Defense: Are they always that tough?

[jcogginsa]

The assumption (At least in the circles I travel) about how Defense works in Dragonball is that defense in Dragonball is always consistent. That there is no variation amidst a fight.

This assumption amplifies the power creep that is already present in the series, because of this chain of logic: If Character A has survived a planet busting attack, and Character A's defenses are consistent, then every attack that hurts him must be a planet busting attack, in order to get by his defenses.

And that assumption in turn creates a second assumption: Because character A can only be hurt by planet busting attacks, then every basic attack character B uses must be strong enough to bust a planet, because Character B wouldn't bother using any attacks that he knows couldn't hurt his opponent.

This means that all the punches the characters use are ascribed the power to bust a planet, and all the ki blasts they use are ascribed the power to bust a planet, even though they don't display such power in combat.

The purpose of this thread is to question those assumptions. To take a closer look at the source material, and see if there is any evidence that contradicts these assumptions.

The kind of evidence we'd be looking for comes in a variety of forms. The most obvious evidence is, of course, exposition on how the powers of the series works. This is, unfortunately, quite rare in Dragonball, so it can't be the only thing we look for.

Another thing we can look at for evidence is the tactics used by the characters. As the above logic chain points out, the characters aren't going to use tactics they know for certain won't be effective. So if there are any cases where a character attempts a sneak attack in order to try and hurt a foe they know that they can't hurt on their own, then that would be evidence that defense is not consistent.

Another place to look is at what worries the characters. There are several post Super Saiyan occasions where characters worry that an attack will destroy the planet. It's worth looking at what specifically worries these characters about those attacks. After all, if every attack is a planet busting attack, then why be worried about one specific attack over another?

Additionally, it's important to consider sources. Obviously, the original manga is the primary source, but I think it's okay to use Super as a secondary source. If it conflicts with the original manga, then it's out, but otherwise it's fine.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Well of course there's the whole thing about being vulnerable when you let your guard down, but in the middle of a fight I would assume it would always be up.

But your durability can also be compromised if you are injured or exhausted, as it's all based on ki. So after a tough and exhausting fight, you would be more vulnerable than you were when you started the fight. For example, Taopaipai was severely injured by a grenade after a tough fight with Goku, but if he had been fresh and rested he probably wouldn't have been hurt by that explosion at all.

[jcogginsa]

Well of course there's the whole thing about being vulnerable when you let your guard down, but in the middle of a fight I would assume it would always be up.

But your durability can also be compromised if you are injured or exhausted, as it's all based on ki. So after a tough and exhausting fight, you would be more vulnerable than you were when you started the fight. For example, Taopaipai was severely injured by a grenade after a tough fight with Goku, but if he had been fresh and rested he probably wouldn't have been hurt by that explosion at all.

The alternate possibility I'm considering is that they only use their maximum level of defense against really strong attacks, in order to conserve ki. I'm wondering if anything precludes that possibility

[Polyphase Avatron]

Well of course there's the whole thing about being vulnerable when you let your guard down, but in the middle of a fight I would assume it would always be up.

But your durability can also be compromised if you are injured or exhausted, as it's all based on ki. So after a tough and exhausting fight, you would be more vulnerable than you were when you started the fight. For example, Taopaipai was severely injured by a grenade after a tough fight with Goku, but if he had been fresh and rested he probably wouldn't have been hurt by that explosion at all.

The alternate possibility I'm considering is that they only use their maximum level of defense against really strong attacks, in order to conserve ki. I'm wondering if anything precludes that possibility

You can't predict every attack so it would be foolish to lower your defense during a fight.

Although, it does bring up an interesting possibility: Maybe the reason that Ultra Instinct seems to give such an offensive power boost is that, since the user can dodge basically any attack, they can redirect their ki from their defense and put it all into offense.

[Anonymous Friend]

In most space scifi, there's usually a scene where the leader order energy diverted from one thing to bolster another. I see ki being used in the same manner. I wold assume that also relies on the user doing adaquate training to do so. The same as speed, attack, and any other RPG-like stats.

And, just because you're in a fight, doesn't mean you're in Fight Mode. Mostly due to underestimating their opponent. Technically any time Bulma decided to deck one of them, that's sort of a fight, she's probably not smacking them softly, and if they raised their defenses, she'd probably break her arm.

[jcogginsa]

In most space scifi, there's usually a scene where the leader order energy diverted from one thing to bolster another. I see ki being used in the same manner. I wold assume that also relies on the user doing adaquate training to do so. The same as speed, attack, and any other RPG-like stats.

And, just because you're in a fight, doesn't mean you're in Fight Mode. Mostly due to underestimating their opponent. Technically any time Bulma decided to deck one of them, that's sort of a fight, she's probably not smacking them softly, and if they raised their defenses, she'd probably break her arm.

I agree with the logic, but is there any evidence in series to support it?