Does the sexualization of Bulma at the start of the series bother anyone?

[KBABZ]

Saying goodbye to pervy old men would be the least we'd have to worry about if Japan ever gives into political correctness. I'm really happy to see people like the Japanese still stand up for themselves and what they believe in instead of jumping onto the bandwagon of backing down on things whenever some nobody is "offended".

This isn't about a culture standing up for themselves, this is about not objectifying women and turning them into sexual objects for the sake of bad comedy and giving the fourteen year olds in the audience an erection.

[Zephyr]

I'm really happy to see people like the Japanese still stand up for themselves and what they believe in instead of jumping onto the bandwagon of backing down on things whenever some nobody is "offended".

What if avoiding offending others, when it is possible and wise to do so, is something that one sincerely believes in? I don't see how that constitutes bandwagoning, anymore than automatically scoffing at any notion of taking others into consideration, and regarding it as "evil PC nonsense".

[JulieYBM]

Saying goodbye to pervy old men would be the least we'd have to worry about if Japan ever gives into political correctness. I'm really happy to see people like the Japanese still stand up for themselves and what they believe in instead of jumping onto the bandwagon of backing down on things whenever some nobody is "offended".

This isn't about a culture standing up for themselves, this is about not objectifying women and turning them into sexual objects for the sake of bad comedy and giving the fourteen year olds in the audience an erection.

Who is hurt by these things happening to a comic? If horny comics made readers law-breaking, immoral people who assaulted the innocent there would be far more crime than there is now.

One can enjoy ReCoom breaking Gohan's neck without that glorifying violence. It's a mighty big double standard to be okay with the abject depravity and lack of wholesome messaging about violence in Dragon Ball and other works but then get into a goose fight over some titties and ass.

[Michsi]

Here's one difference between the depiction of violence and sexualization in DB and DB-like media - the fight scenes are so out of this world that it's hard for people to relate and compare it with anything in your average day to day life, and if it does end up influencing it, most of the time it's been people taking up martial arts or working out(we've heard about countless examples like this ), not going around punching people in the face or breaking necks. Sexualization, however, relates to aspects that tie into our daily lives a little more frequently and often times not in the best way.

I'm all for fan-service. It's not really my cup of tea, but I don't mind it if it's done and placed right.

The most this side of early DB has bothered me is actually not even in the original manga and it's an anime only scene as far as I remember - it's during the first tournament arc when Bulms falls on down and as she struggles to get up because Oolong fell on top of her, older, drooling men start gathering around her because they can see her underwear. Too many this may have been a inoffensive, throwaway scene, but that moment has left such a poor taste in my mouth and even now I cringe when I remember it.

I'm not one for grabbing the torches and pitchforks at the slightest aggravation, and as I said, sexy has it's role in media, but I do believe you need to be more thoughtful when it comes these things.

One more thing- I keep hearing people claim that that Roshi's scenes aren't even about sexualization, just humor. I don't know about tha, but I've never found them funny. Same with the character of Mineta - I have yet to find anyone that finds his antics funny.

[sintzu]

Here's one difference between the depiction of violence and sexualization in DB and DB-like media - the fight scenes are so out of this world that it's hard for people to relate and compare it with anything in your average day to day life...

I'm pretty sure if someone as big as Recoom kicked a 5-6 year old in the neck it'd break just like Gohan's. JulieYBM brings up a good point, you can have the worst kind of abuse known to man in shows and movies yet everyone's OK with it but lose their minds at the sight of the slightest sexual scene.

[KBABZ]

JulieYBM brings up a good point, you can have the worst kind of abuse known to man in shows and movies yet everyone's OK with it but lose their minds at the sight of the slightest sexual scene.

The problem there is that, when executed correctly, there's nothing wrong with, say, showing two consenting characters friskly flirting like they're about to go to the bedroom. That is sexual content but it's done respectfully. Bulma lifting her skirt up to persuade Goku gets a bare pass simply because Bulma came up with the idea on her own (and Goku saying "What do I care about your dirty old fanny?" is actually pretty hilarious). Lots of American shows have done that rather successfully, and while it isn't my bag, it's at least acceptable from a social standpoint and often serves characterization and character relationships.

But what Roshi gets up to borders on sexual abuse, and he's supposed to be character we root for (I mean do I really have to remind you that the only other characters to do this, the two Red Ribbon grunts and Oolong in his early days, were villains?). All of Roshi's most famous scenes, be it training Goku and Krillin, talking with Tien after forfeiting, or his last stand against Daimao, have nothing to do with his perverted antics, which goes to show how much of a frivolous character trait it is, and how fanservice adds absolutely nothing to the plot.

[sintzu]

JulieYBM brings up a good point, you can have the worst kind of abuse known to man in shows and movies yet everyone's OK with it but lose their minds at the sight of the slightest sexual scene.

The problem there is that, when executed correctly, there's nothing wrong with, say, showing two consenting characters friskly flirting like they're about to go to the bedroom. That is sexual content but it's done respectfully. Bulma lifting her skirt up to persuade Goku gets a bare pass simply because Bulma came up with the idea on her own (and Goku saying "What do I care about your dirty old fanny?" is actually pretty hilarious). Lots of American shows have done that rather successfully, and while it isn't my bag, it's at least acceptable from a social standpoint and often serves characterization and character relationships.

But what Roshi gets up to borders on sexual abuse, and he's supposed to be character we root for (I mean do I really have to remind you that the only other characters to do this, the two Red Ribbon grunts and Oolong in his early days, were villains?). All of Roshi's most famous scenes, be it training Goku and Krillin, talking with Tien after forfeiting, or his last stand against Daimao, have nothing to do with his perverted antics, which goes to show how much of a frivolous character trait it is, and how fanservice adds absolutely nothing to the plot.

That doesn't answer the point I brought up, why are small sexual jokes wrong while the most out of this world violence is ? Roshi's jokes are nowhere near the mindless violent trash that airs on American TV yet, everyone's OK with it. It's the same thing in terms of sexual content and objectifying women so I don't know why you're bringing that up of all things. American TV is the last thing you should look at for moral standards.

[KBABZ]

That doesn't answer the point I brought up, why are small sexual jokes wrong while the most out of this world violence is ? Roshi's jokes are nowhere near the mindless violent trash that airs on American TV yet, everyone's OK with it. American television is the last thing you should look at for moral standards.

Sexual humor happens all the time on TV, but in my opinion outright sexual harassment has no place on any TV show, let alone one aimed at young boys like Dragon Ball is.

[sintzu]

In my opinion outright sexual harassment has no place on any TV show, let alone one aimed at young boys like Dragon Ball is.

It's nothing worse than the social engineering going on in American children shows.

[Michsi]

Here's one difference between the depiction of violence and sexualization in DB and DB-like media - the fight scenes are so out of this world that it's hard for people to relate and compare it with anything in your average day to day life...

I'm pretty sure if someone as big as Recoom kicked a 5-6 year old in the neck it'd break just like Gohan's. JulieYBM brings up a good point, you can have the worst kind of abuse known to man in shows and movies yet everyone's OK with it but lose their minds at the sight of the slightest sexual scene.

I feel like this is deliberately missing my point, which was violence, specifically the kind that is presented in a cartoonish story like DB, is not something most people relate to. There might have been a school brawl here and there that was instigated by some kid that thought he could unleash his inner super saiyan, but all in all, I think we can all agree that it is not a common occurrence. Old men putting their hands where they don't belong? Now that is a little more common, I'm sad to say.

We all get it - it's best to cultivate common sense that allows us to separate fiction from reality. Just because you like Freeza doesn't mean you're a fan of tyranny; just because you have a crush on Vegeta doesn't you think mass-murderers are hot, etc. - but at some point it's more about tastefulness and consideration than any social responsibility. And either way, the thread title asks if we were bothered by it, which was subjective. Well, many were bothered by it.

[KBABZ]

In my opinion outright sexual harassment has no place on any TV show, let alone one aimed at young boys like Dragon Ball is.

It's nothing worse than the social engineering going on in American children shows.

Social engineering? Explain?

[Doctor.]

I'm not a fan of Toriyama's sexual humor but that's just personally because I don't find it funny, not because it's offensive.

16 is the age of consent in a ton of first world nations.

And it's fiction.

[sintzu]

In my opinion outright sexual harassment has no place on any TV show, let alone one aimed at young boys like Dragon Ball is.

It's nothing worse than the social engineering going on in American children shows.

Social engineering? Explain?

There's no need to get out of the topic's line even more which is what explaining that will do. My point is, American TV is the last thing you should look at for moral standards and what is or isn't right to show to children.

[KBABZ]

It's nothing worse than the social engineering going on in American children shows.

Social engineering? Explain?

There's no need to get out of the topic's line even more which is what explaining that will do. My point is, American TV is the last thing you should look at for moral standards and what is or isn't right to show to children.

I think it is on-topic in a broader discussion of Japanese morals vs American morals, as well as sexualization in Dragon Ball overall.

[sintzu]

I think it is on-topic in a broader discussion of Japanese morals vs American morals, as well as sexualization in Dragon Ball overall.

My views on sexualization in DB is that I wouldn't put it there as I don't think it belongs in a fighting Shonen, however, what little that's there doesn't bother me as it's mostly for jokes.

[Lord Beerus]

Not really. I don't mind sexual humor as long it's well timed and well placed in the story.

[DBZAOTA482]

No, because Bulma mostly brought it upon herself and Japan (Dragon Ball specifically) doesn't care if your fee-fees are hurt.

[WittyUsername]

No, because Bulma mostly brought it upon herself and Japan (Dragon Ball specifically) doesn't care if your fee-fees are hurt.

It’s not really a matter of feelings getting hurt. It’s more a question of what exactly the ethics are in sexualizing a character who happens to be 16 years old, and making her an object of lust for a man who is literally hundreds of years old.

[Doctor.]

No, because Bulma mostly brought it upon herself and Japan (Dragon Ball specifically) doesn't care if your fee-fees are hurt.

It’s not really a matter of feelings getting hurt. It’s more a question of what exactly the ethics are in sexualizing a character who happens to be 16 years old, and making her an object of lust for a man who is literally hundreds of years old.

You'd have to look at Japanese culture and not Toriyama specifically to question the ethics of the situation. Isn't the age of consent in Japan 13 or something low like that?

[Dr. Casey]

No, because Bulma mostly brought it upon herself and Japan (Dragon Ball specifically) doesn't care if your fee-fees are hurt.

It’s not really a matter of feelings getting hurt. It’s more a question of what exactly the ethics are in sexualizing a character who happens to be 16 years old, and making her an object of lust for a man who is literally hundreds of years old.

You'd have to look at Japanese culture and not Toriyama specifically to question the ethics of the situation. Isn't the age of consent in Japan 13 or something low like that?

That's the federal age of consent, but it's effectively a law with no power since the various regions/prefectures have their own age of consent that override the federal guidelines (generally in the range of 16 to 18).

As for the ecchi humor of early Dragon Ball, no, it doesn't bother me. 16 is old enough and close enough to adulthood that the idea of sexualizing a character in small doses in and and of itself doesn't bother me too much (if Bulma was even a year younger I would find it creepy), and Roshi and Bulma have a pretty equal relationship. Roshi acts like a pervert, Bulma punches him, they move on. That bit of context changes things a lot for me - if Bulma was genuinely distraught it wouldn't be funny, but she just finds it annoying before ultimately shrugging it off. Basically, there's an unspoken agreement/understanding between them that this aspect of their dynamic isn't that big a deal to either of them. The only Roshi scene that I legitimately find creepy is the bit in Super where Roshi walks off with some unconscious girl slung over his shoulder. As for the original material from the 80s and 90s, the worst I find them is dumb, annoying, and overly drawn out (the Red Ribbon filler with him shrinking himself easily being the most painful example of such).