Which did it better, GT or Super?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Logania
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Logania » Tue May 01, 2018 1:49 am

Grimlock wrote:
Logania wrote:UI Goku being a stronger case, copy and pasting moveset from other characters to make them quicker)
Aside from the grab/throw which really Dimps took it from Gogeta, I don't remember playing with any other character that has the same moveset as Ultra Instinct Goku.
He has combo moves (well I guess animations) taken from

Rosé Goku Black
Vegito SSGSS
SSJ4 Gogeta
SSJ4 Goku
Goku
Adult Gohan

He has around 2 new combo moves dedicated to him like the knee attack to flying punch he did on Jiren at the end of the light attack combo and I think the end heavy combo attack where he sticks his palm out and hits with a ki cannon is new (or that's taken from Ki Blast Cannon)
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue May 01, 2018 4:25 am

Logania wrote:
SupremeKai25 wrote:Black is much more popular than Baby, who isn't even in famous videogames like Xenoverse 2 and FigtherZ. Probably because Baby, unlike Black, Future Zamasu and Fused Zamasu, is not popular and iconic enough to be included in those games
Baby not being popular enough, yes, but for Black and Zamasu being in compared to Baby isn't really a fair case.

During Xenoverse 2 and FighterZ, Super was still currently airing and for Xenoverse 2 specifically the Black arc was the current arc. They wanna release the current new material for dat money, just like GT being the most new material during Budokai 3 and the Tenkaichi series. It's understandable, although for Xenoverse 2 they make characters too quickly, so much that they dont wait for characters added to finish in the anime so base Black Goku, Jiren, and UI Goku have such bland movesets (Base Black Goku and UI Goku being a stronger case, copy and pasting moveset from other characters to make them quicker)

Baby not being in besides the Great Ape form irritates me though lol
Yes. All jokes aside, I honestly don't see how Zamasu is a rip-off of Baby. Sure, their concept might be similiar (and Black might have been inspired from Ginyu too), but their execution is radically different. Baby wanted to create an army of followers and so infected every Earthling as he wanted to rule over them. Zamasu didn't want any of that. He didn't want to rule over mortals, he wanted to annihilate them and create his perfect utopia devoid of mortals and Gods (Zamasu even states that there was only need of ONE God). And, honestly, just saying that Zamasu is a rip-off of Baby and Black is a rip-off of Ginyu is quite naive to say the least.

Also, why did they decide to include Omenga Shenron and even Super 17 in Xenoverse 2 but not Baby?

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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Grimlock » Tue May 01, 2018 7:42 am

Logania wrote:He has combo moves (well I guess animations) taken from

Rosé Goku Black
Vegito SSGSS
SSJ4 Gogeta
SSJ4 Goku
Goku
Adult Gohan
Played with all those, neither has Ultra Instinct Goku moves.
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Potara-Warrior96 » Tue May 01, 2018 7:53 am

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Logania wrote:
SupremeKai25 wrote:Black is much more popular than Baby, who isn't even in famous videogames like Xenoverse 2 and FigtherZ. Probably because Baby, unlike Black, Future Zamasu and Fused Zamasu, is not popular and iconic enough to be included in those games
Baby not being popular enough, yes, but for Black and Zamasu being in compared to Baby isn't really a fair case.

During Xenoverse 2 and FighterZ, Super was still currently airing and for Xenoverse 2 specifically the Black arc was the current arc. They wanna release the current new material for dat money, just like GT being the most new material during Budokai 3 and the Tenkaichi series. It's understandable, although for Xenoverse 2 they make characters too quickly, so much that they dont wait for characters added to finish in the anime so base Black Goku, Jiren, and UI Goku have such bland movesets (Base Black Goku and UI Goku being a stronger case, copy and pasting moveset from other characters to make them quicker)

Baby not being in besides the Great Ape form irritates me though lol
Yes. All jokes aside, I honestly don't see how Zamasu is a rip-off of Baby. Sure, their concept might be similiar (and Black might have been inspired from Ginyu too), but their execution is radically different. Baby wanted to create an army of followers and so infected every Earthling as he wanted to rule over them. Zamasu didn't want any of that. He didn't want to rule over mortals, he wanted to annihilate them and create his perfect utopia devoid of mortals and Gods (Zamasu even states that there was only need of ONE God). And, honestly, just saying that Zamasu is a rip-off of Baby and Black is a rip-off of Ginyu is quite naive to say the least.

Also, why did they decide to include Omenga Shenron and even Super 17 in Xenoverse 2 but not Baby?
The fact that you needed state character canonicity as a argument said more about your naivety if anything.

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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue May 01, 2018 8:04 am

The fact that you needed state character canonicity as a argument said more about your naivety if anything.
A single joke is enough to trigger you? Amusing. And no, I am not naive, perhaps you are, thinking that Zamasu is just a copy of Baby. This proves that you have not even watched that arc of Super.

In fact, who even knows or cares about Baby? No one discusses about him, no one ever brings him up as a villain on various discussions on all social medias, unlike Zamasu. Even fodder like Nappa is more popular and memorable than Baby.

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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Master Xar » Tue May 01, 2018 10:37 am

SupremeKai25 wrote:
The fact that you needed state character canonicity as a argument said more about your naivety if anything.
A single joke is enough to trigger you? Amusing. And no, I am not naive, perhaps you are, thinking that Zamasu is just a copy of Baby. This proves that you have not even watched that arc of Super.

In fact, who even knows or cares about Baby? No one discusses about him, no one ever brings him up as a villain on various discussions on all social medias, unlike Zamasu. Even fodder like Nappa is more popular and memorable than Baby.
Kinda has a point here, I mean i hear all this talk about how Baby is some top villain due to his backstory, that he was better than most Z villains, but no one ever really talks about the guy, no one brings him up, no one puts him on any top villain lists, even secondary villains and henchmen like the Ginyus are often more talked about than Baby let alone Black and Zamasu. Feels like false praise to me.

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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Timetraveller » Tue May 01, 2018 10:45 am

PFM18 wrote: There is nothing disingenuous about criticizing GT for having a lack of character development.

Pan remained the same throughout the entire series she was the same whiny brat kid throughout the entire story. Obviously she was proud to call Goku her grandpa but that wasn't exactly character development she always respected Goku and nothing about her character developed at all. She cries when he leaves but she also cries when she sees Golden Oozaru Goku, it isn't exactly groundbreaking for her to cry when something bad happens to Goku. The Piccolo death was handled extremely well and I should give credit for it, forgot to mention it when I mentioned the minimal number of things GT did well. This was a cool moment but it wasn't exactly developed throughout GT nor was Piccolo's character changed in a tangible way before during or after this happening. it was just a really cool moment for Piccolo that had some meaning now that people weren't going to rely on the dragonballs. GT Vegeta is not developed instead they give an out of character iteration of Vegeta that contradicts his prideful ways and his love for battle and thirst for increasing power. He is a glorified stay at home dad that is pathetic and weak. Mr. Satan was the same as he was during the end of the Buu saga, EoZ. Nothing changed about his character. Goten and Trunks "actually" did things but this is a strange comparison to Super because in Super they are still very young and in GT they are adults. Still, Goten and Trunks no longer have their duo dynamic and just kind of become lame earthlings. I guess they "develop" in the sense that they change from what they were in DBZ but that is just a reflection of the fact that they are several years older than they were just changing because of generic changes that come with aging. You say that Super made Goten and Trunks "background characters" as though they weren't also background characters during GT.
they did nothing of significance in GT the closest thing the two of them got to being relevant was when Trunks went searching for the Black Star Dragonballs.(Which by the way was the worst arc in the franchise.)None of the things you mentioned are actually examples of legitimate character development but I can't blame you because there wasn't any in GT.

There's nothing disingenuous about any sort of criticism. period. I encourage it, especially toward an on-going product like Super since fan feedback helps to improve it. What's dishonest is when you make false statements like "in fact, nobody ever received any development in GT" and use hyperbole to back up your bias.

C'mon, you really going to argue that Pan at the end of GT was the exact same as Pan at the beginning of GT? That there was no development at all? I mean the difference is almost as clear as day. Compare episode 1 when she sees Goku for the first time as a kid vs when Goku leaves in the final episode. This is the result of her spending more time with him. A 50-year-old GT Vegeta not being obsessed with Goku anymore and settling down with his family IS character development. Pathetic and weak to you (certainly wasn't weak in the actual show) but that's the direction they were going for in Z when he made that speech and towards the end of Super where he initially declines Goku's invitation to train and fight in the tournament to be with Bulma who was due to give birth. The comment about being a stay at home dad is hilarious to me because that's essentially what he is. The man has never had a job and will never need one due to being married to Bulma. He spends all his time training which is what he probably did in GT. He never does anything that's a complete 180 of his character like when he put on an apron and became chef Vegeta or when danced about in front of Beerus.

These "generic changes" that come with aging is STILL character development in the sense that the writers had to come up with these changes instead of lazily reusing the same character molds from previous series. They're not kids anymore. Goten and Trunks are around 14-15 and GT is only set 5 years after that. They're lame earthlings because they ARE earthlings, raised on Earth in times of peace (as mentioned in EoZ) .They weren't going to be power hungry, violent warriors and I'm glad they developed into their own characters instead of being Goku and Vegeta clones. Similar to Gohan but completely different personalities and ambitions. Lastly, Trunks was featured as a protagonist in the first arc and Goten had some relevancy to the plot in the Baby saga. That's more than they did in 131 episodes of Super.

Nah, they're examples of character development. Look up the definition :lol: At least more development than anything we see in Super.

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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by sintzu » Tue May 01, 2018 10:49 am

Master Xar wrote: Kinda has a point here, I mean i hear all this talk about how Baby is some top villain due to his backstory, that he was better than most Z villains, but no one ever really talks about the guy, no one brings him up, no one puts him on any top villain lists, even secondary villains and henchmen like the Ginyus are often more talked about than Baby let alone Black and Zamasu. Feels like false praise to me.
I think it's because he's part of GT, which a good amount of people don't like despite liking some concepts like Baby, Ssj4 and the shadow dragons.

I personally think Baby is a good villain but he would've been a lot better had he been after the Saiyans in order to prevent what happened to him from happening to others, but we never really got that as he'd act just as bad as any other villain most of the time. I guess they didn't want the heroes (mainly Goku) to look like a villain but it would've been very interesting based on the amount of blood the saiyans had on their hands, despite it not being Goku's fault.
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Logania » Tue May 01, 2018 2:40 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Logania wrote:He has combo moves (well I guess animations) taken from

Rosé Goku Black
Vegito SSGSS
SSJ4 Gogeta
SSJ4 Goku
Goku
Adult Gohan
Played with all those, neither has Ultra Instinct Goku moves.
Then you're not looking very hard.

Rapid punches in light combo are Vegitos. Rapid kicks, the fist at the end of the light, heavy, heavy and the launcher at the near end of the heavy combo is Gokus. The grab and back hit are Gogetas. The spinning arm attack at the end that he teleports is Gohans, and a few punches at the beginning are SSJ4 Goku and Rosé, with the light break coming from SSJ4 Goku.
"I can't increase my ability through some kind of noisy transformation the way Frost and you Saiyans do. If I wanna become more lethal, I don't have the luxury of cutting corners, I just have to do it the old-fashioned way.

Combat is craft. What matters most is not raw power, but the skill by which you hone it."

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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Lord Frieza » Tue May 01, 2018 3:11 pm

On the subject of Zamasu's origins, while admittedly he has some passing rebalance to Baby and thats really just his white hair (which all kaioshin have) and his stealing of Goku's body, really Zamasu's arc seems like a reworking of Toyable's AF fan comic.

Zamasu being based on East Kaioshin, who in the story become corrupted after being beaten by Buu and left for dead. She was displeased that Kaioshin did not wield the greatest power in the universe and became obsessed with correcting that. She apparently created Frieza with her own DNA and that of Cold but after his defeat tracked down Goku and used his DNA to make a saiyan/kaioshin hybrid named Xicor.

Xicor was Goku's second son, younger then Gohan and older than Goten. He's basically spent his who life being brainwashed by his mother and came to earth to kill everyone so he could clame the title of strongest and rule the universe.

Image

As you can see the basic plot element for both stories are very similur. Plus Xicor's colour scheme of white, green, red and black are all the colours used one way or another for Zamasu and Black and almost completely for Merged Zamasu.

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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Grimlock » Tue May 01, 2018 3:17 pm

Logania wrote:Then you're not looking very hard.

Rapid punches in light combo are Vegitos. Rapid kicks, the fist at the end of the light, heavy, heavy and the launcher at the near end of the heavy combo is Gokus. The grab and back hit are Gogetas. The spinning arm attack at the end that he teleports is Gohans, and a few punches at the beginning are SSJ4 Goku and Rosé, with the light break coming from SSJ4 Goku.
You cannot be serious. :|

Obviously I'm not looking very hard, this is not something to be looked very hard. I could say everyone punches and kicks the same then, because that's pretty much what they do. I got completely different feeling while playing with each one of them and that is what matters. This is not a Goku Black case, Ultra Instinct Goku feels unique and that is enough.
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Potara-Warrior96 » Tue May 01, 2018 3:51 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
The fact that you needed state character canonicity as a argument said more about your naivety if anything.
A single joke is enough to trigger you? Amusing. And no, I am not naive, perhaps you are, thinking that Zamasu is just a copy of Baby. This proves that you have not even watched that arc of Super.

In fact, who even knows or cares about Baby? No one discusses about him, no one ever brings him up as a villain on various discussions on all social medias, unlike Zamasu. Even fodder like Nappa is more popular and memorable than Baby.
I'm not triggered at all actually but nice try though. I'm just really tired of the whole"canon = quality" argument that so many fans fill the need to throw out as if it invalidates anything. Also I never made the argument that Black is a baby rip-off (though I can understand why many people would make that statement).

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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Logania » Tue May 01, 2018 3:58 pm

Grimlock wrote:You cannot be serious. :|

Obviously I'm not looking very hard, this is not something to be looked very hard. I could say everyone punches and kicks the same then, because that's pretty much what they do. I got completely different feeling while playing with each one of them and that is what matters. This is not a Goku Black case, Ultra Instinct Goku feels unique and that is enough.
I'm very serious.

I don't care how you feel playing the characters, that's not what I've been addressing and it doesn't matter with what we're talking about.

You can say everyone punches and kickes the same, but you'd be wrong, as almost everyone on the roster has different movesets. There's a difference between characters having similar combos and literally copying and pasting old moves off characters, which is what they did for Ultra Instinct Goku, a paid DLC character.

They've essentially done what modders do and just mix and match material they have for a character because, like I said before, they want to get the characters out as soon as possible.
"I can't increase my ability through some kind of noisy transformation the way Frost and you Saiyans do. If I wanna become more lethal, I don't have the luxury of cutting corners, I just have to do it the old-fashioned way.

Combat is craft. What matters most is not raw power, but the skill by which you hone it."

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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by PsionicWarrior » Tue May 01, 2018 4:04 pm

(though I can understand why many people would make that statement).
I really don't lol
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue May 01, 2018 4:40 pm

By the way Baby fans, you do realize that if Zamasu is a rip-off of Baby, then Baby himself is a rip-off of Garlic Jr., right? Since Garlic Jr. was the first villain who used a nefarious sorcery to brainwash the people of Earth. Therefore, Baby is not a unique and creative concept.

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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Logania » Tue May 01, 2018 6:17 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:By the way Baby fans, you do realize that if Zamasu is a rip-off of Baby, then Baby himself is a rip-off of Garlic Jr., right? Since Garlic Jr. was the first villain who used a nefarious sorcery to brainwash the people of Earth. Therefore, Baby is not a unique and creative concept.
No, because Garlic Jr. sucks lol

For a de-rail, I'm not getting why people are so dead set on having unique concepts and original story telling and bashing similar ideas, when Dragon Ball recycles everything. Concepts for techniques, villains, story arcs, transformations, character designs, special attacks. It's not the most creative series, and the best concepts and characters come from non-canon material and movies. If you break down anything from Dragon Ball, it becomes similar to a lot of other material in the series.
"I can't increase my ability through some kind of noisy transformation the way Frost and you Saiyans do. If I wanna become more lethal, I don't have the luxury of cutting corners, I just have to do it the old-fashioned way.

Combat is craft. What matters most is not raw power, but the skill by which you hone it."

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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by PsionicWarrior » Tue May 01, 2018 6:51 pm

I know some people prefer or simply like GT but if we want to compare which "did it better" let's see facts lol
Supreme authority of the interwebz wikipedia says:
In contrast to Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT received mixed to negative reviews. IGN called it "downright repellent," mentioning that the material and characters had lost their novelty and fun. They also criticized the GT character designs of Vegeta and a few other characters as being "goofy".[27] Anime News Network (ANN) also gave negative comments about the anime, mentioning that the fights from the series were "a very simple childish exercise" and that many other anime were superior. The series' plot was also criticized for giving a formula that was already used in its predecessors.[28] Although, it did call it "a fun ride when not taken very seriously."[29] THEM Anime Reviews criticized the humor and characters stating, "the humor is forced, juvenile, and stupid, the characters are trite, and the villains are ugly, power-hungry monsters with no personality whatsoever". They, however, gave some praise to the animation and music stating, "At least Toei went to the trouble of bringing up the animation, and especially the music, up a notch. Some of the backgrounds can actually be quite detailed, and the animation is definitely leagues above Dragon Ball Z."[30]
Dragon Ball Super received positive reviews from fans and critics. First impressions of the series' debut episode were mostly positive with the quality of animation being praised the most.[59] Richard Eisenbeis of Kotaku praised the series' title sequence and said "My middle-school self is so happy right now, you guys."[60] Jamieson Cox of The Verge also praised the title sequence and said that "Dragon Ball Super's intro will have you begging for its North American release". Cox was also surprised that, considering how popular the franchise is, the series did not launch internationally at the same time. He called it "a move that wouldn't be unprecedented" giving Sailor Moon Crystal as an example.[61] Lucas Siegel of Comicbook.com praised the debut episode for its "laid back plotline" and animation style and said that the debut was "very much put out as a "slice of life" episode". Siegel also noted that the premiere episode was more of a "where are they now" introduction to the series that will eventually help build anticipation for "where will they be."[62]

However, the fifth episode received harsh criticism from Japanese and Western audiences due to its poor animation style compared to the previous four episodes.[63][64] Dragon Ball Kai and Resurrection 'F' producer Norihiro Hayashida felt that the criticism was overblown. He said that people were criticizing the entire series based on a few bad sequences that were done by new animators. He went on to explain a quality decline in the anime industry that he believes is the result of studios cutting time given for post-production and not allowing for reviews of the final product.[65] Toei Animation improved the animation for episode five's Blu-ray and DVD release.[66]

The twenty-fourth episode of the series also received harsh criticism from both Japanese and western audiences due to its poor animation style, which continued throughout several episodes compared to its previous episodes. However, the Champa Arc was praised for improving its animation. Episode 39 of the series was critically acclaimed for its improved animation and praised fighting sequences. Attack of the Fanboy reported that "Dragon Ball Super" episode 39 may be the best installment of the series to date.[67] Goku and Hit's fight "starts off explosively from the get-go."[68] The Future Trunks Arc also received generally positive reviews from fans and critics alike, with IGN's Shawn Saris acclaiming Episode 66, stating that, "Episode 66 of Dragon Ball Super has a few missteps but ultimately leads to a great final battle with Zamasu."[69]

The fifth arc of the anime, the "Universe Survival Arc," has garnered the most positive reception, of all the arcs. Particular praise have been given towards many of the action sequences, and improvement in animation quality and design. Several episodes such as 109/110 and 116 have been cited as some of the series's best episodes;[70][71] WatchMojo.com even listed the fight between Goku and Jiren in episodes 109/110 as the best anime fight of 2017.[72] However, ComicVerse was harsher stating the animation was inconsistent, plot elements from previous series were retconned, some new characters lacked originality, and the lack of consistency between power level citing for example how Android 17 could easily spar against Goku who has obtained god-like powers in previous story arcs.[73]

All four volumes of Dragon Ball Super's manga adaptation have charted on Oricon's weekly list of the best-selling manga; volumes one and two sold 29,995 and 56,947 copies in their debut weeks respectively.[74][75] Volume three was the fourth best-selling for its week with 92,114 copies sold,[76] and volume four was fourth its week with 150,889.[77] According to Nielsen BookScan, the English version of volume one was the second best-selling graphic novel of May 2017,[78] the ninth of June,[79] the fourteenth of July,[80] and the eighteenth of August.[81]

The show's penultimate episode and the finale were live streamed in several cities in Mexico, El Salvador, Ecuador, and Nicaragua for free in public venues.[82][83]
Cheers lol

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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Rakurai » Tue May 01, 2018 8:21 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:I know some people prefer or simply like GT but if we want to compare which "did it better" let's see facts lol
Supreme authority of the interwebz wikipedia says:
In contrast to Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT received mixed to negative reviews. IGN called it "downright repellent," mentioning that the material and characters had lost their novelty and fun. They also criticized the GT character designs of Vegeta and a few other characters as being "goofy".[27] Anime News Network (ANN) also gave negative comments about the anime, mentioning that the fights from the series were "a very simple childish exercise" and that many other anime were superior. The series' plot was also criticized for giving a formula that was already used in its predecessors.[28] Although, it did call it "a fun ride when not taken very seriously."[29] THEM Anime Reviews criticized the humor and characters stating, "the humor is forced, juvenile, and stupid, the characters are trite, and the villains are ugly, power-hungry monsters with no personality whatsoever". They, however, gave some praise to the animation and music stating, "At least Toei went to the trouble of bringing up the animation, and especially the music, up a notch. Some of the backgrounds can actually be quite detailed, and the animation is definitely leagues above Dragon Ball Z."[30]
Dragon Ball Super received positive reviews from fans and critics. First impressions of the series' debut episode were mostly positive with the quality of animation being praised the most.[59] Richard Eisenbeis of Kotaku praised the series' title sequence and said "My middle-school self is so happy right now, you guys."[60] Jamieson Cox of The Verge also praised the title sequence and said that "Dragon Ball Super's intro will have you begging for its North American release". Cox was also surprised that, considering how popular the franchise is, the series did not launch internationally at the same time. He called it "a move that wouldn't be unprecedented" giving Sailor Moon Crystal as an example.[61] Lucas Siegel of Comicbook.com praised the debut episode for its "laid back plotline" and animation style and said that the debut was "very much put out as a "slice of life" episode". Siegel also noted that the premiere episode was more of a "where are they now" introduction to the series that will eventually help build anticipation for "where will they be."[62]

However, the fifth episode received harsh criticism from Japanese and Western audiences due to its poor animation style compared to the previous four episodes.[63][64] Dragon Ball Kai and Resurrection 'F' producer Norihiro Hayashida felt that the criticism was overblown. He said that people were criticizing the entire series based on a few bad sequences that were done by new animators. He went on to explain a quality decline in the anime industry that he believes is the result of studios cutting time given for post-production and not allowing for reviews of the final product.[65] Toei Animation improved the animation for episode five's Blu-ray and DVD release.[66]

The twenty-fourth episode of the series also received harsh criticism from both Japanese and western audiences due to its poor animation style, which continued throughout several episodes compared to its previous episodes. However, the Champa Arc was praised for improving its animation. Episode 39 of the series was critically acclaimed for its improved animation and praised fighting sequences. Attack of the Fanboy reported that "Dragon Ball Super" episode 39 may be the best installment of the series to date.[67] Goku and Hit's fight "starts off explosively from the get-go."[68] The Future Trunks Arc also received generally positive reviews from fans and critics alike, with IGN's Shawn Saris acclaiming Episode 66, stating that, "Episode 66 of Dragon Ball Super has a few missteps but ultimately leads to a great final battle with Zamasu."[69]

The fifth arc of the anime, the "Universe Survival Arc," has garnered the most positive reception, of all the arcs. Particular praise have been given towards many of the action sequences, and improvement in animation quality and design. Several episodes such as 109/110 and 116 have been cited as some of the series's best episodes;[70][71] WatchMojo.com even listed the fight between Goku and Jiren in episodes 109/110 as the best anime fight of 2017.[72] However, ComicVerse was harsher stating the animation was inconsistent, plot elements from previous series were retconned, some new characters lacked originality, and the lack of consistency between power level citing for example how Android 17 could easily spar against Goku who has obtained god-like powers in previous story arcs.[73]

All four volumes of Dragon Ball Super's manga adaptation have charted on Oricon's weekly list of the best-selling manga; volumes one and two sold 29,995 and 56,947 copies in their debut weeks respectively.[74][75] Volume three was the fourth best-selling for its week with 92,114 copies sold,[76] and volume four was fourth its week with 150,889.[77] According to Nielsen BookScan, the English version of volume one was the second best-selling graphic novel of May 2017,[78] the ninth of June,[79] the fourteenth of July,[80] and the eighteenth of August.[81]

The show's penultimate episode and the finale were live streamed in several cities in Mexico, El Salvador, Ecuador, and Nicaragua for free in public venues.[82][83]
Cheers lol
No offense, but are we really going to use Wikipedia of all fucking sites for reference? I literally make Wikipedia pages myself, what would stop me from making changes to those articles?

Like who the hell are these people even? What gives them more authority to judge the quality of a series than an entire fanbase alone? The people who wrote these articles obviously had biased agendas.
Richard Eisenbeis of Kotaku praised the series' title sequence and said "My middle-school self is so happy right now, you guys."[60]
Nostalgia much? This is the type of critical review which we're going to compare the quality of GT vs Super then?
Super Dragon Ball Heroes Universe Mission translation compilation here. All translations are done and owned by me.

SDBH 9th anniversary the secret development interview here. Learn how original SDBH characters such as SS3 Raditz, SS4 Bardock, Robel, & more were conceived!

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Tai Lung
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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by Tai Lung » Tue May 01, 2018 8:38 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:By the way Baby fans, you do realize that if Zamasu is a rip-off of Baby, then Baby himself is a rip-off of Garlic Jr., right? Since Garlic Jr. was the first villain who used a nefarious sorcery to brainwash the people of Earth. Therefore, Baby is not a unique and creative concept.
lthe funny thing is that it is not at all, only small similarities such as buu and king piccolo separate their evilness from their kindness.
is different in the case of the dr lychee on which baby is based
Lord Frieza wrote:On the subject of Zamasu's origins, while admittedly he has some passing rebalance to Baby and thats really just his white hair (which all kaioshin have) and his stealing of Goku's body, really Zamasu's arc seems like a reworking of Toyable's AF fan comic.

Zamasu being based on East Kaioshin, who in the story become corrupted after being beaten by Buu and left for dead. She was displeased that Kaioshin did not wield the greatest power in the universe and became obsessed with correcting that. She apparently created Frieza with her own DNA and that of Cold but after his defeat tracked down Goku and used his DNA to make a saiyan/kaioshin hybrid named Xicor.

Xicor was Goku's second son, younger then Gohan and older than Goten. He's basically spent his who life being brainwashed by his mother and came to earth to kill everyone so he could clame the title of strongest and rule the universe.

As you can see the basic plot element for both stories are very similur. Plus Xicor's colour scheme of white, green, red and black are all the colours used one way or another for Zamasu and Black and almost completely for Merged Zamasu.
toriyama really refused this when mention that he created to zamasu / black based on kamen raider black

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Re: Which did it better, GT or Super?

Post by PFM18 » Tue May 01, 2018 9:47 pm

Rakurai wrote:
PsionicWarrior wrote:I know some people prefer or simply like GT but if we want to compare which "did it better" let's see facts lol
Supreme authority of the interwebz wikipedia says:
In contrast to Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT received mixed to negative reviews. IGN called it "downright repellent," mentioning that the material and characters had lost their novelty and fun. They also criticized the GT character designs of Vegeta and a few other characters as being "goofy".[27] Anime News Network (ANN) also gave negative comments about the anime, mentioning that the fights from the series were "a very simple childish exercise" and that many other anime were superior. The series' plot was also criticized for giving a formula that was already used in its predecessors.[28] Although, it did call it "a fun ride when not taken very seriously."[29] THEM Anime Reviews criticized the humor and characters stating, "the humor is forced, juvenile, and stupid, the characters are trite, and the villains are ugly, power-hungry monsters with no personality whatsoever". They, however, gave some praise to the animation and music stating, "At least Toei went to the trouble of bringing up the animation, and especially the music, up a notch. Some of the backgrounds can actually be quite detailed, and the animation is definitely leagues above Dragon Ball Z."[30]
Dragon Ball Super received positive reviews from fans and critics. First impressions of the series' debut episode were mostly positive with the quality of animation being praised the most.[59] Richard Eisenbeis of Kotaku praised the series' title sequence and said "My middle-school self is so happy right now, you guys."[60] Jamieson Cox of The Verge also praised the title sequence and said that "Dragon Ball Super's intro will have you begging for its North American release". Cox was also surprised that, considering how popular the franchise is, the series did not launch internationally at the same time. He called it "a move that wouldn't be unprecedented" giving Sailor Moon Crystal as an example.[61] Lucas Siegel of Comicbook.com praised the debut episode for its "laid back plotline" and animation style and said that the debut was "very much put out as a "slice of life" episode". Siegel also noted that the premiere episode was more of a "where are they now" introduction to the series that will eventually help build anticipation for "where will they be."[62]

However, the fifth episode received harsh criticism from Japanese and Western audiences due to its poor animation style compared to the previous four episodes.[63][64] Dragon Ball Kai and Resurrection 'F' producer Norihiro Hayashida felt that the criticism was overblown. He said that people were criticizing the entire series based on a few bad sequences that were done by new animators. He went on to explain a quality decline in the anime industry that he believes is the result of studios cutting time given for post-production and not allowing for reviews of the final product.[65] Toei Animation improved the animation for episode five's Blu-ray and DVD release.[66]

The twenty-fourth episode of the series also received harsh criticism from both Japanese and western audiences due to its poor animation style, which continued throughout several episodes compared to its previous episodes. However, the Champa Arc was praised for improving its animation. Episode 39 of the series was critically acclaimed for its improved animation and praised fighting sequences. Attack of the Fanboy reported that "Dragon Ball Super" episode 39 may be the best installment of the series to date.[67] Goku and Hit's fight "starts off explosively from the get-go."[68] The Future Trunks Arc also received generally positive reviews from fans and critics alike, with IGN's Shawn Saris acclaiming Episode 66, stating that, "Episode 66 of Dragon Ball Super has a few missteps but ultimately leads to a great final battle with Zamasu."[69]

The fifth arc of the anime, the "Universe Survival Arc," has garnered the most positive reception, of all the arcs. Particular praise have been given towards many of the action sequences, and improvement in animation quality and design. Several episodes such as 109/110 and 116 have been cited as some of the series's best episodes;[70][71] WatchMojo.com even listed the fight between Goku and Jiren in episodes 109/110 as the best anime fight of 2017.[72] However, ComicVerse was harsher stating the animation was inconsistent, plot elements from previous series were retconned, some new characters lacked originality, and the lack of consistency between power level citing for example how Android 17 could easily spar against Goku who has obtained god-like powers in previous story arcs.[73]

All four volumes of Dragon Ball Super's manga adaptation have charted on Oricon's weekly list of the best-selling manga; volumes one and two sold 29,995 and 56,947 copies in their debut weeks respectively.[74][75] Volume three was the fourth best-selling for its week with 92,114 copies sold,[76] and volume four was fourth its week with 150,889.[77] According to Nielsen BookScan, the English version of volume one was the second best-selling graphic novel of May 2017,[78] the ninth of June,[79] the fourteenth of July,[80] and the eighteenth of August.[81]

The show's penultimate episode and the finale were live streamed in several cities in Mexico, El Salvador, Ecuador, and Nicaragua for free in public venues.[82][83]
Cheers lol
No offense, but are we really going to use Wikipedia of all fucking sites for reference? I literally make Wikipedia pages myself, what would stop me from making changes to those articles?

Like who the hell are these people even? What gives them more authority to judge the quality of a series than an entire fanbase alone? The people who wrote these articles obviously had biased agendas.
Richard Eisenbeis of Kotaku praised the series' title sequence and said "My middle-school self is so happy right now, you guys."[60]
Nostalgia much? This is the type of critical review which we're going to compare the quality of GT vs Super then?
Wikipedia is an entirely reliable source. There's actually everything stopping you from changing those articles. You would have to file a request with evidence and cite your sources like they do. They are not simply giving their opinion they are just recording the results of these critics observing how well received each series is. I don't think it is groundbreaking news when they say that GT wasn't as well received/not as popular as Super. Qaaman had a poll asking people which series they liked better and 90% of the votes went to DBS. Ultimately it is up to your opinion but IMO Super does almost everything better than GT did.

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