Was Dragon Ball GT intended to be longer (or shorter) than it actually was?

[taikufuru]

Last month, I decided to revisit Dragon Ball GT. After all these years, I still don't feel completely enveloped by her. There are many things I like, but I feel the absence of Toriyama's soul. Anyway...

Do you agree with me that the initial 40 episodes work organically as a single story arc? Everything the series presents and develops ends in episode 40. There are no loose ends. And if it ended up there, it would do justice to the "GT", wouldn't it?

I feel like the next arc feels (a little?) redundant when I realize that the initial premise is to search for the Dragon Balls once again... only on Earth.

With the end of the Baby arc, a TV special that takes place 100 years after the events of the series is shown. I can imagine how confusing and abrupt that was at the time...

Did they intend to end the series with the 40th episode, followed by the TV special as an epilogue? Perhaps they changed their minds during the Baby arc and intended to move forward with the series, seeking to make it more popular than it was?

Is there any indication that they wouldn't go further than they did, or that they would go even further?

Why are they "hiding" this TV special, releasing it with poor image quality compared to the Dragon Boxes, as well as there are no dubbings performed in most of the countries where the series was a success?

[90sDBZ]

I can see what you mean about the Baby saga wrapping up the events that began with Goku being turned small again. It ends with him making the choice to stay that way, although he can still technically reverse it by going SS4.

But it did at least slightly foreshadow the Shadow Dragons. It ends with a closeup of one of earth's dragonballs, which we see again in the next arc except it's cracked this time. It also had Piccolo dying which ended up being crucial in the next arc as he gets Goku out of Hell.

Also the Shadow Dragon saga has Goku gather energy from across the entire universe for the Spirit Bomb, which ties back to the "Grand Tour" idea nicely.

So while I can see your point, I'm still glad GT went on for longer, and it did an okayish job of tying everything together. And that last arc is a solid conclusion for the larger series as a whole, bringing the focus back to the dragonballs.

[MasenkoHA]

I don't think its any different than how the end of the Freeza arc more or less wraps up everything up from Z up to that point.

I'd imagine they always planned on GT running for at least a year. We know they changed course from GT being the first arc of Dragon Ball innnnn spaaaace when it wasn't performing well and that's how we got Baby. I don't think they thought too far ahead and that's why Baby kind of sort of works as an endgame just like the 23rd Budokai, Freeza, and Cell arcs

[novashibe]

I'd be curious as to how the show would have gone had the staff kept up the OG-like 'adventure for the Dragon Balls' stuff for longer and took their time hinting at and leading into the Baby arc, then having that as the final arc. It could have been interesting and a different set up for Dragon Ball to tackle and go out on.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

There have been unconfirmed rumours GT was ordered for 40 episodes, but it was pretty much a given that would be extended, and when the second order came around it was only for 64 episodes.

I'm conflicted because on one hand I think GT could work as a short series as the Baby arc is like the second part of the search for the black star Dragon Balls, on the other hand the concept of the Evil Dragons is perfect for a conclusion of the series as a whole. Also, while the last two arcs aren't consistent with the theme of "Grand Touring" other than the inhabitants of the universe giving their energy to Goku for the Spirit Bomb, as 90sDBZ explained they do a good job of tying up some loose ends, particularly Piccolo's demise, which was one of the most meaningful deaths in the series.

Ideally GT probably would have been 80 episodes to give the Super 17 and Evil Dragons arcs more time to breath as both felt rushed, especially the former.

[WittyUsername]

A common talking point that’s gone around for the longest time is that GT was intended to end after episode 40, but that Toei extended the series for another 24 episodes to coincide with the release of Final Bout. I have no clue if that’s accurate, but episode 40 certainly does neatly wrap up the initial “Grand Touring” premise of the show.

[MasenkoHA]

A common talking point that’s gone around for the longest time is that GT was intended to end after episode 40, but that Toei extended the series for another 24 episodes to coincide with the release of Final Bout. I have no clue if that’s accurate, but episode 40 certainly does neatly wrap up the initial “Grand Touring” premise of the show.

I remember hearing that one as well. It does at least make sense, had GT ended at the Baby arc the series would have been over a good 5 months before the game's release in Japan. Extending the series to last for a few months after the game's release would have kept the brand relevant.

If there's any truth to "GT was only gonna last 40 episodes," that seems like it would be the reason why it went past that.

[taikufuru]

But it did at least slightly foreshadow the Shadow Dragons. It ends with a closeup of one of earth's dragonballs, which we see again in the next arc except it's cracked this time. It also had Piccolo dying which ended up being crucial in the next arc as he gets Goku out of Hell.

In a scenario that they planned to end in episode 40 and had to change plans, it wouldn't be surprising for them to change the scripts it in advance, adding this hint that things would continue.

What I find most strange is the decision to air the TV Special after the Baby events, before the Evil Dragons arc (and Epilogue) even begins.

I personally think it's a shame they didn't end it there. It would be a single organic story arc that would live up to its title, and would consolidate itself as a "small" post-Dragon Ball Z parallel adventure.

And also because I think what comes after episode 40 lacks fun and creativity. It's just boring and soulless.

[Hellspawn28]

I would imagine Toei wanted GT to be as long as DBZ was. Toei is known to milk something to death until it stop selling. They probably wanted GT to go on for a long time or had another DB series plan to air right afterwards.

[WittyUsername]

But it did at least slightly foreshadow the Shadow Dragons. It ends with a closeup of one of earth's dragonballs, which we see again in the next arc except it's cracked this time. It also had Piccolo dying which ended up being crucial in the next arc as he gets Goku out of Hell.

In a scenario that they planned to end in episode 40 and had to change plans, it wouldn't be surprising for them to change the scripts it in advance, adding this hint that things would continue.

What I find most strange is the decision to air the TV Special after the Baby events, before the Evil Dragons arc (and Epilogue) even begins.

I personally think it's a shame they didn't end it there. It would be a single organic story arc that would live up to its title, and would consolidate itself as a "small" post-Dragon Ball Z parallel adventure.

And also because I think what comes after episode 40 lacks fun and creativity. It's just boring and soulless.

Assuming it’s true that GT was initially going to end with episode 40, I imagine the TV special was already in production by that point, and would’ve come out regardless. It doesn’t entirely seem to mesh well with episode 64, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it was written before they came up with the ending.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I always found it confusing that A Heroes Legacy opens with a recap of the conclusion of the Baby arc rather than the Evil Dragons. Toonami UK aired the special 2 years after GT ended, so I was conditioned to see it as the epilogue or follow-up to episode 64.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who had that experience first time watching the special.

[ABED]

But it did at least slightly foreshadow the Shadow Dragons. It ends with a closeup of one of earth's dragonballs, which we see again in the next arc except it's cracked this time. It also had Piccolo dying which ended up being crucial in the next arc as he gets Goku out of Hell.

In a scenario that they planned to end in episode 40 and had to change plans, it wouldn't be surprising for them to change the scripts it in advance, adding this hint that things would continue.

What I find most strange is the decision to air the TV Special after the Baby events, before the Evil Dragons arc (and Epilogue) even begins.

I personally think it's a shame they didn't end it there. It would be a single organic story arc that would live up to its title, and would consolidate itself as a "small" post-Dragon Ball Z parallel adventure.

And also because I think what comes after episode 40 lacks fun and creativity. It's just boring and soulless.

Interesting because I think that final arc is one of the best of the entire series. It's original and the ending especially is heartfelt.

[WittyUsername]

But it did at least slightly foreshadow the Shadow Dragons. It ends with a closeup of one of earth's dragonballs, which we see again in the next arc except it's cracked this time. It also had Piccolo dying which ended up being crucial in the next arc as he gets Goku out of Hell.

In a scenario that they planned to end in episode 40 and had to change plans, it wouldn't be surprising for them to change the scripts it in advance, adding this hint that things would continue.

What I find most strange is the decision to air the TV Special after the Baby events, before the Evil Dragons arc (and Epilogue) even begins.

I personally think it's a shame they didn't end it there. It would be a single organic story arc that would live up to its title, and would consolidate itself as a "small" post-Dragon Ball Z parallel adventure.

And also because I think what comes after episode 40 lacks fun and creativity. It's just boring and soulless.

Interesting because I think that final arc is one of the best of the entire series. It's original and the ending especially is heartfelt.

Whenever people talk about GT having “good ideas, bad execution” I think they’re primarily referring to the Evil Dragons arc. On paper, it’s a great and original idea that serves as a very fitting end to Goku’s adventures, but the way it plays out is kind of underwhelming. Much of the arc plays like an episodic monster of the week situation where Goku, Pan and Giru are the only characters involved, and even once the other characters eventually show up, they’re little more than fodder.

It doesn’t help that despite the allegedly high stakes of the arc, you don’t get the feeling that the gravity of the situation is really weighing on any of the characters until episode 63, which is when the conflict comes to an end.

[Hellspawn28]

It doesn't feel right for Toei to end of their biggest franchises and call it wraps at 65 something episodes. If GT had the same episode count that DBZ had, GT would have lasted until 2003 or 2004.

[GhostEmperorX]

I would imagine Toei wanted GT to be as long as DBZ was. Toei is known to milk something to death until it stop selling. They probably wanted GT to go on for a long time or had another DB series plan to air right afterwards.

It doesn't feel right for Toei to end of their biggest franchises and call it wraps at 65 something episodes. If GT had the same episode count that DBZ had, GT would have lasted until 2003 or 2004.

Honestly, the production side gave no indications of ever lasting that long. Also important to note is its status as an anime original rather than a manga adaptation, not 100% sure on how related that is though.
However they did make some massive changes on who was producing what and it didn't seem like something that would last anywhere near as long.

At the least, I know of one department where this was true, seeing as it never had anything to do with the franchise again afterward.

[Hellspawn28]

Toei milks their other franchises for a long like Sentai and Kamen Rider. Surly, they would have Dragon Ball be on going long running series that they could milk yearly or biyearly.

[GhostEmperorX]

If I may, those two have about 48-50 or so episodes a series at least. And they're always being refreshed somehow, not running for longer than a year.
Also, KR was dead throughout the 90's before getting a revival show in 2000 (first Heisei entry), while Sentai was always going on non-stop every year (even now), which happens to be one of its selling points.
DB of course wasn't just a series that lasted a single year (like any other manga adaptation they did) so it's quite a different story off that alone.
(Aside Toei Animation being a different department from the main Toei Company.)

[MasenkoHA]

Also Kamen Rider and Super Sentai are advertainment series first. They exist to promote toylines for Bandai. That's not to say certain part of Dragon Balls don't promote toys or video games but that's not it's primary reason for existing.
Series like Yu-gi-oh, Pokemon, Super Sentai, and Digimon are going to continue and refresh because Konami/Nintendo/Bandai pretty much demands they do

[taikufuru]

In a scenario that they planned to end in episode 40 and had to change plans, it wouldn't be surprising for them to change the scripts it in advance, adding this hint that things would continue.

What I find most strange is the decision to air the TV Special after the Baby events, before the Evil Dragons arc (and Epilogue) even begins.

I personally think it's a shame they didn't end it there. It would be a single organic story arc that would live up to its title, and would consolidate itself as a "small" post-Dragon Ball Z parallel adventure.

And also because I think what comes after episode 40 lacks fun and creativity. It's just boring and soulless.

Interesting because I think that final arc is one of the best of the entire series. It's original and the ending especially is heartfelt.

Whenever people talk about GT having “good ideas, bad execution” I think they’re primarily referring to the Evil Dragons arc. On paper, it’s a great and original idea that serves as a very fitting end to Goku’s adventures, but the way it plays out is kind of underwhelming. Much of the arc plays like an episodic monster of the week situation where Goku, Pan and Giru are the only characters involved, and even once the other characters eventually show up, they’re little more than fodder.

It doesn’t help that despite the allegedly high stakes of the arc, you don’t get the feeling that the gravity of the situation is really weighing on any of the characters until episode 63, which is when the conflict comes to an end.

My problem with the idea of Goku traveling the world in search of the Evil Dragons who have the Dragon Balls is that it seems redundant with the first part of the series.

I imagine that mixing the two ideas (space travel and evil dragons) would be more effective, especially because the pretext for searching the universe for the Dragon Balls is very stupid. Earth explode? What?

How about sending each dragon to a planet and highlighting the feeling of guilt due to the exaggerated use of the Dragon Balls, harming other planets throughout the universe.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I imagine that mixing the two ideas (space travel and evil dragons) would be more effective, especially because the pretext for searching the universe for the Dragon Balls is very stupid. Earth explode? What?

How about sending each dragon to a planet and highlighting the feeling of guilt due to the exaggerated use of the Dragon Balls, harming other planets throughout the universe.

I agree, for all GT's good ideas the idea of the Earth exploding if the black star Dragon Balls weren't returned wasn't one of them, and felt like forced tension.

It would have been more interesting if the black star Dragon Balls had to be brought back together because only they could return Goku to his adult state and while he was travelling the universe trying to find them the Dragon Balls on Earth cracked and the Evil Dragons started wrecking havoc upon the universe. If Goku and friends only realised the consequences after Baby was defeated and most living creatures in the universe were killed there would be a lot more shame in overusing the Dragon Balls.

TOEI probably would have considered this too dark though.