If Gohan entered the ROSAT with Piccolo instead of Goku, how strong would he become?

[nickzambuto]

This might be controversial but there is some evidence indicating that Piccolo might have been able to make Gohan stronger than Goku did.

First of all when we look at Gohan's training scenes with Goku, especially in the anime, Gohan calls his father out on being too soft. He specifically says that Piccolo used to train him much harder, and that if Goku doesn't try to take Gohan's life, Gohan will never be able to transform. Gohan becoming a SSJ1 was dependent on Goku fighting him as hard as Piccolo would.

Also when we look at the future of the franchise after this, Gohan would always go back to Piccolo as his de facto master. Any time Gohan wants to increase his power, he believes that Piccolo is the man to do it. Since Gohan did train with Goku he knows what that is like, and he still believes that Piccolo is the person who can increase his power the most.

For these reasons I am wondering how strong would Gohan have been if he trained with Piccolo in the ROSAT instead of Goku? With Piccolo being hard on Gohan right from the beginning, and possibly even forcing Gohan to take two trips in the chamber. The second trip would only be a moderate increase, but every bit helps.

[Saiga]

Goku was the one who came up with the idea of mastering Super Saiyan. Without that, I wouldn't expect Gohan to get anywhere near as powerful as he did.

The part about Gohan saying that Goku was too soft is anime-only, he doesn't have much trouble reaching Super Saiyan in the manga. And as someone who is already a Super Saiyan, Goku was almost certainly the best person to teach him that, as well.

[Lionel]

Piccolo's insinuation of Goku being softhearted with his son does have a place in the manga as he made that observation back when Gohan proposed being trained by his father after he was resurrected during the Saiyan arc. Circumstances then corroborated what Piccolo was saying. It's a different story come Cell -- Gohan is a full fledged warrior with combat experience, Piccolo has lost a considerable amount of his edge through emotional influence and fusions, and Goku happens to know what was the most practical means of optimising Gohan's innate power via transformations when they were in the ROSAT.

I see Gohan achieving tremendous growth but unless he turns out as Piccolo by enhancing his power without the need to transform or somehow he transforms in the ROSAT then he's going to wind up without an optimal outcome. Piccolo himself had come to the realisation that Gohan doesn't enjoy fighting as his father does. How plausible is it that this will blunt his eagerness to dangle Gohan over the fire and hone his abilities?

[nickzambuto]

Piccolo's insinuation of Goku being softhearted with his son does have a place in the manga as he made that observation back when Gohan proposed being trained by his father after he was resurrected during the Saiyan arc. Circumstances then corroborated what Piccolo was saying. It's a different story come Cell -- Gohan is a full fledged warrior with combat experience, Piccolo has lost a considerable amount of his edge through emotional influence and fusions, and Goku happens to know what was the most practical means of optimising Gohan's innate power via transformations when they were in the ROSAT.

I see Gohan achieving tremendous growth but unless he turns out as Piccolo by enhancing his power without the need to transform or somehow he transforms in the ROSAT then he's going to wind up without an optimal outcome. Piccolo himself had come to the realisation that Gohan doesn't enjoy fighting as his father does. How plausible is it that this will blunt his eagerness to dangle Gohan over the fire and hone his abilities?

I don't think Piccolo gives a rats ass. His motto in the saiyans arc was throw the kid into the deep end, and if he dies, then that just means he wasn't worthy.

[Psajdak]

The thing is, who knows.
Piccolo IS a good teacher, and if he trained Gohan, I believe he would have found some way to make Gohan just as powerful, even if it was different from Gohan going SS2.

[FoolsGil]

Training with Piccolo would be one sole exception to having a weaker master train a stronger student and it working. I could see a situation where not only could Piccolo discern Gohan's SSJ2 power, but because of their closeness, Piccolo can effectively do what Android 16 did at the end; give Gohan the motivation and strive to ascend and fight.

[jjgp1112]

The anime frankly is irrelevant. In fact, doesn't Goku say that he was going to be harsher than Piccolo in the manga?

Not only was Goku the only one of the two able to properly articulate how to become a Super Saiyan, but through understanding the form was able to come up with the approach of mastering it.

[Cursed Lemon]

Not only was Goku the only one of the two able to properly articulate how to become a Super Saiyan, but through understanding the form was able to come up with the approach of mastering it.

Gonna echo this.

Goku has basically been the architect of every new super saiyan form. Goku and Vegeta, being saiyans, knew what the goal was the entire time. I don't think Piccolo would've known how to push Gohan the right way to get what Goku got out of him.

[nickzambuto]

The anime frankly is irrelevant. In fact, doesn't Goku say that he was going to be harsher than Piccolo in the manga?

Not only was Goku the only one of the two able to properly articulate how to become a Super Saiyan, but through understanding the form was able to come up with the approach of mastering it.

I would say that Piccolo understood the fusion technique enough to make Goten and Trunks master it, and that was only after a few hours of training. So after training with Super Saiyan Goku for 3 years, he might understand the form just enough to teach Gohan.

[Psajdak]

Btw, from my point of view, Goku really only helped Gohan master SS1.

As for SS2, it isn't like Gohan got into it willingly, but rather only after witnessing Cell destroying 16, something no one could have predicted.

Wasn't Piccolo aware of Gohan's latent power since almost the beginning of DBZ, anyway?

[Steven Bloodriver]

This might be controversial but there is some evidence indicating that Piccolo might have been able to make Gohan stronger than Goku did.

First of all when we look at Gohan's training scenes with Goku, especially in the anime, Gohan calls his father out on being too soft. He specifically says that Piccolo used to train him much harder, and that if Goku doesn't try to take Gohan's life, Gohan will never be able to transform. Gohan becoming a SSJ1 was dependent on Goku fighting him as hard as Piccolo would.

Also when we look at the future of the franchise after this, Gohan would always go back to Piccolo as his de facto master. Any time Gohan wants to increase his power, he believes that Piccolo is the man to do it. Since Gohan did train with Goku he knows what that is like, and he still believes that Piccolo is the person who can increase his power the most.

For these reasons I am wondering how strong would Gohan have been if he trained with Piccolo in the ROSAT instead of Goku? With Piccolo being hard on Gohan right from the beginning, and possibly even forcing Gohan to take two trips in the chamber. The second trip would only be a moderate increase, but every bit helps.

Considering the fact that Son Goku was able to help Son Gohan achieve Super Saiyan, Full Power Super Saiyan, and Super Saiyan 2 in less than a year in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, I think that if Piccolo would have spent a year in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber with Son Gohan, then Son Gohan would have achieved Super Saiyan and maybe go through the rest of the Grades of Super Saiyan before stopping at Super Saiyan 2.

Especially since Piccolo would have been a much stronger training partner for Son Gohan than Son Goku was, as Piccolo became slightly stronger than Android 17 upon assimilating Kami. While it would have taken absolutely everything Son Goku had while transformed as a Super Saiyan to have fought Android 17 in the very first place. But if Son Goku would have decided to have Piccolo go in with Son Gohan into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber to have trained for a year before Son Goku would have went in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber himself with Son Gohan for almost a year, then Son Goku, Piccolo, and Son Gohan would have surpassed Full Power Super Saiyan Son Gohan and Perfect Cell from canon from all three Z-Fighters receiving far better training than they had gotten in the canon Timeline.

With me honestly believing that Son Goku would have been able to achieve Super Saiyan 2 from Son Goku training with Son Gohan who would have had Super Saiyan 2 to begin with, Piccolo would have been stronger than Perfect Cell with his Weighted Clothing on him and Piccolo without his Weighted Clothing on him would have been stronger than Super Perfect Cell, and Son Gohan would have been able to achieve Super Saiyan 3 and maybe as many as two even higher forms of Super Saiyan from training with Son Goku for around 11 months in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber.

[TobyS]

So normally I think Piccolo I a a better teacher before and since but here he was specifically trying to master his super Saiyan powers and so Goku was undoubtedly the man for the job.

[Anonymous Friend]

Btw, from my point of view, Goku really only helped Gohan master SS1.

As for SS2, it isn't like Gohan got into it willingly, but rather only after witnessing Cell destroying 16, something no one could have predicted.

Wasn't Piccolo aware of Gohan's latent power since almost the beginning of DBZ, anyway?

Piccolo may have been able to sense that there was more in Gohan, but Goku was better prepared to get Gohan to that point. Look at then main way Piccolo gains his own higher power outside of obsorbing other namekians. He mostly meditates and does his own solo stuff in the middle of no where. That's wasn't going to get Gohan where he needed to be. Atleast not with how much time they had. Heck, if Vegeta wasn't Vegeta in that time period, even he would have gotten better results from Gohan than Piccolo.

[Peach]

Gohan would have been weaker.

Gohan needed a Super Saiyan to not only teach him Super Saiyan, but also get him to master it. Goku also understood that constantly beating up your body for the full year would have done more harm than good and that rest is important - in real life you also need to rest to see gains. Piccolo would have kept Gohan in the full year, which would have effected his mental health and physical strength. And his Super Saiyan wouldn't be mastered.