for new techniques

[GodVegetto91]

I 100% agree that the point has finally come to get totally rid of super saiyan transformations from now on. And just have this be Goku's last. Creating One Ultimate Super State for Goku to be in, where he will have all his God and Kaioken powers in Base. There comes a point where it just gets too ridiculous with all the different Super Saiyan Forms. Just make Goku's Base his Ultimate State from now on. This goes hand in hand with Old Kai's line back in the Buu arc.

[ChaosLordBrandon]

People can't beileve that they will ever do this right?

[Zagacious]

I think the reason it seems like there are too many forms is because of SS2 and SSG (red). Both of them are pretty much useless respective to the other forms. SS2 is more powerful than SS1, but barely any visual difference, and probably not a substantial power difference at this point in the series. SSG is now pointless since SSB exists and also made SS3 kind of pointless since it seems to drain energy faster than SSB. Effectively making 3 forms useless but still existing makes them more annoying and makes it feel like there are way too many, but there are basically only 2 now that any Saiyan uses, SS1/2 and SSB.

They can't get rid of forms completely when it's been such an important part of the series. I think only one more SS form above blue should be the max, a sort of perfection of god ki (white form would be good to me), but I would like to see many more forms from other characters. I really want to see the humans and piccolo get a sort of 'god form' by tapping into their god ki either via training with Whis or some other god interaction.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Id be fine with it as an end goal but not as something everyone can do.

Like...mastering all your power in base is the ultimate achievement (Not like Ultimate Gohan that we now know 100% is actually a transformation) and after that you can still improve but tansformations no longer matter.

[BWri]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=deskt ... B6jnvYy5do

He makes a few good points on it, but I feel like it just wouldn't be right... like it would be the series trying to be something it's not in a bad way. I feel like it would be in it's own way pandering just to a different audience. What would be the difference in getting a new technique as opposed to transforming? And without Zenkai boosts the characters would have to train normally which would take longer in-universe, they age up and die and then the series passes on from Goku, which again still doesn't feel right.

I'm think of the idea of it, but I need some thoughts.

I think that train has left the station. I thought the idea of introducing God Ki into the series was an effort to eliminate transformations, but it seems to have created several new ones. If Goku's new "form" is similar to Gohan's "ultimate" state then I could get behind that since its not a silly recolor, but I hope its the last of the Saiyan transformation line, at least for Goku.

But to specifically address what you said, the point of getting rid of transformations is getting rid of false hype and lazy writing. Because a transformation always only does ONE thing in Dragon Ball. It only makes you stronger. Toriyama hasn't even made a form that emphasizes speed yet. They're all one track. If the forms actually possessed various abilities that made them more useful than a temporary power boost then you'd get far less complaints when new ones only have slightly different cosmetic differences from the previous. What if they were forced to use different forms to rely on different advantages? I talk about it more here (http://belartscorner.blogspot.com/2016/ ... ma_11.html) if you want to get more of an idea why some of us are getting transformation fatigue. DBS is definitely beating the trope to death.

Right now, I'd say DBS is pandering to sell merchandise with all the various transformations. I think removing them or diminishing their importance is just the natural conclusion of the show. For fighters who are constantly perfecting their strength, wouldn't Goku and Vegeta want to be able to access all of their power without having to go through 10 different forms? The difference with a technique vs a form is like the difference between Bruce Lee and the Hulk. A transformation just makes you massively stronger (Hulk) and generally better in every way while a technique has a specific function and must be used with intelligence and good strategy. That's why I personally prefer new techniques over new forms. DBZ changed up what DB was by putting the focus on transformations, but DBS seems to be trying to do both.

[BWri]

Get rid of transformations that recolor or drastically alter appearance of protagonists. Keep the idea of the fighters ascending to new levels via unique or particularly strenuous types of training, but only modify the aura and a few small facets of the character's appearance. I really like what we're seeing from Goku's upcoming look as a representation of a new level of power, for example.

My ideal look for SSB would be a Saiyan with black hair (base), bluish eyes, and that sparking blue aura that SSB have. Just a subtle visualization that they've reached new heights with god ki. I wouldn't even call it a transformation, but god ki mastery or something like that.

[TheOne]

People hate on DBGT but I thought SSJ4 was a brilliant transformation idea because it showed us something new by trying to control Great Ape and Golden Great Ape forms. And the design for SSJ4 is something we've never seen before. These recolors have been lazy to be completely honest and the power scaling has gone way off the grid. I know DB has never focused on power scaling to an exact mathematics but now it makes very little sense.

I think Gohan will break the trend by working on his Ultimate Form for the Saiyans. As for the others, I thought Hit was well done with his Time Skip technique if we are looking for new techniques

I agree. SSJ4 was a great idea. Kinda wish they would bring it back.

[sintzu]

Transformations are a big selling point for the franchise so there's no way they're getting rid of them. All we can hope for is better ones in the future.