Goku letting Vegeta go is a very touching scene

[Yuji]

I was watching the Saiyan arc in the anime and when I came to the scene where Goku pleads with Kuririn to let Vegeta go, I found myself tearing up a bit. I began wondering why because it's not typically a scene fans mention when discussing the more emotional and gut
-wrenching moments in the series. Part of it is the sublime soundtrack placement, part of it is the context of all the characters we know having been killed and Kuririn's desperation over avenging their deaths. But I think there's something profoundly touching about the image of a broken down, bloodied and battered, innocent and kind-hearted man asking for a selfish request for one of the first times in his life, and it being possibly one of only times where he verbalises his feelings so extensively. Even if it's a selfish request and will presumably bring more harm than good, you have to respect an individual's desire for self improvement and actualization.

The scene here.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I was watching the Saiyan arc in the anime and when I came to the scene where Goku pleads with Kuririn to let Vegeta go, I found myself tearing up a bit. I began wondering why because it's not typically a scene fans mention when discussing the more emotional and gut
-wrenching moments in the series. Part of it is the sublime soundtrack placement, part of it is the context of all the characters we know having been killed and Kuririn's desperation over avenging their deaths. But I think there's something profoundly touching about the image of a broken down, bloodied and battered, innocent and kind-hearted man asking for a selfish request for one of the first times in his life, and it being possibly one of only times where he verbalises his feelings so extensively. Even if it's a selfish request and will presumably bring more harm than good, you have to respect an individual's desire for self improvement and actualization.

The scene here.

Actually this scene IS discussed a lot, but its so good it actually deserves a new thread and I commend you for making it. I love it. Any version of DBZ worth its salt will move you to tears by the end. The Japanese and Latin American Z dub certainly do.

[TheGreatness25]

I've seen it discussed negatively before. "Oh, Goku is so stupid!" But I agree with you; I think this scene is great. You can also feel Kuririn's pain in it.

As a kid, I was all "There are no Super Saiyans," etc., but as an adult, I really enjoy just how down and dirty the Saiyan arc was. It was a gritty fight.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I have a much less kind take than "Goku is so stupid": "Goku is so selfish". This selfishness was fine back then when it was the very first time Goku asked something for himself but by Krillin enabling him he becomes way more derangedly selfish as time goes on.


Still this scene as is is still incredibly moving and touching, its a very rare scene in Dragon Ball that is full of moving emotion and pathos.

[ABED]

This isn't the first time. Goku asked everyone to not interfere in his fight against Piccolo even after his body was wrecked. Goku has a history of this and it's not a trait that grows. He's the same guy, but the scale of the threat grows.

But yes, I do find this touching. I like the acknowledgement that this is a big ask.

[AliTheZombie13]

I'll put my two cents here: Goku is selfish AND stupid.

Vegeta has clearly stated/demonstrated both in anime (Arlian filler) and manga (Gallick Ho) that he can easily destroy planets while no one is looking. Don't ask me what would happen afterwards, if Toriyama had come up with the "Saiyans can't breathe in space" plot point yet or not, but he can and would. Saiyan Saga!Vegeta was also not characterized as the walking piece of proud stupidity he was in the Cell Saga, urging Nappa to kill everybody before Goku arrived and proved to be a problem.

This wasn't much of a problem with Piccolo, who could destroy continents (?), but that would make him known and give the heroes a chance to fight back. My problem with Vegeta, and every other villain that comes after Piccolo, is that If they ever came back one day, hid their Ki, and blew up the planet while no one was looking, that was it. Everyone died, have a good day. In fact, King Cold had suggested that Freeza do just that, but because Freeza was following the script and too stupid to do that, it didn't happen.

I'll give it this, though: At least with Vegeta, Toriyama laid out his intentions loud and clear: Goku's decision was portrayed as stupid and selfish, and that is far more forgivable than Toriyama playing this game in later arcs where Goku was suddenly and inexplicably "so pure and merfciful" that he kept letting people go for no reason.

[GokuHater]

Funny thing is in the og manga, the scene wasn't particularly touching. They made it so in the anime and while I agree it is touching Toei added meaning to it with mercy and giving a second chance.

In the manga it was more like Goku going "he's the best sparing partner I had, would be a pity" with even Krilin saying Vegeta is not like Piccolo and won't change.
Kind of the difference they made in 20x Kaio Ken scene.

All in all I like the scene but being a parent one thing sticks out for me. I understand Goku would want to endanger himself but I can't imagine risking your child's life for this especially after what he went through :p

[Zephyr]

This wasn't much of a problem with Piccolo, who could destroy continents (?), but that would make him known and give the heroes a chance to fight back. My problem with Vegeta, and every other villain that comes after Piccolo, is that If they ever came back one day, hid their Ki, and blew up the planet while no one was looking, that was it. Everyone died, have a good day. In fact, King Cold had suggested that Freeza do just that, but because Freeza was following the script and too stupid to do that, it didn't happen.

I'll give it this, though: At least with Vegeta, Toriyama laid out his intentions loud and clear: Goku's decision was portrayed as stupid and selfish, and that is far more forgivable than Toriyama playing this game in later arcs where Goku was suddenly and inexplicably "so pure and merfciful" that he kept letting people go for no reason.

Yeah, Goku does get kinda lucky that through his tenacity and skill he ends up wounding the pride of these bad dudes such they're compelled to settle the score with him directly later on, to the point that they won't simply go for the clean and pragmatic snuffing out of the man. It's not enough to kill Goku past this point, they also need to prove to themselves that they can actually beat him in a way that satisfies their ego the next time around. To an extent, he gives his enemies the "martial arts bug", as far back as Tenshinhan, who despite starting out wanting revenge for Tao Pai Pai's death, scolds Chaozu for interfering with the integrity of the match.

Even Gero could have simply built an ultimate killing machine and sent it to kill Goku in his sleep, if the guy's death is all he really wanted. Instead, he turned himself into a fighter through the magic of technology, and attacked people with his other creations, almost as if to bait the guy out to throw hands. Sometimes I wonder how much more of Gero's "martial arts bug" we would have seen had Toriyama's original plans for the arc not changed. Instead we saw his Martial Arts Bug™ in the form of Cell, which was okay.

When Dragon Ball is read as a sports story with fantasy kung fu and sci-fi window dressing, this all starts to click into place, and the selfishness and "stupidity" of the protagonist betrays a certain purity of drive and commitment to the sport that just activates the serotonin for me.

[ABED]

I'll put my two cents here: Goku is selfish AND stupid.

Vegeta has clearly stated/demonstrated both in anime (Arlian filler) and manga (Gallick Ho) that he can easily destroy planets while no one is looking. Don't ask me what would happen afterwards, if Toriyama had come up with the "Saiyans can't breathe in space" plot point yet or not, but he can and would. Saiyan Saga!Vegeta was also not characterized as the walking piece of proud stupidity he was in the Cell Saga, urging Nappa to kill everybody before Goku arrived and proved to be a problem.

This wasn't much of a problem with Piccolo, who could destroy continents (?), but that would make him known and give the heroes a chance to fight back. My problem with Vegeta, and every other villain that comes after Piccolo, is that If they ever came back one day, hid their Ki, and blew up the planet while no one was looking, that was it. Everyone died, have a good day. In fact, King Cold had suggested that Freeza do just that, but because Freeza was following the script and too stupid to do that, it didn't happen.

I'll give it this, though: At least with Vegeta, Toriyama laid out his intentions loud and clear: Goku's decision was portrayed as stupid and selfish, and that is far more forgivable than Toriyama playing this game in later arcs where Goku was suddenly and inexplicably "so pure and merfciful" that he kept letting people go for no reason.

Muten Roshi could destroy the moon. Piccolo is MAGNITUDES stronger than him.

Goku let people go for a VERY specific reason - to fight them again. It's really just Freeza that he shows mercy to.

Toei added meaning to it with mercy and giving a second chance.

That was FUNi not Toei.

[MasenkoHA]

I want to add, Goku also only really kills in self defense or in the heat of battle. Goku would have probably been a-okay with killing Freeza in combat but leaving him to suffer and die was probably too cold blooded for him.

Funny thing is in the og manga, the scene wasn't particularly touching. They made it so in the anime and while I agree it is touching Toei added meaning to it with mercy and giving a second chance.

In the manga it was more like Goku going "he's the best sparing partner I had, would be a pity" with even Krilin saying Vegeta is not like Piccolo and won't change.
Kind of the difference they made in 20x Kaio Ken scene.

The Toei version is pretty much 1 to 1 with what happened in the manga. Funimation did what they tend to do pre-2010 and rewrote the scene to be the exact opposite. Instead of Krillin saying Vegeta won't change like Piccolo did and Goku agreeing but asking to spare him anyways because he was the toughest opponent ever and it would be a waste to kill him, Funi changed it to Goku reasoning that showing Vegeta mercy could lead him to changing like Piccolo did and Krillin agreeing with that sentiment.

All in all I like the scene but being a parent one thing sticks out for me. I understand Goku would want to endanger himself but I can't imagine risking your child's life for this especially after what he went through :p

The point of Goku's character is he prioritizes a good fight over anything else including his own son's safety.

[ABED]

I want to add, Goku also only really kills in self defense or in the heat of battle. Goku would have probably been a-okay with killing Freeza in combat but leaving him to suffer and die was probably too cold blooded for him.

To expand on this, Goku is more lenient when he's calm and in control of the situation.

People's mileage will vary based on how much they hate how battle hungry Goku is, but even though Goku's reasons for letting Vegeta go are questionable to say the least, the performances and score in the anime are strong. It doesn't come off as cloying.

[Zephyr]

Muten Roshi could destroy the moon. Piccolo is MAGNITUDES stronger than him.

Further, as Piccolo flies away, Goku watches and thinks to himself "Train hard, Piccolo! Get as strong as you can..."

Goku let people go for a VERY specific reason - to fight them again. It's really just Freeza that he shows mercy to.

With Freeza there's also the sense that Goku wants him to live with a shattered ego. Before Freeza cuts himself in half, Goku decides to stop the fight (when he likely could have killed Freeza), saying "I'm satisfied. Your pride's been shredded." and "You've felt fear...haven't you? What's the point in rubbing it in? You just go off and cower someplace..." In a way, killing him would have been the merciful thing.

[Koitsukai]

I find it hilarious that while Krilin and Goku are debating Geets' character and intentions, Vegeta is behind them slowly, and I mean slowly, trying to get into his pod, only to fail and drop to the ground.

[WittyUsername]

I’d argue the music choice doesn’t really work with the scene. It’s too sappy and sentimental. In fact, it ironically works better with FUNimation’s rewrite, and it wasn’t even written with that music in mind.

[ABED]

I’d argue the music choice doesn’t really work with the scene. It’s too sappy and sentimental. In fact, it ironically works better with FUNimation’s rewrite, and it wasn’t even written with that music in mind.

And I'd argue that it is in fact a sentimental moment for Goku. He's having to ask this from his friend. It's not a logical plea. It's purely emotional on his part and Kuririn is clearly emotional having the guy that murdered his friends right in front of him powerless to stop him from finishing him off.

[MasenkoHA]

I’d argue the music choice doesn’t really work with the scene. It’s too sappy and sentimental. In fact, it ironically works better with FUNimation’s rewrite, and it wasn’t even written with that music in mind.

I wouldn’t go as far as saying it doesn't fit but I do feel like it was a case of the music editor being super reliant on Z movie 1's soundtrack at that point (seriously once Nappa and Vegeta arrive like 90 percent of the music for the remainder of the Saiyan arc is from Return my Gohan). Seems like that track was used because....that was the track used when the battle was over in Z movie 1, so might as well use it when the battle is over for the Saiyan arc.

And yeah, the optimistic "the future looks brighter" sounding music oddly works better with the dub's reworked "show him there's a better way and give mercy" dialog. It actually works way better than the Nathan Johnson music it was originally scored with, which sounds like.. I have no idea what they were going for.

[GhostEmperorX]

I wouldn’t go as far as saying it doesn't fit but I do feel like it was a case of the music editor being super reliant on Z movie 1's soundtrack at that point (seriously once Nappa and Vegeta arrive like 90 percent of the music for the remainder of the Saiyan arc is from Return my Gohan). Seems like that track was used because....that was the track used when the battle was over in Z movie 1, so might as well use it when the battle is over for the Saiyan arc.

Just an aside, I wonder if this title came from somewhere within JP, as the first movie was just called "Dragon Ball Z" officially with nothing else tacked on after.
(This plain naming convention actually repeated itself for certain video games. Real confusing honestly.)

[MasenkoHA]

I wouldn’t go as far as saying it doesn't fit but I do feel like it was a case of the music editor being super reliant on Z movie 1's soundtrack at that point (seriously once Nappa and Vegeta arrive like 90 percent of the music for the remainder of the Saiyan arc is from Return my Gohan). Seems like that track was used because....that was the track used when the battle was over in Z movie 1, so might as well use it when the battle is over for the Saiyan arc.

Just an aside, I wonder if this title came from somewhere within JP, as the first movie was just called "Dragon Ball Z" officially with nothing else tacked on after.
(This plain naming convention actually repeated itself for certain video games. Real confusing honestly.)

Kanzenshuu got you covered https://www.kanzenshuu.com/rumor/the-ti ... z-movie-1/

I get "Return my Gohan" isn't the official title but I stick with it because 1. It's fun to say 2. Saying DBZ movie 1 over and over gets boring 3. Dead Zone is a stupid title

[GhostEmperorX]

It's cool that it appeared in official media, and it seems ok to go with anyway.
But sometimes these people were just really lazy with their naming procedures. Adding it as a product in certain places is a nightmare because I'm not exactly sure how to even disambiguate it (within the parameters of said site) if going with the original title.

[AliTheZombie13]

Wanted to add a few more things here:
Even if Piccolo was magnitudes stronger than Roshi, and could destroy the planet, I ask you this: What does he have to benefit from it?
As far as I was aware, Piccolo wanted to turn the Earth into Demon Land, not destroy it.
And if he did destroy it, could he breathe in space? Where would he go from there? Would he just float around endlessly, bored for his life?

With Vegeta and other villains introduced after, the stakes change. Vegeta, Freeza, etc, have no affiliation with the Earth. They could blow it up and go back to wherever they came from and nothing would change in their daily lives. No villain introduced before Vegeta had stakes as high as "If you fail, it's Game Over and nobody else can do anything about it afterwards." And that makes Goku's letting his enemies go all the more frustrating.

Also, I cannot imagine for the love of my life seeing Child Goku, who I consider to be a much smarter character, doing this in his confrontation with Piccolo, Tao Pai Pai, or any of the other many innocent-life-threatening foes, really. "Oh, okay. I'm satisfied, because your spirit is broken or whatever. Bye, don't go killing any more people!" While I do understand Toriyama didn't intend Goku to be a Superman, he is depicted time and again as being infuriated by the killing of innocents, him being fully aware what a monster Vegeta, Freeza and all the other future villains are, only makes it worse.

If I believed Toriyama was a good writer, I would see Goku's newfound sense of life valuing as character development and a sign that he has embraced adulthood. But as I have seen the Cell and Boo Sagas, and by extension all of Super, I can't swallow it as anything more than plot-induced stupidity.