Anyone else disappointed with the whole new cell max, gohan beast, orange piccolo etc

[FiReFTW]

I loved dragon ball super, even tho it was not on the level of dragonball z, lacked a lot of things, but it was pretty good in its own way.

I also loved the way manga was going after the anime now, specially with some very unique things.
Moro.. magic etc... for example was very unique. Never have we had someone like this before... but then they go screw it up completely towards the end by slowly ignoring more and more of his magic and focusing just on plain battle power like always before... they really messed up here with this opportunity... that was a major disappointment.

After that we had some other directions with Granolah etc which was suprizingly interesting.

But this direction they went now after this is again quite silly if you ask me. And extremely disappointing.

First of all I'm all for Vegeta going his own way and getting his own transformation, keeping on par with Goku, but honestly his Ego transformation is hella ugly.... and also st*pid, strategy of it is getting pummeled in order to get stronger, they could have made something similar but not to this extreme.

Then we have Cell max now.... da fk??? Why do they keep bringing back old villans? Its basically nothing new at this point, it was one thing with freeza but now they keep doing it with others aswell? Original dragonball had some iconic villans aswell, did they bring any of those back in dragon ball z? Are they seriously so freaking bad with creativity and originality that they have to keep bringing back old villans? Its sad to be honest... and boring.

Then Orange Piccolo again such an ugly transformation, couldn't they make it a bit better? I also find it a bit silly that he is suddenly apparently at the level of instinct goku and ego vegeta, maybe they forgot what a HUGEEEEEE IMMENSE leap the saiyan god transformation was at the start of super? LIGHT YEARS stronger than any super saiyan transformation before like super saiyan 3, and then we had blue after that.... blue kaioken 20x etc etc... and Ultra instinct and ego are LIGHT YEARS above that, so now a Piccolo that was nowhere near the saiyans suddenly jumps so high, that is at the level of an angelic power, its frankly comedic. Sorry, but its true, yes dragonball had some powercreep at times but this is at the level of RIDICILOUS.

Beast Gohan, what a joke, basically the same thing as SSJ2 with bigger hair, again what a lack of originality, the way he achieved it also silly on so many levels and very disappointing.

Also basically its almost like a repeat of cell vs gohan ssj2, like the way everything happens it has so many similarities with the story, again very very dry originality, its very disapointing.

I'm very worried with the direction dragonball is heading, I love the franchise but its been going in a downward slope...

Maybe it might sound like I'm a crybaby but I'm just stating my opinion, wish to hear from you guys aswell..

[ZombieVito]

Cell Max is not Cell...

Piccolo going from base to UI level with just Orange is fine since he has another transformation in between. Besides, I rather have this than have him do basically nothing of real importance like the last 30 years.

Gohan Beast's hair is a little bit ridiculous but I have started to warm up to it. Also how was it silly? Besides Ultimate, all of Gohan's forms have been achieved by rage.

[The Monkey King]

Gohan Beast's hair is a little bit ridiculous but I have started to warm up to it. Also how was it silly? Besides Ultimate, all of Gohan's forms have been achieved by rage.

By being an ugly looking rehash transformation with ZERO foreshadowing, build up or explanation. It's nothing more than Nostalgia baiting garbage.

How is this even a question seriously? It's the most creatively bankrupt transformation that Toriyama has touched, the same level of absolute jingle keys trash as Rage Trunks. And it will never be explained, all of Gohan's other transformations have been explained. What the hell is "Beast" even? Is it a super saiyan form? We don't know and Toriyama doesn't care.



How anyone can even think of defending this thing is beyond me.

[FiReFTW]

Gohan Beast's hair is a little bit ridiculous but I have started to warm up to it. Also how was it silly? Besides Ultimate, all of Gohan's forms have been achieved by rage.

By being an ugly looking rehash transformation with ZERO foreshadowing, build up or explanation. It's nothing more than Nostalgia baiting garbage.

How is this even a question seriously? It's the most creatively bankrupt transformation that Toriyama has touched, the same level of absolute jingle keys trash as Rage Trunks. And it will never be explained, all of Gohan's other transformations have been explained. What the hell is "Beast" even? Is it a super saiyan form? We don't know and Toriyama doesn't care.



How anyone can even think of defending this thing is beyond me.

Exactly!

[Jiren The Alpha]

It feels like every Dragon Ball fan is reading the same script when it comes to complain about the series. Come on guys, at least complain about something new, don't be "creatively bankrupt" lol

[ZombieVito]

By being an ugly looking rehash transformation with ZERO foreshadowing, build up or explanation. It's nothing more than Nostalgia baiting garbage.

How is this even a question seriously? It's the most creatively bankrupt transformation that Toriyama has touched, the same level of absolute jingle keys trash as Rage Trunks. And it will never be explained, all of Gohan's other transformations have been explained. What the hell is "Beast" even? Is it a super saiyan form? We don't know and Toriyama doesn't care.



How anyone can even think of defending this thing is beyond me.

False.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Orange Piccolo looks great wym

[Hugo Boss]

In regards to Gohan Beast, Toriyama says he based it on his SS2 design, considering rage was the trigger this time again.

I think the name is self explanatory. This is not a Super Saiyan form, but it’s totally related to his Saiyan blood and inner beast that he always manifested in moments of shocking emotions. Gohan basically made that a form.

[Kazuya Mishima]

Then we have Cell max now.... da fk??? Why do they keep bringing back old villans? Its basically nothing new at this point, it was one thing with freeza but now they keep doing it with others aswell? Original dragonball had some iconic villans aswell, did they bring any of those back in dragon ball z? Are they seriously so freaking bad with creativity and originality that they have to keep bringing back old villans?

See people come out with this every now and then. Act like Toei and Toriyama are to blame because they don't give us new villains, just rehash the old ones but it's not their fault. It's the fans fault.

Resurrection F brought back Frieza. The movie made a lot of money, a good chunk more than the previous one with the original villain. Then Broly brought back....Broly. Again it made more, worldwide it made a fortune.

Then you go and have something like Super Hero and yeah it did bring back Cell but that was never advertised. The Gammas, new characters, they were the antagonists based on all marketing. What happens? It's the least successful of the lot.

It's no different with the TV series as well. The Future Trunks by far had the best TV ratings and manga sales. Why was that? Because that brought back Trunks.

The manga in general has seen sales decline over the past few years. There was one particular uptick though, one volume of the lot that saw a decent bump in sales and which one was it? The one with Bardock on the cover. The one where Bardock had a good role.

This is why they do it. They are not out of ideas. It's just been shown multiple times that the series sees more success when it brings back old popular characters.

That is what sells.

[JulieYBM]

I like the character designs—althought Cell Max looks like a pain in the ass to draw and animate—but I think if I had any issues it's that there wasn't as much dedicated character development and exploration going on before these new forms were unlocked. Moments like a first transformation and battle are fun because they are a cultimation of a character's journey, and with the way that Toriyama continually trys to avoid writing too dramatic a story, I think that that just undercuts the excitement in seeing a character like Piccolo achieve a new transformation after all this time of not really being a major focus of a storyline.

[Hellspawn28]

Then we have Cell max now.... da fk??? Why do they keep bringing back old villans? Its basically nothing new at this point, it was one thing with freeza but now they keep doing it with others aswell? Original dragonball had some iconic villans aswell, did they bring any of those back in dragon ball z? Are they seriously so freaking bad with creativity and originality that they have to keep bringing back old villans? Its sad to be honest... and boring.

Cell Max is not the same Cell from before. He is still a different and new character.

[ChronoTwigger]

-Hey, look, Gohan got a new unexplained form!-
-Like Vegeta SuperSayanBlue-
-No, wait, Vegeta SSBlue was... no, I'm quite sure they told us about... ARGH, ok, Orange Piccolo? The dragon adding a new form?-
-SuperSayanGod. "Dragon, how can I achieve a form that could allowed me to beat *all possible previous menaces* and you never told me before"?-
-Uhmmmmmmmmm.... probably so, I concede. And what about the same enemy? Again and again?-
-Like Goku fighting Frieza?-
-Something alike....oh, stop it! I'm just telling they are out of creativity!-
-They are japanese. They aren't creative. Latin people are creative. Japanese are methodic. KAIZEN principle, reach perfection thru iteration.-
-But... but DBZ was so original!-
-90% of it was derived material. Sometime from Tezuka, sometime from other Toriyama works. Wanna see how they conceptualized Frieza from DragonQuest?-
-STOP IT! YOU'RE KILLING MY DREAMS!-

[nato25]

By being an ugly looking rehash transformation with ZERO foreshadowing, build up or explanation. It's nothing more than Nostalgia baiting garbage.

How is this even a question seriously? It's the most creatively bankrupt transformation that Toriyama has touched, the same level of absolute jingle keys trash as Rage Trunks. And it will never be explained, all of Gohan's other transformations have been explained. What the hell is "Beast" even? Is it a super saiyan form? We don't know and Toriyama doesn't care.



How anyone can even think of defending this thing is beyond me.

False.

The problem is what did gohan do to aim for that form? Stopped training again?

I actually loved beast but why didn't he transform into this on any of his other rage attempts, or when he saw his brother and his mentor get absorbed by buu?

I don't think the designs lazy, but the achievement and explanation sure is.

[Basaku]

Visually I admit i have issues with Orange Piccolo design, as well as with oversized Gohan Blanco hair, but U will still take that anyday over neverending Goku+Vegeta sole focus.

[Zephyr]

Orange Piccolo and Beast Gohan have funny designs, and the hatred people have for them only make them funnier.

[Jack Bz]

I hate how the current designs for all the strongest characters except Goku (Broly, Piccolo, Vegeta, and Gohan) are now all intentionally big and/or monstrous.

It honestly doesn't seem very Dragon Ball to me.

[Civic]

I love both designs. I instantly liked Orange Piccolo (the scene where Gamma 2 stops punching him and Piccolo is staring him down is metal as fuck) but it took a while to get on board with Gohan Beast. Not sure what it is but I have slowly come to enjoy the look of it too.

[Hugo Boss]

I’ve seen a theory those forms have some kind of relationship with Hindu lores, and are even hinted sometimes within Dragon Ball’s own universe.

For Piccolo (Hanuman), it would the form of the legendary dragon clan champion, since the dragon balls were supposed to reward Namekian warriors that proved to be worthy in times of need.

For Gohan (Ramayan), it would be him carrying on Piccolo’s legacy as the ultimate demon-like warrior. In DBS chapter #91, Piccolo does suggest that we would mold Pan to be the perfect little demon, much like when he trained Gohan in the Saiyan saga. Using the makankosappo helps to drive that point home.

[Cipher]

I hate how the current designs for all the strongest characters except Goku (Broly, Piccolo, Vegeta, and Gohan) are now all intentionally big and/or monstrous.

It honestly doesn't seem very Dragon Ball to me.

I actually appreciate this after more than a half decade of very streamlined designs. We're now back in the Super Saiyan 3 and 4-inspired "Screw it, get ugly" realm again, and I'm kind of here for it, just as I was for the streamlined looks when they were still refreshing.

[Basaku]

I hate how the current designs for all the strongest characters except Goku (Broly, Piccolo, Vegeta, and Gohan) are now all intentionally big and/or monstrous.

It honestly doesn't seem very Dragon Ball to me.

I actually appreciate this after more than a half decade of very streamlined designs. We're now back in the Super Saiyan 3 and 4-inspired "Screw it, get ugly" realm again, and I'm kind of here for it, just as I was for the streamlined looks when they were still refreshing.

We just need that SSJ4 recanonized (they can call it whatever they want) and I'll be ready accept another 10 more modern-Toriyama stick-figure designs in a martial arts fighting manga. But seriously, they are often just more exciting than streamlined recolors... even the original SSJ wasn't a barebones recolor but a new L'oreal hairdo as well. It's exciting visually, no grand philosophy here