Has Super written itself into a corner?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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ItsIonic
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Has Super written itself into a corner?

Post by ItsIonic » Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:27 pm

While I have no doubt that Super will certainly continue after the Tournament of Power arc, I can't really see where Super can go from here. I realize people probably have said that in the past about other arcs, but since we're actually at the point of universes potentially being erased, where can we go from here?

Right now, the strongest of the mortals are barely at god of destruction levels. The next tier would be angles, which admittedly is a fairly sizable gap if I recall correctly, but can Super comfortably ride out the rest of its lifespan in that gap? Surpassing angels wouldn't be too far of a stretch but after that, what? Where can threats that surpass angels even come from? The destroyed universes? Even more multiverses? Realistically we could potentially expect them to finally pass the torch to the next generation, but does that even matter? If someone like Goku, or even Gohan is there, the tension is basically dead. What can they do?

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Re: Has Super written itself into a corner?

Post by dbgtFO » Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:51 pm

I think the erased universes will be returned and then the next plotline might just deal with the exempted Universes.
If Zeno really is the highest God, then the only major deity we are missing is Zalama, the creator of the Super Dragon Balls, so maybe s/he can be explored.
I agree that as we are getting closer and closer to Goku and Vegeta reaching the level of a GoD, it becomes increasingly harder to give them a new challenge, so much so I'm cool with one or two more arcs and then some kind of retooling of the show?
It's definitely going to be interesting to see where they can take it from here.

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Re: Has Super written itself into a corner?

Post by Zagacious » Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:43 pm

They could continue the series after Goku, Frieza, and/or Vegeta become Gods of Destruction or possibly some new higher position while the new generation continues on. You'd still see those 3 now and again for certain plots but not every episode.

Other than becoming gods or Zeno himself they can't go a whole lot further than the Angels level of power.

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Re: Has Super written itself into a corner?

Post by Kinokima » Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:50 pm

Don't worry they will find stronger characters and stronger power ups... :lol:

I have no doubt in Dragon Ball's ability to suspend disbelief in this way.

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Re: Has Super written itself into a corner?

Post by sintzu » Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:57 pm

A visit to planet Sadal has been brought up more than once so we can get an arc about that. We haven't seen anything form the strongest 4 universes so that's another tournament they can do. They can do what the games are doing and go with the time patrol and bring in things like hell and demons. We could get a remake of the shadow dragons arc with Namakian dragons or super shadow dragons from the super dragon balls.

I do agree that things are getting a bit out of hand but there are still roads they can take like the above.
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Re: Has Super written itself into a corner?

Post by Kinokima » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:14 pm

sintzu wrote:A visit to planet Sadal has been brought up more than once so we can get an arc about that. We haven't seen anything form the strongest 4 universes so that's another tournament they can do. They can do what the games are doing and go with the time patrol and bring in things like hell and demons. We could get a remake of the shadow dragons arc with Namakian dragons or super shadow dragons from the super dragon balls.

I do agree that things are getting a bit out of hand but there are still roads they can take like the above.

I want them to use the other 4 Universes for sure but please no more tournaments for awhile.

But yeah I can’t see them mention 4 other Universes and then have them be ignored.

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Re: Has Super written itself into a corner?

Post by Acetona » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:55 pm

sintzu wrote:A visit to planet Sadal has been brought up more than once so we can get an arc about that.
I doubt we'll get anything different from Copy Vegeta arc. It won't be lenghty and they will somehow try to include some lame ass villain...
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Re: Has Super written itself into a corner?

Post by Kanious » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:04 pm

I think that Goku will not surpass Jiren's power and will not get to the level of a god of destruction YET, even if he defeats Jiren.

There is a lot of room to work in Super... and after getting to the level of a god of destruction, Goku and Vegeta can become even stronger, to the level of Jiren, then to the level of low tier angels and other characters in the multiverse that may be at that level.

I thought that Black/Zamasu could not ever be topped, but now we have Jiren. I think it will be easy for the writers to create new stories with stronger and stronger characters.

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Re: Has Super written itself into a corner?

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:04 am

ItsIonic wrote:While I have no doubt that Super will certainly continue after the Tournament of Power arc, I can't really see where Super can go from here. I realize people probably have said that in the past about other arcs, but since we're actually at the point of universes potentially being erased, where can we go from here?

Right now, the strongest of the mortals are barely at god of destruction levels. The next tier would be angles, which admittedly is a fairly sizable gap if I recall correctly, but can Super comfortably ride out the rest of its lifespan in that gap? Surpassing angels wouldn't be too far of a stretch but after that, what? Where can threats that surpass angels even come from? The destroyed universes? Even more multiverses? Realistically we could potentially expect them to finally pass the torch to the next generation, but does that even matter? If someone like Goku, or even Gohan is there, the tension is basically dead. What can they do?
They don't need to encounter threats higher more powerful than Jiren, if they write villains with horizontal progression like Hit, then I don't see the need to encounter any enemy stronger than Jiren.

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Re: Has Super written itself into a corner?

Post by ssj3kakarot » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:09 am

Though I don't think they've written themselves into a corner, I think what will be a tremendous help to the franchise is if they are able to establish some sort of power scale and adhere to it. Not only that, but also put a little more effort in establishing characters. A good example is how they did Hit. I feel with the u6 Sayians, they are trying too hard to make them useful, at the expense of making a mockery of the franchises SSB form. It was a form stated by Goku that he could have never dreamed of such power before, and then poof, everyone is that strong. Sorry, back on topic.

I think removing Goku and Vegeta from a crisis is a good way to let the B-team get some spot light and progress as characters and in power. You could have Goku and Vegeta off doing something else at the time, I dunno. You don't have to magically make the power differences go away to have good fights.
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Re: Has Super written itself into a corner?

Post by Metalwario64 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:20 am

As I've said a long time ago, they can always explore more abstract concepts like alternate dimensions, realities, or completely higher planes of existence. Maybe go in to crazy Star Trek territory. :lol:
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Re: Has Super written itself into a corner?

Post by omaro34 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:24 am

Who knows? Perhaps a being higher than Zeno would appear at the end of the ToP and scare everyone much like Zeno's first appearance in the universe six tournament.
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Re: Has Super written itself into a corner?

Post by sangofe » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:12 am

ItsIonic wrote:While I have no doubt that Super will certainly continue after the Tournament of Power arc, I can't really see where Super can go from here. I realize people probably have said that in the past about other arcs, but since we're actually at the point of universes potentially being erased, where can we go from here?

Right now, the strongest of the mortals are barely at god of destruction levels. The next tier would be angles, which admittedly is a fairly sizable gap if I recall correctly, but can Super comfortably ride out the rest of its lifespan in that gap? Surpassing angels wouldn't be too far of a stretch but after that, what? Where can threats that surpass angels even come from? The destroyed universes? Even more multiverses? Realistically we could potentially expect them to finally pass the torch to the next generation, but does that even matter? If someone like Goku, or even Gohan is there, the tension is basically dead. What can they do?
Time will tell. Also don't forget the universes that were too strong to be in the tournament.

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Re: Has Super written itself into a corner?

Post by Saturnine » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:12 am

- An entire arc about Goku/Vegeta challenging GoDs
- make an angel villain
- get Goku and Vegeta tied up, so they can't respond to a threat, leaving Gohan & co. to do it

Can't think of anything else :D

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Re: Has Super written itself into a corner?

Post by Meshack » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:27 am

Gods aren’t the only characters in Dragonball. Dragonball has always been that they’re more powerful people out there. Even if they continue doing the god thing, they could easily introduce more gods. Wih how easily the Hakaishin and Angels were introduced, introducing more couldn’t be so difficult.

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Re: Has Super written itself into a corner?

Post by Kinokima » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:39 am

Saturnine wrote:- An entire arc about Goku/Vegeta challenging GoDs
- make an angel villain
- get Goku and Vegeta tied up, so they can't respond to a threat, leaving Gohan & co. to do it

Can't think of anything else :D

Personally I think taking Goku and Vegeta out of the equation (maybe even Gohan) could make an interesting story.

DBZ used to do this too. At least in the early part of the story Goku was always taken out and only appeared later on to save the day. Allowing the other characters to try although fail to do things. They had to hold out until Goku arrived which was interesting (and I guess they did this with BOG and ROF)

Although I would like to take it further and have it so Goku’s nd Vegeta have to be rescued by the other characters.

Don’t see the series ever doing this of course but it could be interesting. And yeah it might seem impossible that Goku & Vegeta would ever be put in this situation but nothing is impossible.

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Re: Has Super written itself into a corner?

Post by BlueBasilisk » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:53 am

There's always somewhere else to go and someone stronger. Strongest in the multiverse? This multiverse is just part of a larger multiverse! It's turtles all the way down. And there's always the option to have a new challenge just created whole-cloth like Cell was.

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Re: Has Super written itself into a corner?

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:09 pm

Nah. There is still a lot of shit that Super can do to keep the plot fresh. There are still several other universes that have deliberately been left untouched for future use.

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