What do you think is the multiplier for Orange Piccolo

[Seekeroftruth]

Gamma 1 and 2 were said to rival Goku and vegeta powers. Gamma 2 had an advantage to Piccolo but was soon overpowered when he turned into his orange form. Against cell max, piccolo had power to put up a decent fight against him and even restrain him for a time.

Where would you place Orange Piccolo multiplier?

[Civic]

Toriyama said Orange Piccolo is on par with Goku and co battle power wise, so we know it's up there. He struggled against Cell Max but he was also worn down from his battle with Gamma 2 and didn't get a chance to eat a senzu bean, whereas Gohan did. I think if he had a chance to rejuvenate, he could have defeated Cell Max, though not as effortlessly as Gohan Beast.

[Kaboom]

It's exactly "Beerus x 0.01," like any given transformation that mortals gain in Super.

[Yuji]

Piccolo seems relative to SS Gohan, and ultimate Piccolo seems relative to ultimate Gohan, so it should be slightly less of whatever the difference you believe there is between SS Gohan and Beast Gohan.

Personally I have God at 10x SS3, perfected Blue at 5x God, and perfected UI at 10x Blue. I don't think Beast would be much different from the UI multiplier. So that would be about a 4,000x difference from UI/Beast to SS.

[TobyS]

Piccolo seems relative to SS Gohan, and ultimate Piccolo seems relative to ultimate Gohan, so it should be slightly less of whatever the difference you believe there is between SS Gohan and Beast Gohan.

Personally I have God at 10x SS3, perfected Blue at 5x God, and perfected UI at 10x Blue. I don't think Beast would be much different from the UI multiplier. So that would be about a 4,000x difference from UI/Beast to SS.

God has to be way more than 3, otherwise fusion would have been useful in BOG.
Non perfected blue has to be about 10 times at least as Vegetas 10% of power blue was weaker than Gokus SS God. Perfecteds a lot higher, able to tussle with a merged Zamasu that needed fusion before.

No idea on UI but it's massive. No idea on Beast really either.... Just that it's stronger than UI and Ego as Piccolo is about equal to them and he's weaker than Gohan so...

[Yuji]

Piccolo seems relative to SS Gohan, and ultimate Piccolo seems relative to ultimate Gohan, so it should be slightly less of whatever the difference you believe there is between SS Gohan and Beast Gohan.

Personally I have God at 10x SS3, perfected Blue at 5x God, and perfected UI at 10x Blue. I don't think Beast would be much different from the UI multiplier. So that would be about a 4,000x difference from UI/Beast to SS.

God has to be way more than 3, otherwise fusion would have been useful in BOG.
Non perfected blue has to be about 10 times at least as Vegetas 10% of power blue was weaker than Gokus SS God. Perfecteds a lot higher, able to tussle with a merged Zamasu that needed fusion before.

No idea on UI but it's massive. No idea on Beast really either.... Just that it's stronger than UI and Ego as Piccolo is about equal to them and he's weaker than Gohan so...

I don't think that's as clear cut anymore considering both the hypothetical SS3 Vegetto and SSG Goku were just a tiny fraction of Beerus' power. At this point in the series the strength-based themes of Battle of Gods are no longer coherent. We see in Broly that SS Gogeta is stronger than Blue Goku, so it's not unthinkable at this point to have a SS fusion relative to the God forms. The anime also shows base Kefla relative to SSG Goku and Heroes puts SS4 and Blue at similar tiers of strength, and SS4 has usually been seen by the fandom as a 5000x multiplier. There are more things pointing toward God being only a very significant but not ridiculous increase from 3 at this point and I don't think it's worth sticking to the BoG-exclusive idea that God is an entire realm thousands of times stronger than 3.

I have incomplete Blue at 2x God to fit in with the manga's version of the U6 arc, with then completed Blue being 5x God. Honestly it can range anywhere from 5 to 50x as we just know CSSB is a noticeable improvement from the imperfect version, but I'm a minimalist so 5x is good enough for me.

[nickzambuto]

The Orange multiplier might be bigger than the Ultra Instinct multiplier if it allowed Piccolo to catch up.

I say this because Piccolo wasn't even really Blue level. He was weaker than the Gammas.

So he had to close the gap between himself and Blue, and then close the gap between Blue and Ultra Instinct. All with just Orange.

[The Monkey King]

It's exactly "Beerus x 0.01," like any given transformation that mortals gain in Super.

It's funny because I think Toriyama holds the least reverence for Beerus' power level

He had Goku say Broly is probably stronger than Beerus

In his original drafts for story arcs there are no powered up versions of Blue (thus no kaio-ken, perfect or evolved in DBS Broly) and therefore no power bloat for Beerus

In RoF it's stated that Goku and Vegeta working together could stalemate Beerus.

When it comes to Toriyama's statements about the power scale in Super Hero he uses Broly as a measuring stick for a super strong fighter and not Beerus.

I'm currently working on a strict "Toriyama Power Scale" and I have Piccolo at low S rank while Beerus is high A rank

[Yuji]

It's exactly "Beerus x 0.01," like any given transformation that mortals gain in Super.

It's funny because I think Toriyama holds the least reverence for Beerus' power level

He had Goku say Broly is probably stronger than Beerus

In his original drafts for story arcs there are no powered up versions of Blue (thus no kaio-ken, perfect or evolved in DBS Broly) and therefore no power bloat for Beerus

In RoF it's stated that Goku and Vegeta working together could stalemate Beerus.

When it comes to Toriyama's statements about the power scale in Super Hero he uses Broly as a measuring stick for a super strong fighter and not Beerus.

I'm currently working on a strict "Toriyama Power Scale" and I have Piccolo at low S rank while Beerus is high A rank

Toriyama is the singular entity keeping Beerus ahead as the moving goalpost. It's clear he has some sort of plan for Beerus and can't have Goku and Vegeta surpass him yet despite implying they're close numerous times - yet after so many powerups it seems they're still where they're started.

Toei are the ones trying to have Beerus surpassed at every turn - Beerus sweats at Kaioken Blue, the numerous jabs at Beerus being surpassed by Jiren and other GoDs during the ToP - but keep having to backtrack due to Toriyama's intention.

[theherodjl]

I can't really think of a proper multiplier for Orange Piccolo as the only challenge he has faced thus far is Cell Max, and that thing's power fluctuated way too much: between being low enough to be damaged by the fat Base Gotenks, to being somewhere above Orange Piccolo. Any sort of seemingly-even fight that Piccolo was giving Cell Max may have been an inaccurate depiction as to how powerful it actually was, with Gohan Beast as the stronger fighter being the only constant against Cell Max's true power. Orange Piccolo is at least a lot stronger than the Gamma Twins, which could be a few times stronger or tens of times stronger by DB standards. It's hard to tell though.

[Hugo Boss]

Based on their second match, Piccolo probably doesn’t need more than twice his unleashed power to surpass Gamma #2. So maybe 2-fold?

[FPSSJ4_Goku]

Not sure if this is at all, relevant, but in my Discord server, I had Power Unleashed as a 400x multiplier from his base (which I assume got boosted greatly by his wish), and had Orange Piccolo as a 40,000x multiplier from his base. Both of these were available to Namekians.

[ZombieVito]

Considering Orange Piccolo rivals UI Goku then it must be around 100 times his Ultimate form since I have UI around that strong compared to SSB.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

Considering Orange Piccolo rivals UI Goku then it must be around 100 times his Ultimate form since I have UI around that strong compared to SSB.

Toriyama stated that Orange Piccolo is on par with Goku and Vegeta. He said this in regards to the movie.

What does on par mean here? Well Orange Piccolo can’t be on par with UI Goku because the manga just showed that’s where Gohan Beast is.

Anime logic well Goku doesn’t have complete access to UI yet so it would just mean ssb. Orange Piccolo >= SSJB

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Toriyama stated that Orange Piccolo is on par with Goku and Vegeta. He said this in regards to the movie.

What does on par mean here? Well Orange Piccolo can’t be on par with UI Goku because the manga just showed that’s where Gohan Beast is.

Anime logic well Goku doesn’t have complete access to UI yet so it would just mean ssb. Orange Piccolo >= SSJB

Toriyama also wrote the plot for the post-movie chapters, so he's definitely on board with Goku = Gohan > Cell > Piccolo.

Still, I'd say Piccolo is closer to Silver UI than to UI Sign, that's fitting for how DBS treats "on par". Not sure about the multiplier though since I don't know how strong "Base" Piccolo is.

[Koitsukai]

Toriyama stated that Orange Piccolo is on par with Goku and Vegeta. He said this in regards to the movie.

What does on par mean here? Well Orange Piccolo can’t be on par with UI Goku because the manga just showed that’s where Gohan Beast is.

Anime logic well Goku doesn’t have complete access to UI yet so it would just mean ssb. Orange Piccolo >= SSJB

Toriyama also wrote the plot for the post-movie chapters, so he's definitely on board with Goku = Gohan > Cell > Piccolo.

Still, I'd say Piccolo is closer to Silver UI than to UI Sign, that's fitting for how DBS treats "on par". Not sure about the multiplier though since I don't know how strong "Base" Piccolo is.

Sounds about right. Whatever Tori said 2 years ago is superseded by what he wrote 2 months ago. I know people want to believe Gohan had enough power left to beat Goku but that's just... unconfirmed? it was purposely and explicitly left unclear who'd come out on top.

In any case, Orange should still be a decent contender, I'd say he is as strong as the initial Beast.
It's possible he is the weakest of them all in base (I mean, the saiyans' base level is unclear, but I don't think he is SS level anymore, EoZ is around the corner and Goku will fight Uub), so Orange would be the form with the greatest multiplier... or the 2nd greatest after Beast because Gohan's base might be less remarkable than Piccolo's.

[Hugo Boss]

Based on their second match, Piccolo probably doesn’t need more than twice his unleashed power to surpass Gamma #2. So maybe 2-fold?

I’ve been thinking perhaps this estimate was too low, considering Orange Piccolo might be stronger than Gas, but hundreds still seems too much for me, if it’s coming from his ultimate form. My current guess would be about 50-fold, since it looks like a Super Saiyan-esque transformation for Piccolo.

[ZombieVito]

Considering Orange Piccolo rivals UI Goku then it must be around 100 times his Ultimate form since I have UI around that strong compared to SSB.

Toriyama stated that Orange Piccolo is on par with Goku and Vegeta. He said this in regards to the movie.

What does on par mean here? Well Orange Piccolo can’t be on par with UI Goku because the manga just showed that’s where Gohan Beast is.

Anime logic well Goku doesn’t have complete access to UI yet so it would just mean ssb. Orange Piccolo >= SSJB

Beast Gohan is stronger than UI Goku.

Orange Piccolo can't be SSB tier since he one shots a fighter that's right at that level. Like, come on now.

[Hugo Boss]

Beast Gohan is stronger than UI Goku.

Gohan needs to get serious to bypass Goku’s ultra instinct speed. He wouldn’t need to go that far against Piccolo, given the large gap between them. If Piccolo somehow rivals Goku, one would assume it would be a level below what Goku showed against Gohan.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I think it all becomes easier if we pretend Gohan no-selling a punch from Cell Max didn't happen (Which is probably what T&T did since Gohan almost loses in a beam struggle the next chapter). That way everyone is on the same tier, and while Piccolo is at the bottom it's not by a stomping range.

Gohan (Angry): 110
Goku/Gohan: 100
Broly: 90-100
Cell Max: 90
Piccolo: 80