Are you team Zamasu or team Black?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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ZombieVito
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Re: Are you team Zamasu or team Black?

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:11 am

Aim wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 3:19 am
ZombieVito wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:37 am
Aim wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:22 pm

I mean, we did see that though, not to that extreme, but Black’s personality definitely change in the anime at least somewhat. He completely rejected becoming immortal choosing instead to fight as much as possible to be become stronger and stronger, heck he even loved pain.
Kinda pointless to become immortal if your end goal is fusing with one.
That was a last ditch effort, not the end goal.

They would have had an easier time if they were both immortal.
It's implied that was the end goal.

They even say that play time was over before fusing.

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Re: Are you team Zamasu or team Black?

Post by Aim » Sat Feb 05, 2022 8:13 pm

ZombieVito wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:11 am
Aim wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 3:19 am
ZombieVito wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:37 am
Kinda pointless to become immortal if your end goal is fusing with one.
That was a last ditch effort, not the end goal.

They would have had an easier time if they were both immortal.
It's implied that was the end goal.

They even say that play time was over before fusing.
Head canon moment

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Re: Are you team Zamasu or team Black?

Post by PurestEvil » Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:22 am

Didn't Zamasu's spirit engulf the entire universe after Raged Trunks halved him his spirit sword? Pretty sure he was always immortal regardless of the body...
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Re: Are you team Zamasu or team Black?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:45 am


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ZombieVito
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Re: Are you team Zamasu or team Black?

Post by ZombieVito » Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:21 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:22 am Didn't Zamasu's spirit engulf the entire universe after Raged Trunks halved him his spirit sword? Pretty sure he was always immortal regardless of the body...
Yes, his spirit was fully immortal.

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Goku9001
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Re: Are you team Zamasu or team Black?

Post by Goku9001 » Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:30 am

The end goal was to power up Goku Black even further and carry on the Zero Mortal plan. Zamasu makes that abundantly clear when they were sipping tea at their headquarters. They fused because they were backed into a corner.

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Re: Are you team Zamasu or team Black?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:26 am

Goku9001 wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:30 am The end goal was to power up Goku Black even further and carry on the Zero Mortal plan. Zamasu makes that abundantly clear when they were sipping tea at their headquarters. They fused because they were backed into a corner.
To be fair, Black pretty much won by the time the Future Trunks arc starts. He states that, without Trunks, there was no one left in the world to oppose him, and Trunks only narrowly avoided death. Black couldn't have predicted that Bulma made the time machine fuel though. So there really was no reason to power up Black further because all opposition was dead. In episode 65, Fused Zamasu states that the Project Zero Mortals was going to culminate (= end) at Planet Earth, which means that apparently every other mortal in the Cosmos was slain. There really wasn't much reason left for Black to increase his strength, at least until Goku and Vegeta entered the picture out of nowhere. They were so strong that they presented Black with an opportunity to increase his strength. But if they never joined the fray, then there wouldn't have been any other way for Black to grow stronger, aside from individual training. Because everyone else was dead and Trunks was too weak...

It is intuitive that Black and Zamasu were always going to fuse, regardless of any obstacle they met, for two reasons:

- Black and Zamasu are two sides of the same coin, the "sword" and "shield", they are both Zamases who specialize in two different areas, but individually they are incomplete. So it makes sense that they would fuse to become One God with both their attributes, including ultimate Saiyan strength and Immortality. At one point, they said that the Cosmos only needed one God (speaking in unison), which to me implies that they always wanted to merge and create One Supreme God to rule over all. Them remaining separated doesn't really make much sense symbolically, since they divided they are incomplete.

A comparison could be made with Cell, he could choose to avoid absorbing the Androids and try to become stronger on his own, but it would be pointless. He is designed to absorb the Androids. In the same way, Black could try to become stronger on his own, but why do that when he could merge with the other Zamasu instead, thus becoming a God far greater than they could ever be individually?

- Black had a mortal body and thus was destined to die eventually, like the mortals he hates. I can't really imagine him being fine with sharing the same fate of mortals, so he was going to fuse himself with Zamasu and become Immortal, so that he could last forever as the Fused Zamasu.

This is a very interesting topic, because Black was so almighty that he didn't really need to fuse. Indeed, many people were quick to point out that Black fusing with Zamasu might have been an overreaction on his part, since he was doing so well on his own. But I think that Black merging with Zamasu was just a natural outcome, they were two halves of One Supreme God, there really was no other path for them :think:

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Re: Are you team Zamasu or team Black?

Post by capsulecorp » Mon Feb 07, 2022 12:36 pm

maybe its inevitable that they merge simply because zamasu is so full of self love that he's just drawn to himself? zamasu is meant to be a foil to goku, he embodies all the positive qualities of goku but inverted (he ignores his teacher while goku respects his, he steals his power instead of earning it, etc), so engaging in "self fusion" due to arrogance and isolation (he has no friends!) instead of fusing with friends like goku (who has even fused with a mortal enemy like vegeta) actually makes a sick kind of sense thematically.

i'll write more about this in the future but even though i think the execution of his character and story is extremely tedious, from this perspective zamasu is sort of interesting.

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