But seriously, how did the Falcouner soundtrack even make it to air?

[ABED]

I think the only "snobs" are those who come up with reasons outside of, I don't know, people like something cause they actually like it and think it's good?

Like what you like. We aren't saying you can't like it, just that it doesn't go with DB. Yeah, there are a few here that have said the only reason anyone likes it is nostalgia, but in your case, I think you can't seem to understand there are in fact those that like it mainly because of their fondness for what they grew up with.

[Kokonoe]

I think the only "snobs" are those who come up with reasons outside of, I don't know, people like something cause they actually like it and think it's good?

Like what you like. We aren't saying you can't like it, just that it doesn't go with DB. Yeah, there are a few here that have said the only reason anyone likes it is nostalgia, but in your case, I think you can't seem to understand there are in fact those that like it mainly because of their fondness for what they grew up with.

Well feel free to point me out to those who enjoy it mainly for nostalgia.

[thaman91]

People are free to like Kikuchi's "music", and they're not wrong for doing so. But there are many people who convince themselves that they like it simply because it's the original & because they wish to be seen by their internet peers as having a more cultured and authentic taste in entertainment.

....I wasn't being entirely serious with that by the way. But that's how quite a lot of these anti-Faulconer posts sound.

Personally speaking, yeah some of it does sound cheaply produced. But on the other hand, that doesn't really matter as long as the music itself is good, and it is. And there's so much variety in the Faulconer score that it can basically handle any type of moment. It can be emotional, humorous, peaceful, contemplative, dramatic, and even epic. One of the biggest misconceptions about it is that it's all just over-the-top action music that's trying to be big and bombastic all the time. That's simply not true. It's actually quite varied. And it's use of leitmotifs deeply connects it to the visuals & dialogue.

Regarding the Kikuchi score, I think it's good, especially in Dragon Ball. But by the end of Dragon Ball, I started getting quite irritated with how repetitive it was getting. And once we hit Z, I really just couldn't stand it anymore. The compositions themselves are pretty good I guess, but they're just not varied enough. I guess the Kikuchi score evokes the Wuxia genre better, but...eh, I don't really care about that. I'm mostly judging based on its own merits and how well it fits the visuals and dialogue. Is it enhancing them, or is it being intrusive and irritating? For a lot of Z, I felt that the Kikuchi score was the latter (and yeah, I know most here will probably feel that way about the Faulconer score).

[Bryesque]

They use the same footage, but the Funimation dub with the Faulconer score loses a lot of the drama and intensity that the Kikuchi score creates. As has been said before the lack of silence takes away a lot of the atmosphere. Even during fights where people claim Faulconer excells you don't get the feel of an old samurai movie with two warriors staring one another down if the score gives no time to take a breather.

Really well put, and sums up a lot of my problems with the Faulconer score -- it's just always on. There's zero subtlety to it, it never stops, and it just feels overbearing and obnoxious on the whole. (To me, at least.)

And you still cling to the idea that the end of DB isn't the same as the beginning of DBZ. The comic is all just Dragon Ball. The two episodes aired a week apart and don't necessitate so radical a shift in the style of music.

Exactly. DBZ feels like a natural progression on, and expansion from, DB. Even when it became increasingly fights-and-powering-up-centric, Dragon Ball is still an adventure and an exploration. More of the world and its powers reveal themselves steadily over its run. At no point did Z feel like a separate entity to me.

[ABED]

That's simply not true. It's actually quite varied. And it's use of leitmotifs deeply connects it to the visuals & dialogue.

Problem is that I don't remember any of it. Almost all of It basically blends together. There's a lot of variety, but variety is a means to an end, not the end in itself.

Well feel free to point me out to those who enjoy it mainly for nostalgia.

We get it, you think we're snobs and elitist and we think you who enjoy it don't understand the essence of the show. Around and around we go.

[Bardo117]

Here's another thing to consider... That Japanese BGM has NOT aged well... I still love it to death, but at least some of the Falcouner music can be played and it'll still sound just as awesome as it did years ago. There's some real rock influenced, Depeche Mode/Radiohead/Experimental type music in there that is actually a good listen.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woHtuw_xtcc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXJKr4bnGxk


I mean, at best there's only about 15 tracks worth listening to in the entire franchise, and most of them are found in the Cell Saga and beyond, but it's aged much much better than the Japanese BGM. I admit, I can't stand the stupid Falcouner music from the Saiyan Saga and Cell Saga, but beyond that it's actually pretty good.


This is a tired example, I know most of our minds are made up already but it's worth posting my opinion for the sake of contrast between the two groups.

[Bardo117]

Here's another thing to consider... That Japanese BGM has NOT aged well... I still love it to death, but at least some of the Falcouner music can be played and it'll still sound just as awesome as it did years ago. There's some real rock influenced, Depeche Mode/Radiohead/Experimental type music in there that is actually a good listen.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woHtuw_xtcc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXJKr4bnGxk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lGuDTRilKQ


I mean, at best there's only about 15 tracks worth listening to in the entire franchise, and most of them are found in the Cell Saga and beyond, but it's aged much much better than the Japanese BGM. I admit, I can't stand the stupid Falcouner music from the Saiyan Saga and Cell Saga, but beyond that it's actually pretty good.


This is a tired example, I know most of our minds are made up already but it's worth posting my opinion for the sake of contrast between the two groups.

[ABED]

That Japanese BGM has NOT aged well... I still love it to death, but at least some of the Falcouner music can be played and it'll still sound just as awesome as it did years ago. There's some real rock influenced, Depeche Mode/Radiohead/Experimental type music in there that is actually a good listen.

The Faulconer score didn't sound contemporary even then. I don't know what is with this obsession for things to sound modern. Kikuchi's score fits the aesthetic of the show. I've never listened to the bands you named, but they don't go with DB.

[8000 Saiyan]

And the OP is 100% correct on the point that the Faulconer music IS wildly amateurish, unprofessional, and unfit for public airing on a major TV show. I'll go a step further and say that oftentimes it sounds just plain tacky, chintzy, and at times - when its not invoking dumbfuck G.I. Joe/Transformers-esque action cartoons - it can also be disturbingly akin to the score for early 90s Cinemax softcore porn movie or show. There isn't even a contest between it and its Japanese competition (any of them, but especially Kikuchi's).

Like it all you want personally, but to seriously insist that it is on the same level of professional craft as its Japanese forebearer is absolutely invoking the use of nostalgia goggles. Its not a personal insult if you do like it: I don't care what anyone does or doesn't like, more power to you. Its just a matter of realistic perspective for what we're talking about here.

I can't think of anything in Faulconer's score that reminds me of the soundtracks of the 80's Transformers and G.I. Joe cartoons. Unless you're talking about the Transformers animated movie.

[ABED]

It would be interesting to see the Venn diagram of people who prefer the Faulconer score and those who don't understand that DB isn't a superhero show about characters out to save the day.

[8000 Saiyan]

I can't bare to listen to this dreary Japanese music anymore. I don't think the show would have been nearly as popular in the West without the Faulconer score.

I hate when people say this because it's not true. DBZ did well without Faulconer's score in 1998 and was one of the most popular CN show at the time. If Toonami never play re-runs of the Saban era dub then it's unlikely that Funimation would have dub the rest of the series. I think if DBZ still had the original Japanese music in the dub at the time, it would still do well on TV.

I never said it wouldn't have done well, so I don't know why a bunch of people have replied to me saying so.

But the Faulconer score is the more popular score with fans in the United States, significantly so. So of course without it it would not have been as popular as it now is.

Getting rid of the dull, dreary, outdated and repetitive score and replacing it with a more suitable one was the right thing for them to do.

Faulconer's score sounds more dated to me than Kikuchi's score.

[Bardo117]

It would be interesting to see the Venn diagram of people who prefer the Faulconer score and those who don't understand that DB isn't a superhero show about characters out to save the day.

Stop trying to bring Dragon ball out of what is truly is, a children's cartoon. Of course it's about the good guys saving the day, it always has been and always will be. New threat arrives, and the Z fighters defend the earth. They're literally Avengers, the best fighters in the world assembled into a team.

[Bryesque]

Every score is of its time, like all art is of its time -- the styles and technology of the era will always influence the end product. But I think Kikuchi's score is pretty timeless overall. It's all natural, "real" instruments and that kind of music not only ages much better as a rule, but in this case also suits the series as a whole perfectly. Faulconer's synthy/artificial-sounding, '90s-rock-style score was automatically going to sound dated way faster, and IMO, its very different style just feels forced compared to how natural Kikuchi's fit with the material.

That dub with the Faulconer score is an altered version of the show in every way. There's no shame in preferring it, that's fine, tastes are subjective and nobody is "wrong" here. But I think, when you watch the two versions, it's very obvious that one is the original intention/vision and the other is an entirely different beast. Because ultimately, Kikuchi's score was created in tandem with the animation. It was made for it, as a key part of the creative foundation of the show. It's very hard to replace that outright and have the replacement feel like it's truly designed for that same purpose.

[ABED]

It would be interesting to see the Venn diagram of people who prefer the Faulconer score and those who don't understand that DB isn't a superhero show about characters out to save the day.

Stop trying to bring Dragon ball out of what is truly is, a children's cartoon. Of course it's about the good guys saving the day, it always has been and always will be. New threat arrives, and the Z fighters defend the earth. They're literally Avengers, the best fighters in the world assembled into a team.

You are proving my point. They aren't The Avengers. Even though Tony screws up and creates Ultron (or Pym if we are going with the comics), he does so with the intent of saving the world. They actively monitor potential threats to stop them. Goku and Co. aren't out to save the day. They let threats go in order to have a good fight. It's a kids' show, but how does that imply it's a superhero show? Go back and rewatch the original show or read the manga and you will see it's about martial artists trying to become better martial artists. It's not about saving innocent people.

[Bardo117]

It would be interesting to see the Venn diagram of people who prefer the Faulconer score and those who don't understand that DB isn't a superhero show about characters out to save the day.

Stop trying to bring Dragon ball out of what is truly is, a children's cartoon. Of course it's about the good guys saving the day, it always has been and always will be. New threat arrives, and the Z fighters defend the earth. They're literally Avengers, the best fighters in the world assembled into a team.

You are proving my point. They aren't The Avengers. Even though Tony screws up and creates Ultron (or Pym if we are going with the comics), he does so with the intent of saving the world. They actively monitor potential threats to stop them. Goku and Co. aren't out to save the day. They let threats go in order to have a good fight. It's a kids' show, but how does that imply it's a superhero show? Go back and rewatch the original show or read the manga and you will see it's about martial artists trying to become better martial artists. It's not about saving innocent people.

In that, you are very right. Original Dragonball is just about a kid on a journey to become a better fighter. But Z is literally named after the Z Fighters, who are assembled to fight the threats of the earth. They saved earth from the Saiyans, the Galaxy from Freeza, the planet from Cell, and the Universe from Buu. Not because they were looking for a good fight but because evil invaded earth, and if Goku doesn't do it, WHO WILL?!?!

[Bansho64]

In that, you are very right. Original Dragonball is just about a kid on a journey to become a better fighter. But Z is literally named after the Z Fighters, who are assembled to fight the threats of the earth. They saved earth from the Saiyans, the Galaxy from Freeza, the planet from Cell, and the Universe from Buu. Not because they were looking for a good fight but because evil invaded earth, and if Goku doesn't do it, WHO WILL?!?!

One of the biggest threats in Z was fought because they wanted a good fight. They allowed Gero to create the cyborgs explicitly because they wanted to fight them. They weren't out to save the world and simply picked the dumbest way to go about it.

Yes, a lot of the time, they are out to save themselves and happen to save the planet in the process. But it really isn't a superhero show like you're putting it.

[Bardo117]

Why is everybody so hesitant to call this a superhero type story or admit that its targeted demographic age is 12-17 years old?

[Bansho64]

Why is everybody so hesitant to call this a superhero type story or admit that its targeted demographic age is 12-17 years old?

Since when has anybody denied the demographic? And since when did 2-3 people = "Everybody"?

[Bardo117]

Why is everybody so hesitant to call this a superhero type story or admit that its targeted demographic age is 12-17 years old?

Since when has anybody denied the demographic?

Your 2000th post! Congrats!

[Bryesque]

In that, you are very right. Original Dragonball is just about a kid on a journey to become a better fighter. But Z is literally named after the Z Fighters, who are assembled to fight the threats of the earth.

Not to be the "um, actually" guy, but the Z in Dragon Ball Z comes from Akira Toriyama (then) intending it to be the final run of the series, as Z is the last letter in the alphabet. My understanding is the term "Z-Fighters" came after the fact, and even then it was more of a marketing/shorthand term and not something they actually called themselves or even really referenced in the show itself (aside from once in a dream, I believe).

Originally, the "team" assembled for more personal reasons -- Goku and Piccolo teamed up to save Gohan, then learned about the Saiyans targeting Earth and had to defend their home. Once Vegeta was dealt with, they travelled to Namek to use their Dragon Balls in order to resurrect their friends, then got pulled into a bigger threat once they were there. Obviously they'll step up and do what's right when it's needed, usually when they run across some evil in progress, but generally their motivations are more personal (or even selfish) to begin with, rather than them actively looking for evil to vanquish like superheroes do.