Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 56-60 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 12]

[Ajay]

Welcome! For details on this rewatch, click here!

CRAB BATTLE!

Here are some legal ways to stream the series:
Funimation (North America)
AnimeLab (Australia and New Zealand)

This week we're covering:

[spoiler]どでかい戦闘力！！砕け散るフリーザの陰謀
YDodekai Sentō-ryoku!! Kudakechiru Furīza no Inbō
An Enormous Battle Power!! Freeza’s Strategy is Shattered

The revived Vegeta succeeds in stealing Freeza’s five Dragon Balls! What’s more, he discovers Kuririn holding a Dragon Ball, and begins pursuing him so that he can assemble all seven Dragon Balls right away. Kuririn is ecstatic at having become strong, and doesn’t notice Vegeta. The moment he arrives at the cave were Bulma is waiting, Vegeta overtakes him. But Zarbon also appears, having followed Vegeta, and the situation is absolutely desperate! Meanwhile, Goku’s spaceship is caught in a magnetic storm!

元気が戻ったぞ！！１００倍超重力の中の悟空
Genki ga Modotta zo!! Hyakubai Chō-Jūryoku no Naka no Gokū
I’m Back to My Old Self Again!! Goku Takes on 100 Times Gravity

Due to the magnetic storm, the gravity generation device starts acting strange! Goku is hit with 100x gravity. Even for Goku, this gravity is too much. He manages to stop the device, but is seriously hurt. On Planet Namek, Vegeta and Zarbon fight before Kuririn and Bulma’s eyes. Having returned from the brink of death and powered up even further, Vegeta defeats Zarbon! Kuririn has no choice but to give his Dragon Ball to Vegeta…

フリーザの秘密兵器！悪魔のギニュー特戦隊
Furīza no Himitsu Heiki! Akuma no Ginyū Tokusentai
Freeza’s Secret Weapon! The Devilish Ginyu Special-Squad

When Zarbon fails to return, an irritated Freeza sends a message to dispatch the Ginyu Special-Squad. The Ginyu Special-Squad is Freeza’s prized unique fighting corps! Gohan obtains the Dragon Ball that Vegeta hid, but meets Vegeta on his way back!! In a good mood at having assembled all seven Dragon Balls, Vegeta leaves without fighting Gohan. Having hidden the Dragon Ball, Gohan reunites with Kuririn, and this time they set out to meet the Eldest!

ブルマが危ない！！四星球はフリーザの手に
Buruma ga Abunai!! Sūshinchū wa Furīza no Te ni
Bulma, Watch Out!! The Four-Star Ball Falls into Freeza’s Hands

Freeza releases angry energy! It hits the island he aimed for, and the land shakes. This shaking causes the Dragon Ball that Bulma has to roll into the sea. Bulma goes searching for it in a submarine, but the Dragon Ball falls into a hole. But there are many Dragon Balls! It turns out that these are actually the eggs of a giant crab!! The giant crab attacks in an attempt to protect its eggs. The submarine’s roof collapses from the shock, but Bulma protects the crab and its eggs. Retrieving the Dragon Ball, Bulma returns to land. But Freeza’s henchmen are there…

激突だ！！不屈の闘志の界王拳とカメハメ波
Gekitotsu da!! Fukutsu no Toushi no Kaiō-Ken to Kamehameha
Charge!! The Kaiō-Ken and Kamehameha of an Indomitable Spirit

Captured by Freeza’s henchmen, Razzberi and Buleberi, Bulma lies and says that there is another Dragon Ball in the sea. While they doubt her, the two still begin searching the ocean floor. Bulma is of course the one to show them the way!! She’ll be killed if they realize there’s no Dragon Ball there… Bulma is frightened at this prospect, but the giant crab’s eggs are on the sea floor! The henchmen are defeated by the giant crab as it attacks to protect its eggs. Meanwhile, Goku tries to finish his training at 100x gravity![/spoiler]


Suggested Format & Weekly Questions

Language: For the sake of context, let us know which language you're watching the series in (and what score, if required).
General Thoughts: Your thoughts on the episode, possibly linked to the suggested questions if need be. Cover the plot, the tone, the character interactions, and characterisation.
Entertainment Factor: How was the pacing? Did the episode keep you entertained throughout, or what could have been done better?
Animation: Did you like the action sequences, or the way characters emoted? Did things move in a satisfying way, or was it mostly style over substance?
Questions: Not necessary, but if you're curious about opinions on a specific point that hasn't been touched on, go ahead and ask! It's a nice way to spur the topic onward.

- Do you think the filler additions for Bulma actively help her feel like a more active/relevant figure in this arc?

[gaberparadiso]

Episode 56

General thoughts: Vegeta's clever plan showed how Freezer's idea of healing him was pretty stupid. Considering Zarbon left Appule to control Vegeta's health conditions, it's obvious Freezer's plan would easily fail. Overall, Vegeta's scheme is really ingenious because not only he did steal his DBs, but also took advantage of Freezer and Zarbon's inability to sense energy. He just needed to stay underwater to make his presence disappear. Then, we have Gohan spotting the DB Vegeta had hidden at the bottom of a lake and Krillin getting so carried away he didn't notice Vegeta was right behind him. And so does Zarbon. Unfortunately, though, a new, entirely unneeded filler begins, and it's just an excuse to see Goku training under a 100x gravity. Once again, it's indeed distracting and pointless.

Entertainment factor: good direction from Ueda. Probably not his best direction, but still solid. Watching Vegeta's scheme was kinda fun, but again, this episode focuses more on the story than on the action.

Animation: Ueda's storyboarding is quite nice: he can definitely create atmosphere (also thanks to BGM), and can take advantage of shades/reflections (ex. Vegeta swimming or Bulma seeing the DB Krillin brought). Art-wise, it's a Studio Live episode, so you should expect an inconsistent entry: Ebisawa's unappealing triangular design, Handa/Iida's milder approach and Kan'no's more on-model art. Speaking of the latter, by now we start knowing him better. I quite like his Freezer and Zarbon, whereas his other characters share some massive proportions, like Vegeta's forehead and Krillin's ears and eyes, which look a bit off. Maybe due to Ebisawa's corrections. https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/dra ... 0517141332 Besides, he can be traced through his twitchy character acting, especially when Zarbon curses Vegeta in the 1st half, which is the thing I like the least about him. This trait makes his characters quiver excessively during reaction shots. It's not a distinctive move, but actually pretty stock. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 0964686848 Ebisawa's Vegeta is eh.

Music: good placement, overall. Nothing feels wrong. I love M518 at the end. They should've placed it there more often.

Overall: 7/10. Not bad.

[gaberparadiso]

Episode 57

General thoughts: what a disappointment. Yesterday I considered the Goku subplot pointless, but weirdly enough, I actually enjoyed more than the real plot, involving the Vegeta vs Zarbon rematch. Again, nothing outstanding, but at least Goku uses his techniques to break that sort of rope he was tied. Of course, much like ep. 53, skipping from the Namek plot to the Goku cutaways isn't helping that much, especially when the rematch between Vegeta and Zarbon is terribly boring. On second thought, my 6/10 rating on 53 was a bit harsh, and a 6,5/10 would be more appropriate. I say this because AT LEAST that episode had some interesting concepts, with some nice movements from Ohara. On the other hand, this doesn't, and as a result Zarbon's death is not executed that well. At least in the anime, since because of the several interruptions and of a poorly made fight, his death feels a bit weak, as it also falls into the same "let's join forces" cliché. Lastly, shall we mention Krillin handing his DB over to Vegeta, which he said he'd protect ONLY THREE EPISODES AGO? To his plea, he knows he doesn't stand a chance against Vegeta, who could easily kill both him and Bulma, considering he STILL holds a grudge against Earthlings at this precise point. He's STILL a jerk, it's too soon to let them live in my opinion.

Entertainment factor: too many cutaways. Yamauchi's direction is utterly mediocre. And that's not even the main problem, since...

Animation: ... this was considerably a rushed episode. Shindo's corrections are strong and all over the episode. I was quite surprised to spot Yamamuro's section being so heavily corrected, which is kinda ironic considering the subject. Anyway, as you guessed, the fight is the main problem here: it starts off decently, with some aerial kicks and smears from Noriko Shibata, but then we see lots and lots of reused animations from 53, from Ohara's transformation of Zarbon, Ohara's Vegeta and Zarbon hitting each other, but also from the actual episode, like Vegeta using his barrage of energy waves and Zarbon dodging his attacks. Moreover, its pacing isn't fast, either, so we actually feel underwhelmed by the lowness of this fight. Such a letdown. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 9194294272

Music: nothing valuable to comment/criticize. Disastrous Battle is played at the beginning, which is mostly remembered for Kamesennin preparing for his Kamehameha on the Fire Mountain back in DB. M811 gets interrupted poorly, while M740 has been used so many times it doesn't even have a value anymore. It's played during Zarbon's death, and I think it's a sloppy choice, which sadly we're going to witness again during Freezer's defeat. And I'm afraid it will piss me off. But still.

Overall: 5,5/10. Letdown.

[Taisa732]

Language: Japanese

Episode 56/57:
General Thoughts: Allow me to tell you a story. Don't worry I'll make it short.
The very first time DBZ aired on TV, in my country, I didn't manage to see it in it's entirely due to school schedule. So I was left in the dark, not knowing what was happening and always wanting to discover more about it.
Lucky for me the manga was available, helping me to fill in the blanks.
I remember reading this part and being in awe, loving every single page of it. From the moment Vegeta wakes up in the medical machine, to Zarbon's defeat everything Vegeta does is magnificent! Really elevating him as a character and as a strategist.
The first time I've read this segment it was also the moment I've become the huge Vegeta fan I'm still today (in case you didn't figure that out by now), making round 2 of the fight with Zarbon possibly one of my favourite of the entire series.
The second time the show aired on TV I remember being so hyped, I couldn't wait to see the pages from the manga coming to life in animated form, and when I finally saw them I was so... disappointed.
Episode 56 is still savable, it still follows the same problems of filler placement, but the focus is on Namek. Episode 57 on the other hand really gets on my nerves.
Like I've already said, Vegeta vs Zarbon (round 2) is one of my favourite fights, but in the anime we can barely see it. But what makes it so good in the original? First of all the fact that Vegeta is multitasking, fighting Zarbon while keeping an eye on Krillin and Bulma and doing both jobs impeccably. It's a rare occasion where a fighter is focusing on something on the sidelines.
Second reason is the use of the environment, again something rare in the series. Vegeta uses sand to blind Zarbon and the way he does it is spectacular. Doges a blow by crouching, then jumps in the air making sure Zarbon is following. It's a great move, it's fluid and it shows how quick thinking Vegeta is.
Lastly there is the way Vegeta uses his previews defeat to his own advantage, in addition to benefiting from saiyan power, managing to never getting hit.
Seriously, this is an underrated fight, go read it in the manga!
It's a quick fight, but even that works at it's advantage, making you believe how everything is happening in a moment.
So way doesn't work in the anime? Because of one thing: Goku.
I'm sorry, but I don't care about him! The constant cuts to Goku are really irritating and a constant disturbance for the fight that should be the main focus, not the other way around.
We literally have minutes upon minutes of Goku just hanging from the ceiling (again, literally), and less than a second of Vegeta fighting Zarbon. It's absurd, ridiculous ad obnoxious.
I get what they where going for, making the parallelism between Vegeta's explanation of saiyan's increase of power, and Goku risking his life in the spaceship. But... come on!
A part from the fact that Krillin says it out loud (“This is why Goku's strength increases after fights”), but Toriyama himself added a scene where we see all of this (Goku's last training just a few chapters after), so we don't need it here!
Guess after all this years I'm still disappointed and angry.

Animation: So, with all that said, lets pour other salt on (my) wound.
Every time I see Ebisawa I immaterially start to cringe. I'm sorry I don't have anything against him, but both his drawings and animation are really bad. So there goes my enjoyment of Vegeta's escape from the spaceship as well. Lucky the rest of episode 56 is mostly fine.
Episode 57 is the opposite, because it has good animation, problem is it's all in the wrong places. Let's continue to ignore everything on Namek, let's focus all our resources on making Goku look cool, why not.
Once again, Goku's scenes have better visuals and better animation than the amazing fight that in comparison looks dull.
Goku's scenes have very nice colours and atmosphere. Nice, expressions on him, nice animation on the kamehameha that has to fight the gravity.
Darn it, I'm still mad that all of this good stuff is waisted on boring filler.

Episode 58:
General Thoughts: This episode has a lot going for it. First of all if you thought that Goku's arrival could solve at least the “Vegeta problem”, having one less enemy to deal with... think again. Ginyu Tokusentai is now heading to Namek so problems just keep coming.
Second good thing about this episode is how Krillin is handling the situation. Giving Vegeta the dragon ball was a very smart move, especially because Krillin knows that Gohan is looking for the last ball. This way he keeps himself and Bulma alive, putting his trust into Gohan.
Speaking of, the scene between him and Vegeta is the highlight of the episode. It's tense because you fear for Gohan's life and you hope that Vegeta doesn't notice the dragon ball. There are a couple of cuts where both Vegeta and the dragon ball are in the same frame, making you aware of how close he is.
Lastly, Vegeta is just a piece of sh... in this scene and I love it!

Animation: Nothing too spectacular except Vegeta flying across the planet after he realize that that wasn't a watch. Love the way the scenery reacts to him passing through.

Episode 59/60:
General Thoughts: Two filler episodes that are almost harmless. They don't bring anything knew or interesting, but at least they are consistent on there own.
The first one is the setup, the second the pay-off, nothing else.
My only problem is some of the choices they give to Bulma, I find them a bit odd and out of character, or at least they rely on sixteen years old Bulma more then the adult one. On the other hand I do like how she gets out of the situation using her brain.
Could I live without them? Absolutely, but I can also live with them.

Animation: Nothing much to say. Liked Bulma trying to get the dragon ball from the water, at the beginning, and the robot dodging the crab.

- Do you think the filler additions for Bulma actively help her feel like a more active/relevant figure in this arc?

Keep in mind that this comes from someone who really likes Bulma, but the problem with her in this arc starts with Toriyama himself. He added her to the crew, but then forgot about her and never gave her anything to do.
I would've loved to see her giving her contribution to the main story just to involve her more, even if she wasn't decisive.
Sadly these fillers aren't it.
Her characterisation is a bit iffy, making her look like she's still a teenager and ignoring the levels of maturity she gained since the start of the story (not all character development end up with a giant suicidal explosion). Also giving her a lot of questionable choice at best.
I bear them only because I like Bulma going on her one little adventure, but even if I am a fan of hers I'm still bored to death.
Ultimately I would've preferred Toriyama could've thought something up and better for her.

[gaberparadiso]

Episode 58

General thoughts: this is just what you would expect. Unlike the previous episode, I'm not that disappointed. I actually find some scenes quite amusing: Freezer killing a weenie soldier of his, Vegeta's reaction after realizing Gohan wasn't precisely holding a clock. Vegeta's wrath scene made me laugh a bit, maybe because of how Shimanuki drew him with veins popping up on his forehead and eyes without pupils. And last, but not least, Vegeta acting like a pedophile towards Gohan, who also reminds him of their Saiyan origin in common, even though it was a """subtle""" excuse to hurt him.

Entertainment factor: it's okay. Hashimoto's direction is kinda mediocre, and brings nothing outstanding.

Animation: this is Takeuchi's second to last episode as a supervisor, and we can definitely see why: not only his corrections are really light, but also his round and rudimentary art seems no longer appropriate at this point of the series. Iizuka's pedo face on Vegeta looks neat, https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 0244846592 just like Shimanuki's work, who animates Vegeta kicking Gohan and his Wrath after he finds out Gohan stole his DB, with some fairly nice expressions, like his eyes lacking of pupils or veins popping up on his forehead, and of course his trademark debris. While Hisada's contribution is really limited, and once again, he pretty much confirms his growth as an artist/animator. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 7673070595

Music: pretty bad music direction. Hashimoto does love M6** that much, doesn't he? And apparently, he didn't even use them that well, either: Tenshinhan Knocks Out Kame Sennin during the training at Kaio's planet? (a track he loves so much he even uses a second time when Vegeta dives into the lake) Or Tao Pai Pai Recognizes Muten Roshi when Gohan returns to Krillin's place? Moreover, when he doesn't reuse tracks, he loops them. And we haven't still talked about the abomination he'd accomplish at the end of this arc. But let's not digress.

Overall: 7/10. Despite a bad BGM direction, it's nothing bad.

[TrunksTrevelyan0064]

Episodes covered: Dragon Ball Z 56-60 ("Dragon Ball 209-213")


EPISODE 56
* This might be Vegeta's best moment in all of Dragon Ball - it is certainly my personal favorite. Straight-up TELLING Freeza where he is, before not only escaping without a trace but also stealing all of Freeza's Dragon Balls right from under his nose. Holy crap, dude. Audacious, ingenious, and utterly effective. In fact, it's so bold and badass that I almost (almost - this is still the same evil maniac who annihilated a Namekian village not too long ago) feel bad for him when Gohan "steals" the other Ball. Vegeta got so close to getting his wish (Actually, no, he wouldn't have been able to summon Porunga. But still!).
* I love this Kuririn-chased-by-Vegeta-chased-by-Zarbon sequence so much. Such a great way to bring the three "teams" together.

EPISODE 57
* It's easy to dismiss as pointless padding, but I actually quite like the way Goku is first introduced to 100x Earth's gravity in the anime. He finds himself in an unexpected dangerous situation that's actually portrayed as very scary and painful, almost disturbingly so (with the blood). And I completely buy that this first taste of 100x gravity allows Goku's body to begin growing slightly accustomed to it. Unrealistic? Sure, but real-world physics and science have never applied to Dragon Ball.
* I wish creative out-of-the-box tricks, such as Vegeta's sand-in-the-eyes thing, happened more often in Dragon Ball fights.

EPISODE 58
* This Ginyu departure sequence is just so cool. Reminds me of the Thunderbirds. Gah, there is so much potential for a Tokusentai spin-off series!
* Creepy Vegeta is creepy. Pissed Vegeta is PISSED! Still can't help but hear Brian Drummond's "MY WRAAAATH" in my head. Even Ryo Horikawa's performance doesn't top that one (though he is still my preferred actor for Vegeta overall).

EPISODE 59
* Okay - I'm gonna go into these next two episodes as open-minded as I can, rather than determined to hate them just because of filler.
* The opening scene with Vegeta is probably really scary if you don't realize it's a dream, having just witnessed his violent outburst last episode.
* Nice to see Bulma's gadgets coming in handy, I suppose, but this underwater adventure just isn't very interesting so far.

EPISODE 60
* I've always liked this alien crocodile design for, uhhh, Razzberi? Buleberi? Whichever one he is. Neat attention to detail to have him be able to breathe under water, too. How the human-looking one pulls it off, though...?
* I do like this episode better than the last one; Bulma has some villains to interact with, and her plan to trick them makes sense.
* It is a bit lame how Freeza's goons go from "yeah we escaped the crab" to "oh no the crab's got us" one second later. They didn't even get distracted or anything, the crab just... grabbed them.
* Can anyone explain to me why Kuririn alternates between Saichôrô-san and Saichôrô-sama?


- Do you think the filler additions for Bulma actively help her feel like a more active/relevant figure in this arc?
Active? Sure. Relevant? Ehhhh. The main thing that could have made Bulma relevant this arc is her ability to speak Namekian! Yeah, remember that? Alas, beyond operating the spaceship, that skill was never seen or heard from again. The story could've gone in a direction where Kuririn and Gohan needed to rely on Bulma to summon the dragon. Of course, Dende fills that role already... I dunno, it could've been written so that Dende gets killed at the last second so all hope is lost because we can't summon the dragon anymore and - OH WAIT, Bulma to the rescue!


Favorite character: Sorry, Bulma, but your episodes weren't quite compelling enough. Vegeta easily wins it this week - can't help but begrudgingly admire the son of a bitch for bamboozling Freeza the way he did. And then, even after becoming livid with rage, he continued to play it smart and waited until he sensed Kuririn and Gohan making a move.
Previous favorites: Raditz, Gohan, the saber-toothed tiger, Kaiô, Tenshinhan, Vegeta(1), Kuririn(1), Bulma, Vegeta(2), Kuririn(2), the Grand Elder.

[gaberparadiso]

Episode 59

General thoughts: okay, I don't think EVERY filler is bad. I'm quite open-minded to accept non-canon material, as long as it's ENTERTAINING. This episode ISN'T ENTERTAINING. Or better, I quite like Goku's training cutaway and Freezer using his Death Comet all over Namek to express his hatred towards Vegeta. That's it, because the MAIN plot is BORING, as it proves why Bulma's presence at this point of the arc is USELESS: I wish they'd let her going back to Earth, because she doesn't bring nothing valuable to the story and nor to entertainment. I cannot absolutely deny Hiromi Tsuru was flawless at voicing her, but I'm referring to her character, because she might be a genius, but let's not forget she's also incredibly annoying. She simply spends her time complaining and bitching about everything. Even though she was like this in the original DB, too, and wasn't drastically flanderized like Chichi, did we really need it THAT MUCH? I mean, WHAT'S THE GODDAMN POINT OF GIVING HER A REAL EPISODE? Okay, it makes sense for her to have a nightmare with Vegeta threatening her, BUT it doesn't make ANY SENSE to have a really ASININE PLEA for this specific bloody episode. She loses her DB, it falls into the surface of a lake and the blue-haired nepotist doesn't want to soak her nepotistic boots. I get they tried to bring back some DB-esque adventure, but NOT in this very context. This episode is STILL set on a nearly deserted planet, with an evil alien who MIGHT become her future husband, and a wicked space tyrant seeking revenge. Like Professor Oak says "There's a time and place for everything". THIS is definitely NOT the time and place.

Entertainment factor: really boring, but Matsuura's direction is quite solid. This is his third and last episode of the series, though.

Animation: this aspect pisses me off even MORE: this is probably Last House's solidest episode art-wise. Uchiyama's corrections are pretty strong here. The best aspect is undeniably Ohara and Shida being in this episode, as expected, and thanks to their outputs, I can't give a much lower rating to this waste of time of an episode, especially knowing their great skills at drawing and animating. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 0372669440 https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 7727409153 This is HOW the Vegeta vs Zarbon rematch should've been. Clearly much better animated than an important fight. Eh.

Music: the BGM placement is also good: there's plenty of OG DB tracks, like M121, M518 and even Centipede Of The Future. In addition, we hear Anticipation for the first time, whose origin is still uncertain: judging from its leitmotiv, it should belong to M9** soundtrack (movie 2), but it's both unreleased and unused in the movie.

Overall: 4,5/10. Music is on point, animation is on point, direction is on point... but the episode content definitely isn't.

[gaberparadiso]

Episode 60

General thoughts: just like the previous episode, it's so boring I don't even care. It's just about Bulma dealing with two other annoying and meaningless minions of Freezer's army. Again, there's nothing much to say, apart from how much boredom this filler brings. The Goku cutaway isn't even as good as the last one, to be honest. Nonetheless, the ending part is not that bad, since AT THE VERY LEAST it follows the main storyline. The Ginyu Force also get a quite cool introduction while travelling to Namek.

Entertainment factor: so so dull. Ueda's direction isn't even that great, but to his credit, this episode needed some interesting content to begin with.

Animation: the ending part is well storyboarded, with Ueda's trademark use of colors, but that's it. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 6591903744 Art-wise, it's all right. Shindo's corrections are clearly dominant, with only scarce 3 weeks available. Animation-wise, nothing much to say: the Goku cutaway pales in comparison with Shida's work from the previous episode. It's not bad, but nothing that fantastic, either. https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/dra ... 0601170831

Music: okay-ish placement, although M707, an upbeat track, when Goku throws his ki blast while training... is BIZARRE. M518 at the end sounds plain glorious.

Overall: 4/10. BOOOOORING.

- Do you think the filler additions for Bulma actively help her feel like a more active/relevant figure in this arc?

- She's indeed active, but definitely NOT relevant. Like I stated previously, we're no longer dealing with OG DB, which focused more on ADVENTURE. This is the Namek saga, in which Gohan and Krillin have to deal with a wicked Saiyan and a cruel space tyrant. There's absolutely NO place for annoying characters like Bulma. She should've been sent home, because she gets in the way too often. Besides, the worst thing is that her annoyance isn't EVEN OVER. I can't definitely wait for her umpteenth appearance 29 episodes later, when she'll interrupt a major fight with her pointless BS.