DBZ had its own "Battle Royale" and it trumps the ToP

[supersaiyanZero]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU4L_ILKHZA

It's a very interesting comparison because both are trying to convey a larger scale battle, yet the one animated over 2 decades earlier..well I'll let you draw your own conclusions. You can argue that the ToP is (in theory) on a much larger scale, but you can still scale down the battles to include more participants with interesting choreography instead of what Super has done..which is pretty much another tournament just disguised as a battle royale. It's becoming increasingly frustrating to watch and what I don't understand is how someone who makes the decisions at Toei can't see the difference in quality and the only conclusion I can come up with is that..they don't care?

[Kastex]

meh. i don't think that battle comes anywhere close to the TOP overall. even though both revolve around the idea of group battles, they are completely different. in the battle in the video, on one side the enemy fighters had no choice but to charge in or else Freeza would simply kill them for being useless. on the other side the namekians were forced to defend their selves against the attackers. in the ToP, survival is the main goal and one does not necessarily have to fight. most of the fighters weren't forced into situations where they had to fight. it was more of a pick and choose thing, which is completely different from the standard 1v1 or even 2v2 where they are forced to fight.

i'll agree that the ToP could and should be much better though.

[BWri]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU4L_ILKHZA

It's a very interesting comparison because both are trying to convey a larger scale battle, yet the one animated over 2 decades earlier..well I'll let you draw your own conclusions. You can argue that the ToP is (in theory) on a much larger scale, but you can still scale down the battles to include more participants with interesting choreography instead of what Super has done..which is pretty much another tournament just disguised as a battle royale. It's becoming increasingly frustrating to watch and what I don't understand is how someone who makes the decisions at Toei can't see the difference in quality and the only conclusion I can come up with is that..they don't care?

I love it! The choreography is so sick and the art is superb. I will say that the ToP did get this feel a few times, like when the tourney first started (ep. 97 I believe) and Gokes and Vej vs. U9. 118 had a decent battle royale feel too, except for U3, U4, and U11 doing nothing. If only the ToP was more consistent with it.

[sintzu]

It's not a fair comparison cause the TOP has 80 fighters in the same area fighting at the same time.

[TheMikado]

While it’s certainly not a one to one comparison it definitely shows elements that should have been incorporated. It’s interesting because the “battle” incorporates everything in the immediate vincinty, even the spectators not involved in the battle. They never disappear, hide, or forgotten.

Also want to point out how there was no crazy power inflation. I’ve said this a million times before but the Namekians has a read of 1000 and increased to 3000. These power levels we’re already small potatoes when Oozaru Vegeta was 180,000. Yet they still made it appear dynamic and exciting. You can make exciting fights without artificially increasing character power levels. Also they were initially comparable to our first introduction of power levels where we meet Raditz.

[JazzMazz]

While it’s certainly not a one to one comparison it definitely shows elements that should have been incorporated. It’s interesting because the “battle” incorporates everything in the immediate vincinty, even the spectators not involved in the battle. They never disappear, hide, or forgotten.

Also want to point out how there was no crazy power inflation. I’ve said this a million times before but the Namekians has a read of 1000 and increased to 3000. These power levels we’re already small potatoes when Oozaru Vegeta was 180,000. Yet they still made it appear dynamic and exciting. You can make exciting fights without artificially increasing character power levels. Also they were initially comparable to our first introduction of power levels where we meet Raditz.

I think this fight is a actually a good example of the almost meme like idea that DBZ's warm up fights were always better handled and animated than the actual major fight.

Also, I think mentioning power inflation is kind of out of place here, considering the next fight directly after this is Dodoria, who is considerably stronger than the Vegeta from Earth, completely decimating these same Namekians to demonstrate how big and bad he is, literally for him to be killed by Vegeta almost directly afterwards, to demonstrate how much bigger and badder Vegeta has gotten.

[Totamo]

While it’s certainly not a one to one comparison it definitely shows elements that should have been incorporated. It’s interesting because the “battle” incorporates everything in the immediate vincinty, even the spectators not involved in the battle. They never disappear, hide, or forgotten.

Also want to point out how there was no crazy power inflation. I’ve said this a million times before but the Namekians has a read of 1000 and increased to 3000. These power levels we’re already small potatoes when Oozaru Vegeta was 180,000. Yet they still made it appear dynamic and exciting. You can make exciting fights without artificially increasing character power levels. Also they were initially comparable to our first introduction of power levels where we meet Raditz.

Uh, the namekians next opponent was dodoria and this wasn't exciting because you always knew that freeza or zarbon could kill them anytime they wanted which is what happens later.


If they had done this in the tournament, people would have been pissed about the fact that the strong dudes are watching the people they can easily beat fight each other.

[Whatever]

This is not even a battle royale,its a team fight.

[TheMikado]

Also, I think mentioning power inflation is kind of out of place here, considering the next fight directly after this is Dodoria, who is considerably stronger than the Vegeta from Earth, completely decimating these same Namekians to demonstrate how big and bad he is, literally for him to be killed by Vegeta almost directly afterwards, to demonstrate how much bigger and badder Vegeta has gotten.

Uh, the namekians next opponent was dodoria and this wasn't exciting because you always knew that freeza or zarbon could kill them anytime they wanted which is what happens later.
If they had done this in the tournament, people would have been pissed about the fact that the strong dudes are watching the people they can easily beat fight each other.

I feel like you guys didn't read what you quoted.

Also want to point out how there was no crazy power inflation. I’ve said this a million times before but the Namekians has a read of 1000 and increased to 3000. These power levels we’re already small potatoes when Oozaru Vegeta was 180,000. Yet they still made it appear dynamic and exciting. You can make exciting fights without artificially increasing character power levels. Also they were initially comparable to our first introduction of power levels where we meet Raditz.

Oozaru Vegeta was the strongest member of Frieza's army by a VERY wide margin. I'm explaining how power levels of different scales were still able to be comfortable and exciting without making everyone as strong or stronger than Oozaru Vegeta. In fact, every single enemy except Frieza himself was FAR FAR weaker than Oozaru Vegeta. I won't make this a power level thread so I will likely just make another thread for it.

[TheMikado]

This is not even a battle royale,its a team fight.

Isn't that what we are getting in the ToP?

[JazzMazz]

Also, I think mentioning power inflation is kind of out of place here, considering the next fight directly after this is Dodoria, who is considerably stronger than the Vegeta from Earth, completely decimating these same Namekians to demonstrate how big and bad he is, literally for him to be killed by Vegeta almost directly afterwards, to demonstrate how much bigger and badder Vegeta has gotten.

Uh, the namekians next opponent was dodoria and this wasn't exciting because you always knew that freeza or zarbon could kill them anytime they wanted which is what happens later.
If they had done this in the tournament, people would have been pissed about the fact that the strong dudes are watching the people they can easily beat fight each other.

I feel like you guys didn't read what you quoted.

Also want to point out how there was no crazy power inflation. I’ve said this a million times before but the Namekians has a read of 1000 and increased to 3000. These power levels we’re already small potatoes when Oozaru Vegeta was 180,000. Yet they still made it appear dynamic and exciting. You can make exciting fights without artificially increasing character power levels. Also they were initially comparable to our first introduction of power levels where we meet Raditz.

Oozaru Vegeta was the strongest member of Frieza's army by a VERY wide margin. I'm explaining how power levels of different scales were still able to be comfortable and exciting without making everyone as strong or stronger than Oozaru Vegeta. In fact, every single enemy except Frieza himself was FAR FAR weaker than Oozaru Vegeta. I won't make this a power level thread so I will likely just make another thread for it.

I was just finding it ironic, espicially considering its a one sided roffle stomp.

[TheMikado]

Also, I think mentioning power inflation is kind of out of place here, considering the next fight directly after this is Dodoria, who is considerably stronger than the Vegeta from Earth, completely decimating these same Namekians to demonstrate how big and bad he is, literally for him to be killed by Vegeta almost directly afterwards, to demonstrate how much bigger and badder Vegeta has gotten.

Uh, the namekians next opponent was dodoria and this wasn't exciting because you always knew that freeza or zarbon could kill them anytime they wanted which is what happens later.
If they had done this in the tournament, people would have been pissed about the fact that the strong dudes are watching the people they can easily beat fight each other.

I feel like you guys didn't read what you quoted.

Also want to point out how there was no crazy power inflation. I’ve said this a million times before but the Namekians has a read of 1000 and increased to 3000. These power levels we’re already small potatoes when Oozaru Vegeta was 180,000. Yet they still made it appear dynamic and exciting. You can make exciting fights without artificially increasing character power levels. Also they were initially comparable to our first introduction of power levels where we meet Raditz.

Oozaru Vegeta was the strongest member of Frieza's army by a VERY wide margin. I'm explaining how power levels of different scales were still able to be comfortable and exciting without making everyone as strong or stronger than Oozaru Vegeta. In fact, every single enemy except Frieza himself was FAR FAR weaker than Oozaru Vegeta. I won't make this a power level thread so I will likely just make another thread for it.

I was just finding it ironic, espicially considering its a one sided roffle stomp.

That's the point though. They fought characters on their level rather than powering them up to Dodoria or making Dodoria 2x as strong as Oozaru Vegeta in order to make him a "threat".

[Whatever]

This is not even a battle royale,its a team fight.

Isn't that what we are getting in the ToP?

True thats what we end up getting in the top with every universe taking turns at U7 95% but him using this as an example of a battle royale is wrong,there was never a battle royale on dbz.

[TheMikado]

This is not even a battle royale,its a team fight.

Isn't that what we are getting in the ToP?

True thats what we end up getting in the top with every universe taking turns at U7 95% but him using this as an example of a battle royale is wrong,there was never a battle royale on dbz.

Yes there was, at the martial arts tournament.

[TheMikado]

If they had done this in the tournament, people would have been pissed about the fact that the strong dudes are watching the people they can easily beat fight each other.

It would make sense for someone like Frieza of Vegeta. Frieza in particular never liked to get his hands dirty with people who he considered beneath him. It's also why his characterization is odd in the ToP.
Both Frieza and Vegeta have shown multiple times that they would rather sit back and let underlings handle the less powerful fighters in order to see a "good fight".

[supersaiyanZero]

It's not a fair comparison cause the TOP has 80 fighters in the same area fighting at the same time.

I don't agree, there might be 80 fighters in the same area but there is no way you're going to show 80 fighters in the same scene. You can still have groups of fighters engaging each other in a dynamic way.

[FortuneSSJ]

When I read the title I thought you were talking about the one in Buu arc with Mighty Mask vs C18 vs Satan vs the other two guys 99% of this fanbase don't remember their names...

Goku/Vegeta vs Universe 9 is much better than that to be honest, and this isn't a good comparison.

ToP = 20+ episodes of fighting and still counting.
That fight = Not even 3 minutes...

For you to make such comparison, I don't think you know what you're talking about. This would only make sense if both battle royals had around the same length.
You can compare that scene to the GoDs battle royal in DBS manga, and as expected Toyotaro delivered it.

It's not hard to make a short fight look cool, but to do a Tournament with non-stop fighting that lasts 20+episodes, while keeping art/animation consistency and still delivering memorable scenes, now that's really hard. Truly a milestone, I must say, because I'm sure not every studio can pull it off.

[sangofe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU4L_ILKHZA

It's a very interesting comparison because both are trying to convey a larger scale battle, yet the one animated over 2 decades earlier..well I'll let you draw your own conclusions. You can argue that the ToP is (in theory) on a much larger scale, but you can still scale down the battles to include more participants with interesting choreography instead of what Super has done..which is pretty much another tournament just disguised as a battle royale. It's becoming increasingly frustrating to watch and what I don't understand is how someone who makes the decisions at Toei can't see the difference in quality and the only conclusion I can come up with is that..they don't care?

There's absolutely nothing execptional about this "battle royale" as you call it.

Edit: I knew I had seen your nick before. You're the guy who likes to shit on Super: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=40551&p=1426645#p1426645 So no surprise this post comes from you.

[buutenks]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU4L_ILKHZA

It's a very interesting comparison because both are trying to convey a larger scale battle, yet the one animated over 2 decades earlier..well I'll let you draw your own conclusions. You can argue that the ToP is (in theory) on a much larger scale, but you can still scale down the battles to include more participants with interesting choreography instead of what Super has done..which is pretty much another tournament just disguised as a battle royale. It's becoming increasingly frustrating to watch and what I don't understand is how someone who makes the decisions at Toei can't see the difference in quality and the only conclusion I can come up with is that..they don't care?

Oh look, repeated frames, and fodder enemies that no one cares about.

A battle royal is when everyone dukes it out in open field. Ofc ToP isnt like that, its team battles. Since it isnt one on one it is universe vs universe. A true battle royal, would have needed to be so that every character is an enemy to each other. basically 80 character that all want or need to defeat each other, not defeat teams.

And i dont see how that video is awesome. You have got to be joking. There is nothing epic about it, just randoms getting their ass kicked by slightly less namekian fodder, with Zarbon, Dodoria and freaking Freeza watching, who could vaporize all of them in a blink of an eye.

Fights need to be epic, u cant realistically show a battle royal, since that would mean, constantly seeing all the fighters fight from afar, and everyone would just throw random ki blasts n stuff around and people would randomly fall off the arena.

So far, i think they did a good job, even tho there were some not so interesting episodes. But what is good about this arc, is that it is very rewatchable for me. Since it isnt mystery or what not.

[JazzMazz]

I feel like you guys didn't read what you quoted.



Oozaru Vegeta was the strongest member of Frieza's army by a VERY wide margin. I'm explaining how power levels of different scales were still able to be comfortable and exciting without making everyone as strong or stronger than Oozaru Vegeta. In fact, every single enemy except Frieza himself was FAR FAR weaker than Oozaru Vegeta. I won't make this a power level thread so I will likely just make another thread for it.

I was just finding it ironic, espicially considering its a one sided roffle stomp.

That's the point though. They fought characters on their level rather than powering them up to Dodoria or making Dodoria 2x as strong as Oozaru Vegeta in order to make him a "threat".

Again, your analogy doesn't exactly work because the scene was supposed to demonstrate how incredibly strong the Nameks are(they were stronger than Gohan and Kuririn at the time), and then have them bowled over by a guy that was considerably stronger than Vegeta when he visited Earth. That entire demonstration was to build up how Dodoria, was a guy who was a lot stronger than Vegeta on Earth, by having him annihilate opponents who were stronger than our heroes.

How is that not demonstrating massive power escalation, espicially since Dodoria was annihilated by Vegeta almost directly after his fight against the Nameks.

Also, Oozaru Vegeta, wasn't the main antagonist of the previous arc, that is to say, the foe they spent the most time fighting or had the most difficulty with, that title belonged to a wounded Vegeta, who was far from being at his best. So having opponents like Dodoria, who they establish is stronger than Vegeta when he went to earth at his best, who when injured took loads of punishment to finally defeat and pushed our heroes to their limits, defeats 3 guys currently stronger than our heroes, only to get effortlessly annihilated by Vegeta immediately afterwards, is an extremely clear demonstration of extreme escalation.