Freeza to dethrone Zeno in the end? Final big bad?

[peterx]

Do you think with the recent Black Freeza revelation he is really on to dethrone Zeno as he stated at the ToP?

Silently working in the background, he does not even care about the Saiyans anymore just playing with them for fun, as he has much bigger goals before him, maybe first creating a multiverse Empire? Or subjugate the Demon realm in each Universe for a stronger army? And training, training and training to become the final big bad that will wreak havoc in the entire multiverse in the end? A bit similar to Zamasu's goals but in much more clever and cunning way.

As much as Toriyama/Toyo can't let this character go to rest, there is no more "perfect" final villain for Dragon Ball.. literally everything started with Freeza and likely it will end with him?

[SupremeKai25]

He can try, but he'll still fail. Zeno can erase all of existence in an instant, no one can dethrone him.

I am also willing to bet that Frieza won't be nearly as successful as Zamasu. So, he won't get rid of all the other Gods, nor will he take over the entire Multiverse.

If anything, Frieza would be an idiot to seriously consider the idea that he could dethrone Zeno. It's impossible, no one can do it. Even Zamasu knew this, and planned to escape and hide somewhere if Zeno somehow got involved. And Zamasu was immortal, mind you, yet even he was terrified of Zeno.

By the way, in the ToP, Frieza's plan was to get the Super DBs and use them to wish to dethrone Zeno. But his plan was always going to fail, because the Grand Priest was the one who was going to make the wish, since it needs to be made in the language of the Gods. So Frieza is never going to complete his ambition, no matter how many forms he can pull out of nowhere.

[peterx]

There is always a possibility that Freeza could turn the Gods against each other just look at how easy it was for him to manipulate Sidra/Quitela.. why wouldn't he would be able to do the same with the Angels in some way.. maybe starting with the one who laughed at his own U9's destruction at the ToP.

Freeza is excellent at manipulation and "talk no jutsu" while he could be the one laughing at the end. Doing the same, with lies creating a coalition amongst some Angels to bring down Zeno. Zeno does not fight, he has a childlike personality, maybe there is a way to lock him down without the need to destroy him.

(Btw. killing the Gods are "easy".. just kill the much weaker Kaioshins with extreme fast work in each Universe so Gods don't have a chance to react.)

Also, Zeno did not do anything to Zamasu until Goku literally summoned him. He didn't even knew in that future world that all of his Gods are already dead..

[theherodjl]

The only thing that could dethrone Zeno, let alone two of him, would be the Super DBs. Even if Freeza gathered an army comprising of the strongest warriors across the multiverse and commanded everyone to launch a simultaneous wave of Ki blasts at Zeno's Palace, either Zeno is still firmly above their combined might since they can erase entire universes and even a timeline from existence; it would be a pointless and suicidal effort. Freeza would have to go for an all-or-nothing plan at gathering the Super DBs and making a wish before Zeno 1 or Zeno 2 decides to do something about it: something that could only happen if Daishinkan and his Angel brethren conspire to hide the fact from that Freeza is making a wish. In order for that to happen though, Freeza would have to give the Angels something really good in return for them standing aside, something that is extremely unlikely.

[Xeogran]

It's worth noting that in Neko Majin Z, Vegeta is back to serving under Frieza. Him being alive is now finally explained, but not the latter part. What if Vegeta has no choice but to obey someone who became ruler of the multiverse? Could this one short gag manga have spoiled Super's biggest twist that's yet-to-come?

[nineko]

Also, Zeno did not do anything to Zamasu until Goku literally summoned him. He didn't even knew in that future world that all of his Gods are already dead..

Yeah, that always seemed odd to me, how could he not notice something of such a wide scale? I mean, he noticed the tournament between Universe 6 and Universe 7, which involved far less parties and didn't last for that long. Zamasu could waltz between the universes for literal months, you'd think that Zeno (or at least the Great Priest) would notice multiple mass genocides and multiple usages of the super dragon balls.

It's never made clear how gods notice things, Beerus himself was worried that his colleagues would notice if he helped fight Moro, though it's not explained further.

[Lord Beerus]

I'd rather Freeza get killed off before he gets anywhere near Zeno. Freeza has already been the endgame for a good section of Dragon Balls' original story, why not let another antagonist have that role?

[peterx]

I'd rather Freeza get killed off before he gets anywhere near Zeno. Freeza has already been the endgame for a good section of Dragon Balls' original story, why not let another antagonist have that role?

No new enemy can "win" against an archenemy that's been around for 30-40 years already and nobody could have as meaningful relation to the main protagoniost (Goku) as a him. Also Freeza changed since then, I think he is somewhat more dangerous than before because he thinks in advance, much smarter, and just as evil as before. Dangerous combination.

[SupremeKai25]

There is always a possibility that Freeza could turn the Gods against each other just look at how easy it was for him to manipulate Sidra/Quitela

I don't remember him manipulating Quitela, also his plot with Sidra was thwarted like 10 seconds later when Beerus and Whis caught him in the act and destroyed the device he was using to talk to Sidra. So, not exactly a good example of his manipulation skills.

Freeza is excellent at manipulation and "talk no jutsu" while he could be the one laughing at the end.

This is what confuses me, when did he manipulate anyone? Frieza is a brute who resorts to violence, not manipulation. He didn't try to manipulate the Saiyans into submission, he blew them up. He didn't try to manipulate the Namekians into giving him the Dragon Balls, he slaughtered them, and so on.

Meanwhile, Zamasu manipulated Goku and Gowasu into trusting him, which allowed him to put his plan in motion without drawing suspicions.

People here are talking about Frieza as if he was some genius schemer, but I don't recall him ever making complex plans or manipulations. We can assume that he has some intelligence, since he was running an universal-spanning empire (which he inherited from his dad btw, he didn't build it himself), but manipulations and schemes are not his forte. He ruled only through fear.

(Btw. killing the Gods are "easy".. just kill the much weaker Kaioshins with extreme fast work in each Universe so Gods don't have a chance to react.)

It's not that easy, Frieza can never succeed because Beerus and Whis are still alive. If he ever tries to pull anything against the Gods, Beerus and Whis will catch him and kill him. They already thwarted his failed plot with SIdra.

That's why Zamasu specifically chose a timeline where Beerus and Whis were already dead. So, Frieza can never succeed like Zamasu. Any plot to kill the Gods will be discovered immediately by Beerus and Whis. If Frieza wants to get rid of all the Kais in all the universes, he first needs to get rid of Beerus and Whis. But, of course, that's easier said than done.

Also, Zeno did not do anything to Zamasu until Goku literally summoned him. He didn't even knew in that future world that all of his Gods are already dead..

Yeah, that always seemed odd to me, how could he not notice something of such a wide scale? I mean, he noticed the tournament between Universe 6 and Universe 7, which involved far less parties and didn't last for that long. Zamasu could waltz between the universes for literal months, you'd think that Zeno (or at least the Great Priest) would notice multiple mass genocides and multiple usages of the super dragon balls.

It's never made clear how gods notice things, Beerus himself was worried that his colleagues would notice if he helped fight Moro, though it's not explained further.

I guess Zamasu was just that good at hiding his work from the authorities.

After all, unlike Frieza, Zamasu was very good at hiding his true nature. With Frieza, everyone knew he was a genocidal evil maniac. It's just that no one could do anything about it, since he was so strong. But with Zamasu, those around him (Gowasu and Goku) were convinced that he was an innocent good guy, they literally had no clue about his true intentions. This is proven in the original time Goku Black comes from, where he (Zamasu) executed his plan perfectly without anyone having a clue.

If Frieza wants to rule the Multiverse, he should just go to another timeline lol. There are too many people in the Main timeline who could oppose him (Beerus and Whis are still alive, Ultra Instinct Goku, Ultra Ego Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo, etc.). He should just target a weaker timeline, like Zamasu did.

[TobyS]

It's worth noting that in Neko Majin Z, Vegeta is back to serving under Frieza. Him being alive is now finally explained, but not the latter part. What if Vegeta has no choice but to obey someone who became ruler of the multiverse? Could this one short gag manga have spoiled Super's biggest twist that's yet-to-come?

This would be incredible lol.