Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

[IntoTheFire]

Roshi getting revived at the end kind of ruined the scene tbh. It would have been much more emotional if he stayed dead.

I agree. Through that entire scene I was hoping they would let him stay dead. Until he is revived by dragon balls of course. It would have made the scene have far more impact.
That on the side it was a nice episode. I didn't expect to feel sad for Roshi like that. I was pretty surprised he didn't go out in this episode. I was certain he'd be elimanated. But they gave him a nice number of wins.

[Whatever]

Do you think he could pull a win against even the talisman user,much less Ganos?
Roshi did something in this episode that Yamcha could not even dream of doing.
In this episode Roshi showed exactly why he deserved to be in the team over Yamcha.

But how do you know that? Before Roshi came back in Super nobody believed he would ever fight again given he did nothing for the entire span of DBZ. So by that logic you can't count any character out at being a fighter again because prior to 2015 if anyone said Roshi would be a main fighter in Dragonball again people would have laughed.

I know that for a simple fact,Roshi won against an opponent who had him immobilized and against someone who was stronger than him(and kept getting stronger)due to his diverse moveset and fighting skills.
Something that Yamcha lacks.

[Li'l Lemmy]

the mafuba eliminating someone was awesome & it finally addresses that why Roshi is chosen over trunks/goten it was handled nicely

It doesn't address it at all. Well, not to me, anyway. The Mafuba is certainly unique, but anybody could have blown away an opponent with the Kamehameha. Even Trunks or Goten.

[The_Destroyer]

Do you think he could pull a win against even the talisman user,much less Ganos?
Roshi did something in this episode that Yamcha could not even dream of doing.
In this episode Roshi showed exactly why he deserved to be in the team over Yamcha.

But how do you know that? Before Roshi came back in Super nobody believed he would ever fight again given he did nothing for the entire span of DBZ. So by that logic you can't count any character out at being a fighter again because prior to 2015 if anyone said Roshi would be a main fighter in Dragonball again people would have laughed.

I know that for a simple fact,Roshi won against an opponent who had him immobilized and against someone who was stronger than him(and kept getting stronger)due to his diverse moveset and fighting skills.
Something that Yamcha lacks.

You know if they did have Yamcha fight and if they wanted him to win they would have had him use his moveset in a unique way to beat his opponent. They could upgrade his wolf fang fist just like Krillin's kienzan. Or hell they could have him use baseball based techniques. Don't act like there's nothing they can do with Yamcha.

And tbh the Ganos fight wasnt evrn won through skill. He tried to hypnotize him but failed. Then he just fired a kamehameha. More power than skill there imo.

[The gr]

the mafuba eliminating someone was awesome & it finally addresses that why Roshi is chosen over trunks/goten it was handled nicely

It doesn't address it at all. Well, not to me, anyway. The Mafuba is certainly unique, but anybody could have blown away an opponent with the Kamehameha. Even Trunks or Goten.

He mentioned that his comrades are stronger than but they are straight minded & predictable,he is chosen for this because he has variety & experience,that what I think the writer were saying & Goten/trunks are no different than team u7

[Li'l Lemmy]

Kind of hilarious to me that the same criticism leveled against Goten and Trunks for being too straightforward was placed on the U7 team en masse by its supposedly weakest member.

[FoolsGil]

Do you think he could pull a win against even the talisman user,much less Ganos?
Roshi did something in this episode that Yamcha could not even dream of doing.
In this episode Roshi showed exactly why he deserved to be in the team over Yamcha.

But how do you know that? Before Roshi came back in Super nobody believed he would ever fight again given he did nothing for the entire span of DBZ. So by that logic you can't count any character out at being a fighter again because prior to 2015 if anyone said Roshi would be a main fighter in Dragonball again people would have laughed.

I know that for a simple fact,Roshi won against an opponent who had him immobilized and against someone who was stronger than him(and kept getting stronger)due to his diverse moveset and fighting skills.
Something that Yamcha lacks.

How convenient Master Roshi gets 3 incompetent opponents, so folks like you can bash on Yamcha. It's groovy, it's hip.

[precita]

The lack of Buu, Trunks/Goten or Yamcha in the tournament kinda bothers me. Perhaps the tournament should have had 15 members from each team to allow the entire older cast to enter.

[sintzu]

Amazing episode. This proves Super can produce content that's up there with the franchise's best.

[Tombstone1988]

Things I Liked:

-Roshi's techniques are always interesting to me. I liked seeing them in action again.
-Roshi vs. Darkori was interesting, but a bit too short (a common theme this tournament)
-I liked 95% of the "Roshi is dead" scene.

Things I'm Mixed On:

-Roshi vs. Caway. I liked Caway and her ability, but I hated how Roshi basically threatened to rape her to make her ring herself out. I dislike gag ring-outs in general.
-I kind of found it funny how the Omni Kings are essentially toddlers that can't count, but it felt like massive padding having both do it.
-I liked seeing the Mafuba return and work, but shouldn't Roshi be dead or at least heavily fatigued? I mean, an old, weaker King Piccolo was the target of Roshi's Mafuba back in Dragon Ball and even then it failed and Roshi passed away. But it's fine now I guess?

Things I Disliked:

-Roshi vs. Ganos. Ganos is the captain for Universe 4, right? And Roshi is (supposedly) the weakest member of Universe 7. So how weak does Ganos have to be for Roshi to be able to even damage him!? If you think back to times like Krillin vs. Perfect Cell or the Z-Fighters vs. Super Perfect Cell, Roshi shouldn't even be able to touch this guy unless he's actually pathetically weak. Basically, three of Universe 4's fighters have to be really, REALLY weak or Roshi is somehow much, MUCH stronger than in Z for this episode to make a lick of sense in-universe.
-So I stated that I liked 95% of the "Roshi is dead" scene. I hated that they revived him. If he stayed dead, I could chalk this episode up to trying to give Roshi a good showing before his passing, and it would have left me in a better mood. However, they pulled the cheap revive card and soured the episode for me. I almost bought into the moment too, which left me even more salty. Not gonna lie, this left me a little irritated, and TV shows rarely upset me (seeing as they're fiction and all).


Overall, I feel like this episode isn't that bad, but it did several things that really irritated me. Pathetically bad power scaling, a stupid gag ring-out with Caway and a cheapened emotional scene really brought things down for me. If you get past these three things, it's a fine episode. I just couldn't get past them personally.

[Whatever]

But how do you know that? Before Roshi came back in Super nobody believed he would ever fight again given he did nothing for the entire span of DBZ. So by that logic you can't count any character out at being a fighter again because prior to 2015 if anyone said Roshi would be a main fighter in Dragonball again people would have laughed.

I know that for a simple fact,Roshi won against an opponent who had him immobilized and against someone who was stronger than him(and kept getting stronger)due to his diverse moveset and fighting skills.
Something that Yamcha lacks.

You know if they did have Yamcha fight and if they wanted him to win they would have had him use his moveset in a unique way to beat his opponent. They could upgrade his wolf fang fist just like Krillin's kienzan. Or hell they could have him use baseball based techniques. Don't act like there's nothing they can do with Yamcha.

And tbh the Ganos fight wasnt evrn won through skill. He tried to hypnotize him but failed. Then he just fired a kamehameha. More power than skill there imo.

The wolf fang fist is just a regular melee,it has no special properties unlike the kienzan.Yamcha's moveset is very poor compared to the other humans.
Roshi's moveset did not get upgraded anyways,he just used what he already had.
Roshi predicted Gano's moves which is why he managed to land some good hits on him,he then hypnotized Ganos,Ganos then had to DAMAGE himself in order to not lose,then Roshi blasted the damaged Ganos.Only the last part was not skill.

But how do you know that? Before Roshi came back in Super nobody believed he would ever fight again given he did nothing for the entire span of DBZ. So by that logic you can't count any character out at being a fighter again because prior to 2015 if anyone said Roshi would be a main fighter in Dragonball again people would have laughed.

I know that for a simple fact,Roshi won against an opponent who had him immobilized and against someone who was stronger than him(and kept getting stronger)due to his diverse moveset and fighting skills.
Something that Yamcha lacks.

How convenient Master Roshi gets 3 incompetent opponents, so folks like you can bash on Yamcha. It's groovy, it's hip.

Then tell me how Yamcha could beat those 3 incompetent opponents,i guess you cannot so you resorted to calling me a hater instead.So groovy.

[Li'l Lemmy]

How convenient Master Roshi gets 3 incompetent opponents, so folks like you can bash on Yamcha. It's groovy, it's hip.

Then tell me how Yamcha could beat those 3 incompetent opponents,i guess you cannot so you resorted to calling me a hater instead.So groovy.

Cone on, guys, be chill.

[FoolsGil]

I know that for a simple fact,Roshi won against an opponent who had him immobilized and against someone who was stronger than him(and kept getting stronger)due to his diverse moveset and fighting skills.
Something that Yamcha lacks.

You know if they did have Yamcha fight and if they wanted him to win they would have had him use his moveset in a unique way to beat his opponent. They could upgrade his wolf fang fist just like Krillin's kienzan. Or hell they could have him use baseball based techniques. Don't act like there's nothing they can do with Yamcha.

And tbh the Ganos fight wasnt evrn won through skill. He tried to hypnotize him but failed. Then he just fired a kamehameha. More power than skill there imo.

The wolf fang fist is just a regular melee,it has no special properties unlike the kienzan.Yamcha's moveset is very poor compared to the other humans.
Roshi's moveset did not get upgraded anyways,he just used what he already had.
Roshi predicted Gano's moves which is why he managed to land some good hits on him,he then hypnotized Ganos,Ganos then had to DAMAGE himself in order to not lose,then Roshi blasted the damaged Ganos.Only the last part was not skill.

I know that for a simple fact,Roshi won against an opponent who had him immobilized and against someone who was stronger than him(and kept getting stronger)due to his diverse moveset and fighting skills.
Something that Yamcha lacks.

How convenient Master Roshi gets 3 incompetent opponents, so folks like you can bash on Yamcha. It's groovy, it's hip.

Then tell me how Yamcha could beat those 3 incompetent opponents,i guess you cannot so you resorted to calling me a hater instead.So groovy.

Yes, it is groovy. You hater. But since you asked, Yamcha could just overpower them. Yamcha surpassed Master Roshi in Strength and Speed a long time ago, and that was before he trained with King Kai, something that Master Roshi hasn't done.

How's that for ya?

[nato25]

Things I Liked:

-Roshi's techniques are always interesting to me. I liked seeing them in action again.
-Roshi vs. Darkori was interesting, but a bit too short (a common theme this tournament)
-I liked 95% of the "Roshi is dead" scene.

Things I'm Mixed On:

-Roshi vs. Caway. I liked Caway and her ability, but I hated how Roshi basically threatened to rape her to make her ring herself out. I dislike gag ring-outs in general.
-I kind of found it funny how the Omni Kings are essentially toddlers that can't count, but it felt like massive padding having both do it.
-I liked seeing the Mafuba return and work, but shouldn't Roshi be dead or at least heavily fatigued? I mean, an old, weaker King Piccolo was the target of Roshi's Mafuba back in Dragon Ball and even then it failed and Roshi passed away. But it's fine now I guess?

Things I Disliked:

-Roshi vs. Ganos. Ganos is the captain for Universe 4, right? And Roshi is (supposedly) the weakest member of Universe 7. So how weak does Ganos have to be for Roshi to be able to even damage him!? If you think back to times like Krillin vs. Perfect Cell or the Z-Fighters vs. Super Perfect Cell, Roshi shouldn't even be able to touch this guy unless he's actually pathetically weak. Basically, three of Universe 4's fighters have to be really, REALLY weak or Roshi is somehow much, MUCH stronger than in Z for this episode to make a lick of sense in-universe.
-So I stated that I liked 95% of the "Roshi is dead" scene. I hated that they revived him. If he stayed dead, I could chalk this episode up to trying to give Roshi a good showing before his passing, and it would have left me in a better mood. However, they pulled the cheap revive card and soured the episode for me. I almost bought into the moment too, which left me even more salty. Not gonna lie, this left me a little irritated, and TV shows rarely upset me (seeing as they're fiction and all).


Overall, I feel like this episode isn't that bad, but it did several things that really irritated me. Pathetically bad power scaling, a stupid gag ring-out with Caway and a cheapened emotional scene really brought things down for me. If you get past these three things, it's a fine episode. I just couldn't get past them personally.

I agree with most of what you're saying but I think you have to understand these guys aren't all Cell level. I understand it's a common theme nearly every character is simply stronger as time goes on and Roshi definitely seems like he's stepped it up since he last fought (which seriously would be all the way back in Dragon Ball). A different universe may never have experienced a threat as large as Cell, especially an unpaired to Universe 7 universe, which could be the reason they are still around and never gotten stronger. In a wierd way every threat Universe 7 has faced has forced them to become stronger and it helping them now, so thank you Piccolo, Vegeta, Frieza and Cell.

I'm 50/50 on Roshi surviving. I think him dying could have been more impactful but they almost got as much emotion out of the scene that a death would have provided so I'm OK with it. The only bad thing now will be Roshi is that exhausted he is essentially dead weight, meaning we're basically waiting for his elimination. Maybe would have been better if someone took advantage of his weakened state and eliminated him. It least this won't draw comparisons to the awful Piccolo death in the RoF arc.

[The_Destroyer]

I know that for a simple fact,Roshi won against an opponent who had him immobilized and against someone who was stronger than him(and kept getting stronger)due to his diverse moveset and fighting skills.
Something that Yamcha lacks.

You know if they did have Yamcha fight and if they wanted him to win they would have had him use his moveset in a unique way to beat his opponent. They could upgrade his wolf fang fist just like Krillin's kienzan. Or hell they could have him use baseball based techniques. Don't act like there's nothing they can do with Yamcha.

And tbh the Ganos fight wasnt evrn won through skill. He tried to hypnotize him but failed. Then he just fired a kamehameha. More power than skill there imo.

The wolf fang fist is just a regular melee,it has no special properties unlike the kienzan.Yamcha's moveset is very poor compared to the other humans.
Roshi's moveset did not get upgraded anyways,he just used what he already had.
Roshi predicted Gano's moves which is why he managed to land some good hits on him,he then hypnotized Ganos,Ganos then had to DAMAGE himself in order to not lose,then Roshi blasted the damaged Ganos.Only the last part was not skill.

I know that for a simple fact,Roshi won against an opponent who had him immobilized and against someone who was stronger than him(and kept getting stronger)due to his diverse moveset and fighting skills.
Something that Yamcha lacks.

How convenient Master Roshi gets 3 incompetent opponents, so folks like you can bash on Yamcha. It's groovy, it's hip.

Then tell me how Yamcha could beat those 3 incompetent opponents,i guess you cannot so you resorted to calling me a hater instead.So groovy.

And a regular melee is not interesting? Almost every attack that everyone uses is just some ki blast. Would it no be interesting to someone use a melee based move for one?
Yeah true he predicted his movements but he still won due to power. Being able to dodge someone's attacks requires you to be faster than them, therfore they are more powerful. Like FoolsGill said, Yamcha is supposed to be stronger than Roshi, therefore he would overpower the likes of Caway and Ganos. The fact is majority of this tournament is fodder and Yamcha could beat most of these opponents.

[Ki Breaker]

Such a fantastic episode hasn't been there in a loong time..
It's a full 9.5/10..
Goku was actually crying..
I too got emotional too when Roshi was supposedly dead and Goku was frantically trying to wake him up.. The feels..
Roshi fights like a true boss, watch his fan following go up now..

All in all a great episode

[Zagacious]

Yes, it is groovy. You hater. But since you asked, Yamcha could just overpower them. Yamcha surpassed Master Roshi in Strength and Speed a long time ago, and that was before he trained with King Kai, something that Master Roshi hasn't done.

As much as I appreciate the effort they put into giving Roshi an awesome performance, it's true it probably should have ended with the fight with Ganos. Someone else a little more powerful should have had to intervene like Piccolo or Tien. Roshi is an awesome character, but to say the strongest member of U4 is eliminated by a human (an epic level human, of course) is kind of surprising considering how relatively weak Humans have shown to be. While Nink wasn't very impressive, he was able to get Goku base form in body lock very briefly. I mean I guess it's possible that Universe 4 is generally on the same level or weaker than the original Saiyans were.

Even though I think Roshi has more strategic skill than Yamcha, I do believe Yamcha would have enough raw power to do more than Roshi would. Yamcha might struggle with opponents like Dercori, so it's not a mistake to choose Roshi over Yamcha when you already have many fighters with god level of power, but in raw power Yamcha would definitely outmatch him. Yamcha surpassed Roshi in Dragon Ball, fought Saibamen, trained with King Kai, and fought Cell juniors. He's trained in Otherworld again during the Buu saga. I believe he also trained in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber during Cell but unsure. That's enough to put Yamcha significant level above Roshi. Tien has also done those same things so he should also be way above Roshi in power.

[The_Destroyer]

Yes, it is groovy. You hater. But since you asked, Yamcha could just overpower them. Yamcha surpassed Master Roshi in Strength and Speed a long time ago, and that was before he trained with King Kai, something that Master Roshi hasn't done.

As much as I appreciate the effort they put into giving Roshi an awesome performance, it's true it probably should have ended with the fight with Ganos. Someone else a little more powerful should have had to intervene like Piccolo or Tien. Roshi is an awesome character, but to say the strongest member of U4 is eliminated by a human (an epic level human, of course) is kind of surprising considering how relatively weak Humans have shown to be. While Nink wasn't very impressive, he was able to get Goku base form in body lock very briefly. I mean I guess it's possible that Universe 4 is generally on the same level or weaker than the original Saiyans were.

Even though I think Roshi has more strategic skill than Yamcha, I do believe Yamcha would have enough raw power to do more than Roshi would. Yamcha might struggle with opponents like Dercori, so it's not a mistake to choose Roshi over Yamcha when you already have many fighters with god level of power, but in raw power Yamcha would definitely outmatch him. Yamcha surpassed Roshi in Dragon Ball, fought Saibamen, and trained with King Kai. I believe he also trained in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber but unsure. That's enough to put Yamcha significant level above Roshi.

He never trained in the time chamber.

[Lionel]

Really enjoyable episode. Unlike certain other characters who prefer to verbally flaunt their alleged experience without really physically demonstrating it, Roshi proved his worth time and again by overcoming his inherent hormonal weaknesses, the eccentric fighters with strange abilities that may have confounded his teammates, and taking on a trasformational fighter with quirks that are akin to Hit and the Saiyans' knack for continual progressive increases in power. We got to see classic abilities like the Mafuba and Hypnosis. Hypnosis! Roshi only ever used that ability once before in canon and it was against Goku during the 21st tournament. Praise should go to Ganos for using his own electrical technique to stimulate his consciousness before succumbing to the effects of the ability.

I actually felt some semblance of emotional connection to Roshi -- even Goku wasn't all too bad this episode since we got to see that tender part of him that's usually reserved for those like his grandfather and moments of traumatic experience. Senescence didn't halt his march forward to seizing life, throwing away his own limitations and marching forward. I'm not upset that he got three eliminations and was able to stay in the competition, unlike Krillin. I feel like Roshi has earned his placement here. Beerus of all people has a whole new respect for the old guy. What does that tell you? I still take issue with his radical behind the scenes power powercreeping, but I'm more interested in the character right now than his strength. The episode overall was really enjoyable. Kudos to Toei for giving some meaningful and enthralling screentime to one of the smaller heroes of U7.

[Tombstone1988]

I agree with most of what you're saying but I think you have to understand these guys aren't all Cell level. I understand it's a common theme nearly every character is simply stronger as time goes on and Roshi definitely seems like he's stepped it up since he last fought (which seriously would be all the way back in Dragon Ball). A different universe may never have experienced a threat as large as Cell, especially an unpaired to Universe 7 universe, which could be the reason they are still around and never gotten stronger. In a wierd way every threat Universe 7 has faced has forced them to become stronger and it helping them now, so thank you Piccolo, Vegeta, Frieza and Cell.

I'm 50/50 on Roshi surviving. I think him dying could have been more impactful but they almost got as much emotion out of the scene that a death would have provided so I'm OK with it. The only bad thing now will be Roshi is that exhausted he is essentially dead weight, meaning we're basically waiting for his elimination. Maybe would have been better if someone took advantage of his weakened state and eliminated him. It least this won't draw comparisons to the awful Piccolo death in the RoF arc.

Oh I know, I didn't mean to imply I thought every fighter should be Cell-level or above. If the first half of this episode had been Roshi vs. Darkori and the second half replaced Ganos with Caway, I think it would have been a better episode overall. It's the fact that Ganos, the captain of Universe 4 (who should be one of if not the strongest member of their team) was chosen to go up against Roshi (supposedly the weakest member of Universe 7) that really irks me. This implies that Universe 4 is so weak overall that even their team captain is fodder. That, to me, doesn't make for very interesting storytelling.