Favorite Iteration of Son Goku

[Kataphrut]

Saiyan and Namek saga were him at his best for me. It was when he peaked as a character. I don't think Goku has ever been bad since then, but it was never quite the same as when he was coming to grips with his Saiyan heritage and on the path to becoming the first Super Saiyan. Plus, I'm a sucker for a good Big Damn Heroes moment, and Goku in these eras had some all-time greats.

Second place goes to 23rd Budokai Goku, really that was just a transition into the Saiyan/Namek version, but it was cool to see him grown up, yet still the same in that brief moment. Third to pre-23rd Budokai (aka Kid Goku), fourth to Super, fifth to Cell/Buu (this was an awkward time for him for numerous reasons, hence why I'm putting him below Super) 6th to EoZ/GT. Can't stand him in those.

Special shoutout to Battle of Gods Goku, specifically the movie for it's exploration of his character.

[Lord Beerus]

Goku from the Red Ribbon Army arc to the Saiyan arc was where was at his finest as character. He still retained that wonderful fish out of water characteristic that was charming, genuine and funny. Freeza arc Goku annoys me, Cell arc Goku frustrates me, Majin Boo arc Goku just pisses me off, GT Goku is very balanced but a bit of a spotlight stealer and Super Goku is quite overly excitable but still charming.

[Timetraveller]

Kid Goku for his naivety. GT Goku for being the most mature.

[Grimlock]

Do you like his depiction in original Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT, or Dragon Ball Super the best?

Personality-wise: Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, probably Dragon Ball GT too.
Design-wise: Xeno Goku (Dragon Ball Heroes) and Dragon Ball Minus.

[Michsi]

I like Goku the most pre-SSJ transformation. I feel like his character wasn't quite that challenge/battle driven until then. Not to mention that he ascends to this "god among men" status after the Freeza saga and I kinda liked it when he was still the underdog a bit. Now, even when he is not winning, he still comes off as untouchable.

[Timetraveller]

Do you like his depiction in original Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT, or Dragon Ball Super the best?

Personality-wise: Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, probably Dragon Ball GT too.
Design-wise: Xeno Goku (Dragon Ball Heroes) and Dragon Ball Minus.

Xeno Goku looks like a beast. I hope we get something similar to that after a timeskip

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

but man that was still a gamble.

The only gamble they had. Gohan was the ONLY one with the power to defeat Cell. Why does everyone seem to forget that?

With all due respect, did you even read my comment in full?

Not sure this counts, but Goku all the way from DB before Z and Saiyan Arc + Namek Arc. I just loved him throughout DB before Z and in Z, I felt he definitely grew in the Saiyan arc, such as him coming to the realization he was the beast that inadvertently killed his adoptive grandfather, and his characterization when he was a Super Saiyan for the first time is something I'll never forget.

Least favorite would be Dragon Ball Super Goku. I hate his flanderization in Super. Him being Luffy stupid at this age just doesn't work.

Though, an honorable mention for my least favorite Goku would be Android/Cell arc Goku. I know Vegeta got flak for prioritizing his rivalry with Goku over Bulma and his son, but hell, it worked for Vegeta because being a prideful asshole was his character. That wasn't the case for Goku, on the other hand... I mean, Jeezus, him just sitting there and watching his son get hammered by Cell disturbed even Vegeta, not to mention getting lectured by a former demon about his own son. I understand it was in good-faith on Goku's part because he was confident in his son exploding and winning that fight, but man that was still a gamble.

Clearly, I don't disagree with your comment. Critiquing my comment is fine and all, but at least make sure you read everything first before cherry-picking things dude.

[Grimlock]

Xeno Goku looks like a beast. I hope we get something similar to that after a timeskip

Yeah, Xeno Goku has the best outfit of all Goku's iterations. However, I highly doubt we would see anything like that in the series. We're talking about Dragon Ball, whose main series refuses to try out something different.

[BlueBasilisk]

Goku from the Red Ribbon Army arc to the Saiyan arc was where was at his finest as character. He still retained that wonderful fish out of water characteristic that was charming, genuine and funny. Freeza arc Goku annoys me, Cell arc Goku frustrates me, Majin Boo arc Goku just pisses me off, GT Goku is very balanced but a bit of a spotlight stealer and Super Goku is quite overly excitable but still charming.

Those are my feelings on both of those! Buu arc Goku pisses me off like no other, and while I don't like the way GT Goku was used in the story by the writing staff, as a character I think he's fairly nice.

Yeah, Xeno Goku has the best outfit of all Goku's iterations. However, I highly doubt we would see anything like that in the series. We're talking about Dragon Ball, whose main series refuses to try out something different.

We can't even get him in the blue gi and that one's an old design too.

[ABED]

With all due respect, did you even read my comment in full?

I did and that is my retort. Gohan was the only one who could do anything, so Goku isn't a dick for putting Gohan up against Cell. It's unfortunate that the fate of the world rests on the shoulders of a child, but what is Goku supposed to do? There was no other option.

I did read in full. I didn't drop context, I simply zeroed in on the thing I disagreed with. I'm not even sure what your point of contention is.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

With all due respect, did you even read my comment in full?

I did and that is my retort. Gohan was the only one who could do anything, so Goku isn't a dick for putting Gohan up against Cell. It's unfortunate that the fate of the world rests on the shoulders of a child, but what is Goku supposed to do? There was no other option.

*Sigh* This again:

I understand it was in good-faith on Goku's part because he was confident in his son exploding and winning that fight, but man that was still a gamble.

Not sure "good-faith" constitutes as "being a dick". The only bad thing Goku did, like Piccolo pointed out, was not letting Gohan know about the plan in advance. If you think my issue is with Gohan fighting Cell well, you're wrong. Sorry for not being clear about that.

I did read in full. I didn't drop context, I simply zeroed in on the thing I disagreed with. I'm not even sure what your point of contention is.

but man that was still a gamble.

The only gamble they had. Gohan was the ONLY one with the power to defeat Cell. Why does everyone seem to forget that?

Except you also agreed it was a gamble, so... what?

If you are referring to the fact that you felt I implied Goku was being a dick for putting Gohan up against Cell, that's not what I said either, as I explained above. To clarify again, I agree with Piccolo's assessment of the situation, which is why I didn't really like Goku's actions there. That's all. Again, apologies for not being clear.

[KBABZ]

I think the flaw Goku made with Cell v Gohan is misunderstanding how Gohan's inner power worked. He sized up Cell and deduced that Gohan would be able to beat him, but completely mis-judged that Gohan would just get pulverized in a normal situation.

[Michsi]

About the Goku-Gohan thing - I feel that people often correctly remember Goku being in the wrong there, but not for the right reason, if that makes any sense. Yes, Goku was right in believing that Gohan was the only one with enough power to defeat Cell, however, that doesn't change the fact that he went about it all wrong. Giving Cell a senzu was his most egregious mistake, but it's his entire demeanor that makes him look kinda douchey. He looks so giddy and downright smug, and no matter how much confidence you might have in your son, some concern and seriousness should be on display.

Yeah, Cell arc Goku is weird in a lot of ways. He has prophetic dreams, keeps secrets from everyone, including Gohan, decides he should stay dead because suddenly he cares that he brings trouble. At least that second self-refection was neat.

[ABED]

Wait, did Piccolo in fact chastise Goku for not letting Gohan in on his plan? I don't recall that. What I remember is the line that everyone seems to take as gospel that Gohan is wondering why his father would throw him to the wolves. Regardless, I don't blame Goku. This whole part of the arc makes no sense. In order to hide the surprises from the audience, Toriyama has Goku keep things from other characters that they should know. There's no logical reason Goku would keep his plan from Gohan except that Toriyama can't think of a way to talk around Goku's plan without spoiling it for the audience.

Except you also agreed it was a gamble, so... what?

I was speaking off the cuff because it's not really a gamble. It's a risky move, but not based on chance. It's based on Goku's knowledge of Gohan's power. They are in a crappy spot, so why does this reflect badly on Goku?

Giving Cell a senzu was his most egregious mistake

It wasn't a mistake as it didn't amount to anything. When Gohan's power is unleashed, Goku has every right to be confident. I don't see the mistake at all.

I think the flaw Goku made with Cell v Gohan is misunderstanding how Gohan's inner power worked. He sized up Cell and deduced that Gohan would be able to beat him, but completely mis-judged that Gohan would just get pulverized in a normal situation.

Goku's not that stupid. He knows how it works. He has since the Saiyan arc. He knows great emotion is Gohan's trigger. And Gohan didn't get pulverized against Cell in the early part of the arc. Does no one recall that Cell's attacks had little effect on Gohan's power? At worst, before transforming, the match was a stalemate.

For me, to judge a characters actions, they have to be in character, otherwise it's the writer sacrficing a character to make the plot work, which in effect hurts both because it's inorganic. My least favorite iteration of Goku is in fact in the Cell and Buu arcs because he spends so much time trying to pass the damn torch. I'm not interested in him passing the torch.

[Michsi]

Giving Cell a senzu was his most egregious mistake

It wasn't a mistake as it didn't amount to anything. When Gohan's power is unleashed, Goku has every right to be confident. I don't see the mistake at all.

I was speaking from a moral perspective, but yes, it's also a mistake that had consequences. We are told that the reason Gohan couldn't get angry was because he was too upset over Goku seemingly caring more a fair fight than his son's life. How did that get fixed? Through someone dying. No matter how little you may care about #16 as a character, that anyone's death was necessary to trigger Gohan's rage makes Goku's move earlier very evidently a mistake.

And yes, I will take Piccolo's line as gospel, same as every other character's statement that doesn't get contradicted. DB is as simple and straightforward as can be, and other character's comments being used as exposition is commonplace. Statements like that are supposed to be taken at face value unless the story makes it a point to show that they shouldn't (and I don't think that was ever the case with DB)

[ABED]

Giving Cell a senzu was his most egregious mistake

It wasn't a mistake as it didn't amount to anything. When Gohan's power is unleashed, Goku has every right to be confident. I don't see the mistake at all.

I was speaking from a moral perspective, but yes, it's also a mistake that had consequences. We are told that the reason Gohan couldn't get angry was because he was too upset over Goku seemingly caring more a fair fight than his son's life. How did that get fixed? Through someone dying. No matter how little you may care about #16 as a character, that anyone's death was necessary to trigger Gohan's rage makes Goku's move earlier very evidently a mistake.

And yes, I will take Piccolo's line as gospel, same as every other character's statement that doesn't get contradicted. DB is as simple and straightforward as can be, and other character's comments being used as exposition is commonplace. Statements like that are supposed to be taken at face value unless the story makes it a point to show that they shouldn't (and I don't think that was ever the case with DB)

That's not what we're told. Yet again, someone takes Piccolo's word at gospel. There is no reason to think that Piccolo knows what GOhan is thinking or that Gohan would ever think that about his father. We don't know that it's supposed to be taken at face value. The takeaway is that Piccolo is trying everything he can to get Goku to help Gohan whom they both care about, not that he somehow knows what Gohan is thinking.

This whole part of the arc is a mess.

[Michsi]

That's not what we're told. Yet again, someone takes Piccolo's word at gospel. There is no reason to think that Piccolo knows what GOhan is thinking or that Gohan would ever think that about his father. We don't know that it's supposed to be taken at face value. The takeaway is that Piccolo is trying everything he can to get Goku to help Gohan whom they both care about, not that he somehow knows what Gohan is thinking.

I don't buy it. It feels like trying very hard to discredit that line simply because it's solid proof against your point. DB is too simple of a story to make use of the unreliable narrator and character comments have been used as exposition since the very beginning. If nothing came up later to tell us that Piccolo was wrong, then I think he was right. And since this is Piccolo, I'd assume he knew what he was talking about, especially since he was talking about Gohan.

[ABED]

It's not solid proof. It's what Piccolo thinks Gohan is thinking, but we've never seen Gohan think anything along those lines. He's never felt that about his father. He's more likely to have self doubt than think ill of his father. When has he felt ill of his dad?

You keep saying DB is a simple story but the fact that Piccolo says something that may or may not be true is hardly complex.

Piccolo isn't an unreliable narrator! He's not a narrator of any kind. He's simply a friend whose concern for his friend makes him try to get the child's father to take action. This isn't exposition. If it were, why not have Gohan think it in voice over?

And since this is Piccolo, I'd assume he knew what he was talking about, especially since he was talking about Gohan.

And since we've never seen Gohan think ill of his father ever, I'm think Piccolo is just concerned.

[Michsi]

Being upset over what Goku did and thinking ill of him are different things.

Again, I take what DB is telling me at face value and Piccolo's statement pretty much as fact since nothing contradicts it. We see Gohan struggling, we see him unable to get angry and the story provides us with the explanation for why he can't. More than that, Goku even apologizes to everyone while they were getting pummeled by the Cell Jrs., basically admitting that he had been wrong.

And in the end it doesn't even matter if Piccolo's statement was right or not He still gave Cell a senzu, which gave Cell back the power he lost, basically taking away a possible advantage Gohan might have had. If mistake doesn't suit you, than how about glaring recklessness? It's still very much paints him in a negative light.

[ABED]

And what about Gohan's demeanor in that moment says he's upset?

Again, I take what DB is telling me at face value

I'm taking at face value as well. It's not a big leap to think Piccolo doesn't know exactly what Gohan is thinking.

Here's another reason to think it's crap. EVERYONE who takes Piccolo's statement at face value ALWAYS miss that Goku tells Gohan right before the fight that if he wants to be a scholar, he first has to defeat Cell. So much for the BS theory that he doesn't understand his son.

which gave Cell back the power he lost

Which wasn't much. It's reckless, but it wasn't luck that he was right. Gohan wasn't injured at all even before he transformed.

It doesn't paint him in a great light but seeing as how this isn't a thread about how moral Goku is, why does it matter?