Could this be the reason they don't continue DB Super series yet?

[Cure Dragon 255]

Saitou Tamaki mentions in his book 戦闘美少女の精神分析 (Sentou bishoujo no Seishin Bunseki; Beautiful Fighting Girl) how manga and anime often work in ways that match stuff like kodan, manpu, and even atemporality and kairological time.

Spoiler:

I think Dragon Ball often has these 'kodan' moments, where a single moment in time (five minutes on Namek, for example) is 'grossly exaggerated' for the sake of describing that moment. We see similar things in other long-running JUMP comics, like hundreds of chapters of BLEACH all occuring on the same day.

I always wanted to learn more about this book. I always wanted but felt too afraid to ask. Thank you Miss Julie.

[AliTheZombie13]

"Let them. Make 7 episodes all about that. Please, let them go to Namek. At least SOMETHING will happen."

YOu guys are exaggerating. Not only do I have a hard time believing you would want an idea that sounds this boring even on paper, you are exaggerating about how long the fights are.

You and I have vastly different opinions on what "boring" constitutes.

Week 1: Goku and Freeza fight.
Week 2: Goku and Freeza are still fighting.
Week 3: Goku and Freeza are still fighting.
Week 4: Goku and Freeza are still fighting.
Week 5: Goku and Freeza are still fighting, now with 25% more trashtalk.
Week 6: Goku and Freeza are still fighting, now with 25% more Kaio-ken failing!
Week 7: Goku and Freeza are still fighting, now with 25% more Piccolo stalling!
Week 8: Goku and Freeza are still fighting, now with 25% more Genki-dama failing!
Week 9: Goku becomes Super Saiyan! (And then, they continue fighting for over 10 more weeks)

Call me crazy, but I would take anything over the same characters getting repeatedly rammed over a mountain in a thousand different ways while the story goes absolutely nowhere for over 2 months. The Chi-Chi storyline would be pointless, but at least, it wouldn't be any more pointless than 90% of Goku vs. Freeza, and it would give me a highly likely more diverse storyline to follow.

[MasenkoHA]

"Let them. Make 7 episodes all about that. Please, let them go to Namek. At least SOMETHING will happen."

YOu guys are exaggerating. Not only do I have a hard time believing you would want an idea that sounds this boring even on paper, you are exaggerating about how long the fights are.

You and I have vastly different opinions on what "boring" constitutes.

Week 1: Goku and Freeza fight.
Week 2: Goku and Freeza are still fighting.
Week 3: Goku and Freeza are still fighting.
Week 4: Goku and Freeza are still fighting.
Week 5: Goku and Freeza are still fighting, now with 25% more trashtalk.
Week 6: Goku and Freeza are still fighting, now with 25% more Kaio-ken failing!
Week 7: Goku and Freeza are still fighting, now with 25% more Piccolo stalling!
Week 8: Goku and Freeza are still fighting, now with 25% more Genki-dama failing!
Week 9: Goku becomes Super Saiyan! (And then, they continue fighting for over 10 more weeks)

Call me crazy, but I would take anything over the same characters getting repeatedly rammed over a mountain in a thousand different ways while the story goes absolutely nowhere for over 2 months. The Chi-Chi storyline would be pointless, but at least, it wouldn't be any more pointless than 90% of Goku vs. Freeza, and it would give me a highly likely more diverse storyline to follow.

See, I think my thoughts are somewhere in the middle of you two. I sure as hell wouldn't want a 7 episode arc of Chi Chi traveling to Namek (of which she would inevitably have to fail and land back on earth to line up with the manga) right in the middle of the fight with Frieza, but I do appreciate a change of scenery from the fight. Be it shenanigans of a tiger mom on earth or the dead warriors on Kaio's planet fighting kabuki rejects.

[AliTheZombie13]

I'm not saying I want a pointless story with Chi-Chi either, I'm saying: If I have to sit through hours of nothing, at least make it a little more diverse before I bore myself out to death and end up hating Dragon Ball as a result. At the end of the day, there was little Toei could do given how Toriyama was milking this fight dry.

[JulieYBM]

Yeah, the battle between Gokuu and Freeza is extremely long in the anime for a fight that barely even moves. An new animated adaption of the fight with better directing and animation would still be a pretty long handful of episodes.

#1: Covering Chapters #306-209: Gokuu is revived and appears to the scene of Vegeta dying. After burying Vegeta, Gokuu begins battling Freeza. Gokuu's little underwater ki bullet strategy fails to outwit Freeza and the episode ends.

#2: Covering Chapters #310-316: Gokuu's Kaiou-ken is essentially useless against Freeza, so he resorts to using the Genki-dama, which requires Piccolo, Gohan and Kuririn to help distract Freeza long enough for Gokuu to gather genki from Namek and the surrounding planets. Gokuu finally tosses the Genki-dama, but in the resulting explosion Gokuu and Piccolo are assumed KIA with Freeza.

#3: Covering Chapters #317-324: Gokuu and Piccolo are found by Gohan and Kuririn, but Kuririn is killed by Freeza who has shockingly survived the Chou Genki-dama. Piccolo is knocked out of commision by Freeza as well, leading Gokuu to assume his Super Saiyan form for the first time. Gohan leaves the scene of the battle with the unconcious Piccolo. Gokuu mercilessly beat the every-loving shit out of Freeza, but Freeza manages to launch a planet-destroying ki bomb at Namek's core. Due to a poor control of his ki, Freeza fails the destroy the planet instantly, but he decides instead to just use the remaining five minutes of time to use 100% of his power to kill Son Gokuu personally. Meanwhile, Kaiou has coordinated the use of the Earth's Dragon Balls to revive everyone killed by Freeza and his men on Namek—including the Grand Elder—and then use the Dragon Balls of Namek to teleport everyone on Namek to Earth, barring Gokuu and Freeza.

#4: Chapters #324-327: Freeza accidentally cuts himself in half with his own ki technique, but Gokuu makes the decision to give some of his spare ki to Freeza. Freeza foolishly uses his ki in a futile last attack against Son Gokuu, only for his blast to be returned in full and his body obliterated. Gokuu tries to escape Namek, but is seemingly destroyed in the insuring explosion.

Heck, that's just without really doing any major plot alterations. Even then, I'd fully expect the episodes to be crammed full of extra fight scenes.

[ABED]

"Let them. Make 7 episodes all about that. Please, let them go to Namek. At least SOMETHING will happen."

YOu guys are exaggerating. Not only do I have a hard time believing you would want an idea that sounds this boring even on paper, you are exaggerating about how long the fights are.

You and I have vastly different opinions on what "boring" constitutes.

Week 1: Goku and Freeza fight.
Week 2: Goku and Freeza are still fighting.
Week 3: Goku and Freeza are still fighting.
Week 4: Goku and Freeza are still fighting.
Week 5: Goku and Freeza are still fighting, now with 25% more trashtalk.
Week 6: Goku and Freeza are still fighting, now with 25% more Kaio-ken failing!
Week 7: Goku and Freeza are still fighting, now with 25% more Piccolo stalling!
Week 8: Goku and Freeza are still fighting, now with 25% more Genki-dama failing!
Week 9: Goku becomes Super Saiyan! (And then, they continue fighting for over 10 more weeks)

Call me crazy, but I would take anything over the same characters getting repeatedly rammed over a mountain in a thousand different ways while the story goes absolutely nowhere for over 2 months. The Chi-Chi storyline would be pointless, but at least, it wouldn't be any more pointless than 90% of Goku vs. Freeza, and it would give me a highly likely more diverse storyline to follow.

If you boil down those episodes to nothing more than "they fought" and don't have any more nuance, then sure, it doesn't seem like any progress is made, but the battle has different beats about every episode, such as:

Phase 1 - Goku and Freeza test each other out
Phase 2 - Goku makes a good showing but Freeza warns him he's holding back
Phase 3 - Goku realizes he's out of his depth as Freeza toys with him and beats him nearly to death
Phase 4 - Goku, drained of his remaining energy, pulls together his trump card all the while hoping Freeza doesn't realize what's going on until he finally hits him with it
Phase 5 - Freeza survives but kills Goku's best friend thus causing a transformation turning Goku into the only thing Freeza fears - the legendary Super Saiyan. Goku's power overwhelms Freeza
Phase 6 - Freeza reaches his full power and momentarily appears to turn the table
Phase 7 - Goku overwhelms and breaks Freeza spiritually and physically.

All that said, I like the arc of the fight and feel even allowing for scenes to breathe, this could be achieved in fewer episodes than even Kai. The story makes steady progress over the course of the episodes. They even change physically. Goku's clothing gets more disheveled, his body shows physical signs of damage, Goku, then Freeza show signs of exhaustion. It's not like Man of Steel where they constantly get thrown through buildings for however long that fight is and there's not a hair out of place by the end.

Those are all big differences in the battle and is no different than any other battle scene that has an arc. It just tells it over 20 or so episodes. Could it have been fewer? Yes, in large part because they interspersed extraneous material just to allow the author to get ahead. Then there's the flashback episodes that while in the streaming era feels aggravating, makes sense pre-DVD.

I think your view of "nowhere" is so limiting. It is a show about fighting. Of course it's going to spend a lot of episodes on big fights.

It's a fighting show. They are going to fight. All the plot in the show is ultimately subservient to the end where it's solved with a big fight. So yes, the constant cutaways to Chichi were more pointless and boring which is the cardinal sin of storytelling.

[Quebaz]

"Let them. Make 7 episodes all about that. Please, let them go to Namek. At least SOMETHING will happen."

YOu guys are exaggerating. Not only do I have a hard time believing you would want an idea that sounds this boring even on paper, you are exaggerating about how long the fights are.

You and I have vastly different opinions on what "boring" constitutes.

Week 1: Goku and Freeza fight.
Week 2: Goku and Freeza are still fighting.
Week 3: Goku and Freeza are still fighting.
Week 4: Goku and Freeza are still fighting.
Week 5: Goku and Freeza are still fighting, now with 25% more trashtalk.
Week 6: Goku and Freeza are still fighting, now with 25% more Kaio-ken failing!
Week 7: Goku and Freeza are still fighting, now with 25% more Piccolo stalling!
Week 8: Goku and Freeza are still fighting, now with 25% more Genki-dama failing!
Week 9: Goku becomes Super Saiyan! (And then, they continue fighting for over 10 more weeks)

Call me crazy, but I would take anything over the same characters getting repeatedly rammed over a mountain in a thousand different ways while the story goes absolutely nowhere for over 2 months. The Chi-Chi storyline would be pointless, but at least, it wouldn't be any more pointless than 90% of Goku vs. Freeza, and it would give me a highly likely more diverse storyline to follow.

2 of the episode titles for the Portuguese dub during this section were literally "A never ending fight!" and "The fight goes on!" (episodes 88 and 89).

Also yeah no fight between 2 characters should last more than 15 episodes.

[ABED]

In Kai, it's 12 episodes.

Honestly, I didn't even completely read the first 5 arcs of the manga's Super (or 4, since Fukkatsu no F is something separate), so I considered filler what seemed like filler to me (Scenes with the Pilaf Gang, Goku saying he doesn't know what which is a kiss, etc), I know there's all that talk about "DBS doesn't have fillers", but I personally think that this comes from each one's interpretation, filler should be scenes and stories that only exist in the anime, but isn't that confusing in Super's case? Some scenes that exist in both Super anime and manga are completely different. Ultra Instinct's first appearance in the anime can qualify as filler? Idk.

It depends what you consider filler. I think filler is very specifically material added to an adaptation to pad out runtime. Some are more liberal with its usage and just say "anything that is not on the central plot". I don't like it because 1 - I don't think plot is more important than story or character, and 2 - It doesn't allow for moments that aren't about the plot but make us care.

Sure, the baseball and Arale episodes in Super aren't on plot but they are fun and after such a heavy arc, give us a nice breather.

[Zephyr]

If you boil down those episodes to nothing more than "they fought" and don't have any more nuance, then sure, it doesn't seem like any progress is made, but the battle has different beats about every episode, such as:

Phase 1 - Goku and Freeza test each other out
Phase 2 - Goku makes a good showing but Freeza warns him he's holding back
Phase 3 - Goku realizes he's out of his depth as Freeza toys with him and beats him nearly to death
Phase 4 - Goku, drained of his remaining energy, pulls together his trump card all the while hoping Freeza doesn't realize what's going on until he finally hits him with it
Phase 5 - Freeza survives but kills Goku's best friend thus causing a transformation turning Goku into the only thing Freeza fears - the legendary Super Saiyan. Goku's power overwhelms Freeza
Phase 6 - Freeza reaches his full power and momentarily appears to turn the table
Phase 7 - Goku overwhelms and breaks Freeza spiritually and physically.

This conversation inspired me to give the fight another read, taking notes along the way. I think it really breaks up into two distinct phases: the one before Super Saiyan, and the one after Super Saiyan. I understand that's so obvious that it's almost not even really worth pointing out, but each of these two phases take approximately ten chapters to unfold, and they somewhat mirror one another.
(The two phases could probably break up further into the ones you've listed, but I haven't done so myself)

In the first phase, Goku is on the defensive, and as the phase progresses he dishes out all of his big trump cards. He pulls out the biggest Kaio-ken x Kamehameha combo he can muster, before throwing out the biggest Genki Dama he can.
In some respects, this even parallels his fight with Vegeta: the antagonist is rendered livid after the big "Kaio-ken x Kamehameha combo", after which Gohan and Kuririn join the fray, before a Genki Dama is deployed as the trump card which proves inconclusive but nonetheless renders the antagonist very battered, and even more angry. Albeit, with Freeza, once people other than Goku get involved again, people start dying again.

After Goku transforms into a Super Saiyan, Freeza is now the one on the defensive, and as this phase progresses he is the one dishing out all of his big trump cards. He actually fires at the planet putting it on a time limit, whips out 100% of his strength, and he simply refuses to let the fight end until Goku finally, seemingly, kills him.

That aside, yeah, I can see how "they just fight, this is so boring" might almost be a valid criticism if you ignore all of the characterization happening as the fight unfolds. Freeza expresses excitement during the first phase, but eventually starts talking about how bored he's getting. In the second phase, once the tables have been turned, Goku is excited to see Freeza at full power, but in turn starts talking about how the fight is disappointing him. Not to mention some iconic and infamous character beats of Problematic Goku™ treating life-and-death scenarios like glorified tournament matches (though by now I understand that folks who find it difficult to relate to protagonists of strength-cultivation stories tend to see that sort of thing as wholly negative from a storytelling perspective).

There's also talk of the Saiyans and their fate, and the meaning of Goku, a Saiyan, being the one to defeat Freeza, punctuating various stages of the fight.

Two other fun bits that stood out to me for the first time, but are possibly stretches:
- in the first phase, Freeza asks Goku if he prefers to fight in the air or on the ground. Goku replies that the ground is his preference. In the second phase, after Freeza is fully powered up, he says "A hand-to-hand battle, eh...? Well, if it means that much to you..." right before they land.
- in the first phase, after Freeza reneges on his "no hands" flex, Goku says "You're too confident...it makes you leave yourself wide open..." Which felt to me like some (accidental?) foreshadowing of him slicing himself in half.

And besides all of that, there's plenty of stuff showing Kaio, God, and the Grand Elder planning things, as well as people on Earth piecing together what's happened after being teleported from Namek. So even at its most brisk, these 20-odd chapters are not nothing but fighting.

[AliTheZombie13]

I think your view of "nowhere" is so limiting. It is a show about fighting. Of course it's going to spend a lot of episodes on big fights.

It's a fighting show. They are going to fight. All the plot in the show is ultimately subservient to the end where it's solved with a big fight. So yes, the constant cutaways to Chichi were more pointless and boring which is the cardinal sin of storytelling.

You do realize that by arguing that, someone can easily counter-argue by telling you that you're validating the general criticism that Dragon Ball over-focuses on the fight scenes to its own detriment and rarely offers anything else of value to the viewer, right?

No matter how you put it, the pacing of the fight against Freeza is unjustifiably abysmal. Multiple YouTubers have shown it can easily be condensed into 3 episodes of 20 minutes each at worst, without sacrificing anything of importance. The original anime took thirty. With 30 episodes, any other anime would have already started and concluded one of its arcs, and yet Dragon Ball chose to stay in the same place for almost a year.

[MasenkoHA]

[

No matter how you put it, the pacing of the fight against Freeza is unjustifiably abysmal. Multiple YouTubers have shown it can easily be condensed into 3 episodes of 20 minutes each at worst, without sacrificing anything of importance. The original anime took thirty. With 30 episodes, any other anime would have already started and concluded one of its arcs, and yet Dragon Ball chose to stay in the same place for almost a year.

30 episodes was everything from Freeza showing up to fight Vegeta, Gohan, and Krillin in his first form to the conclusion of his fight with Goku. Somehow I doubt anyone fit all that into 3 20 minute episodes. That would be insane and would 100 percent sacrifice a lot of material as well as any sense of cohesion

The actual fight of Goku vs Freeza was 18 episodes, and while that's definitely too long for its own good, it's also nowhere near 30 episodes. You're making it sound worse than it actually is

[AliTheZombie13]

[

No matter how you put it, the pacing of the fight against Freeza is unjustifiably abysmal. Multiple YouTubers have shown it can easily be condensed into 3 episodes of 20 minutes each at worst, without sacrificing anything of importance. The original anime took thirty. With 30 episodes, any other anime would have already started and concluded one of its arcs, and yet Dragon Ball chose to stay in the same place for almost a year.

30 episodes was everything from Freeza showing up to fight Vegeta, Gohan, and Krillin in his first form to the conclusion of his fight with Goku. Somehow I doubt anyone fit all that into 3 20 minute episodes. That would be insane and would 100 percent sacrifice a lot of material as well as any sense of cohesion

The actual fight of Goku vs Freeza was 18 episodes, and while that's definitely too long for its own good, it's also nowhere near 30 episodes. You're making it sound worse than it actually is

Sorry, confused things there for a second. But yes, Goku vs. Freeza was 18 episodes, I've seen people trim that down into a "movie" format multiple times on YouTube without even removing the weird cutaways from the manga, and I don't feel like it misses anything.

[Vegetto95]

[

No matter how you put it, the pacing of the fight against Freeza is unjustifiably abysmal. Multiple YouTubers have shown it can easily be condensed into 3 episodes of 20 minutes each at worst, without sacrificing anything of importance. The original anime took thirty. With 30 episodes, any other anime would have already started and concluded one of its arcs, and yet Dragon Ball chose to stay in the same place for almost a year.

30 episodes was everything from Freeza showing up to fight Vegeta, Gohan, and Krillin in his first form to the conclusion of his fight with Goku. Somehow I doubt anyone fit all that into 3 20 minute episodes. That would be insane and would 100 percent sacrifice a lot of material as well as any sense of cohesion

The actual fight of Goku vs Freeza was 18 episodes, and while that's definitely too long for its own good, it's also nowhere near 30 episodes. You're making it sound worse than it actually is

And that's for their ENTIRE fight. Gokū first starts fighting Freeza a few minutes into episode 87 of Z, and the final blow was struck in episode 105. However, it was halfway through episode 97 that Freeza detonated Namek's core, and it explodes halfway through episode 106. So basically 9 episodes. Which a lot, but really not THAT bad considering how much they had to throw in to keep the manga ahead. It DEFINITELY gets exaggerated by the fanbase.

[ABED]

I think your view of "nowhere" is so limiting. It is a show about fighting. Of course it's going to spend a lot of episodes on big fights.

It's a fighting show. They are going to fight. All the plot in the show is ultimately subservient to the end where it's solved with a big fight. So yes, the constant cutaways to Chichi were more pointless and boring which is the cardinal sin of storytelling.

You do realize that by arguing that, someone can easily counter-argue by telling you that you're validating the general criticism that Dragon Ball over-focuses on the fight scenes to its own detriment and rarely offers anything else of value to the viewer, right?

No matter how you put it, the pacing of the fight against Freeza is unjustifiably abysmal. Multiple YouTubers have shown it can easily be condensed into 3 episodes of 20 minutes each at worst, without sacrificing anything of importance. The original anime took thirty. With 30 episodes, any other anime would have already started and concluded one of its arcs, and yet Dragon Ball chose to stay in the same place for almost a year.

I'm under no assumptions that everyone will like what I do. I like that DB focuses on the fights. It's why I and literally millions of others watch the show. If it doesn't offer anything else of value, then the audience is free to go elsewhere. I get exactly what I'm looking for out of the story. I feel the same about Super. I don't apologize for liking the things I like, no matter how silly and trivial they may be. I acknowledge their faults as I see them, but don't ask they be anything other than what they are. I like eating things that aren't healthy, and see no issue with it as long as they're not the only thing I eat.

I agree that the pacing could use a lot of work but not for a second do I believe that it could be condensed into THREE episodes without sacrificing anything of importance. The flow, rhythm, characters, emotion, mood, etc. would be lost.

I've seen people trim that down into a "movie" format multiple times on YouTube without even removing the weird cutaways from the manga, and I don't feel like it misses anything.

Sure, when you lose any nuance and miss the story being told during the fight, you wouldn't miss what is lost.

Zephyr, I loved your point about how the fight mirrors itself.

[super michael]

I don't mind filler episode like driving and baseball, they can be funny. However episode like Beerus in a costume, which the only thing it does is make Goku look bad, then that I don't enjoy.

If a fight is longer thanks to filler I don't mind that also, we get to see more action in the episode.

However if a fight is off-screen such as Vegeta vs Toppo and they focus on Goku and the peanut gallery that is bad. When they hype Goku vs Caulifla and ignore Vegeta vs Toppo, that is bad. How is it more impressive SSJ2 Goku and SSJ2 Caulifla than SSB Vegeta vs Toppo.

[Koitsukai]

I've watched those YT cuts many times, it's all about fighting, almost 3hs of just fighting, not to mention the shorter ones, it gets a little repetitive after a while, a lot of characterizations are lost in translation, the dialogue sometimes is there, sometimes it's not. There's no greater plan, there's no follow up in regards of the wishes, there's no tension or suspense.

I mean, it's not bad per se, if you feel like watching two guys beat the shit outta each other without much context, it's definitely good, when I'm in that mood it's my go-to- clip. Like for a rewatch of a bout, but it won't give you the full picture. Which is odd, if you complain that the original one is pure fighting but then happily sit down to watch exclusively the fighting portions.

[Zephyr]

If you boil down those episodes to nothing more than "they fought" and don't have any more nuance, then sure, it doesn't seem like any progress is made, but the battle has different beats about every episode, such as:

Phase 1 - Goku and Freeza test each other out
Phase 2 - Goku makes a good showing but Freeza warns him he's holding back
Phase 3 - Goku realizes he's out of his depth as Freeza toys with him and beats him nearly to death
Phase 4 - Goku, drained of his remaining energy, pulls together his trump card all the while hoping Freeza doesn't realize what's going on until he finally hits him with it
Phase 5 - Freeza survives but kills Goku's best friend thus causing a transformation turning Goku into the only thing Freeza fears - the legendary Super Saiyan. Goku's power overwhelms Freeza
Phase 6 - Freeza reaches his full power and momentarily appears to turn the table
Phase 7 - Goku overwhelms and breaks Freeza spiritually and physically.

This conversation inspired me to give the fight another read, taking notes along the way. I think it really breaks up into two distinct phases: the one before Super Saiyan, and the one after Super Saiyan. I understand that's so obvious that it's almost not even really worth pointing out, but each of these two phases take approximately ten chapters to unfold, and they somewhat mirror one another.
(The two phases could probably break up further into the ones you've listed, but I haven't done so myself)

Alright, coming back to this I think I'm ready to try my hand at dividing the fight into more than 2 larger phases, into around 10. While I agree with many that complaints about the fight's length (even in the manga) are largely overblown, I do think it can be condensed, somewhat. Not "down to three episodes", but certainly some. Having broken the fight up into 10 "stages" or steps, I think it's possible that you could give each step its own full episode, and reasonably contain everything that people love about the fight. Here's how I'd split it up:

• Episode 1 (Chapters 308, 309, 310), Phase 1 - The Warm Up
Begins with Goku burying Vegeta, ends with Goku and Freeza resolving to get serious after the paralyzing ball of light explodes.

• Episode 2 (Chapter 311), Phase 2 - Toying with Goku
Begins with Freeza offering Goku the ground advantage, and Goku telling Freeza about his overconfidence.

• Episode 3 (Chapters 312, 313), Phase 3 - Goku's Desperation: The Kaio-ken
Begins with Freeza talking about how much power he's holding back, ends with Goku's x20 Kaio-ken only pissing Freeza off.

• Episode 4 (Chapters 314, 315, 316), Phase 4 - Goku's Desperation: The Genki Dama
Begins with comments about how Goku is getting weaker, ends with the Genki Dama blowing up on Freeza.

• Episode 5 (Chapter 317), Phase 5 - The Super Saiyan
Begins with Gohan and Kuririn trying to find Goku and Piccolo, ends with Goku transforming into a Super Saiyan.

• Episode 6 (Chapters 318, 319), Phase 6 - Freeza's Desperation: Namek's Destruction?
Begins with Gohan and Piccolo leaving the battlefield, ends with Kaio afraid that Freeza just destroyed Namek.

• Episode 7 (Chapters 320, 321), Phase 7 - Freeza's Desperation: 100%
Begins with God contacting Kaio about the Dragon Balls and Freeza saying he'll use his full power, ends with Freeza fully powered up and Shenlong being summoned.

• Episode 8 (Chapters 321, 322, 323, 324), Phase 8 - Stalling for Time
Begins with Goku and Freeza resuming their fight with the latter now at 100%, ends with everyone safely off of Namek and the pair landing for their real final fight.

• Episode 9 (Chapter 325), Phase 9 - The Real Fight
Begins with Goku and Freeza beginning their final bout, ends with Goku powering down and flying away.

• Episode 10 (Chapters 325, 326, 327), Phase 10 - Freeza Refuses to Accept Defeat
Begins with Freeza throwing a Kienzan at Goku, ends with Goku blasting Freeza for the last time and looking down solemnly.

---

Detailed explanations:

Episode 1:

Spoiler:

In the first three chapters of the fight (308, 309, and 310), both Goku and Freeza are just warming up. I think these could be condensed into a single episode without sacrificing too much.

Episode 2:

Spoiler:

In Chapter 311, Goku removes his orange shirt, which represents some visual progression in the fight. This is also the chapter where they land and begin fighting on the ground, which is Goku's preference. Freeza also offers to fight without using his hands. This is the beginning of Goku being on the defensive. He is given multiple advantages, and while Freeza does end up using his hands, it is a good setup for how dire things really are for Goku, who will still be on the back foot going forward despite this. That Freeza is willing to dole out these advantages is good characterization, wanting to help Goku understand just how truly fucked he is. Whereas previously both were messing around, now is when the former is strictly toying with the latter. Also, this is where Goku mentions that Freeza leaves himself open out of overconfidence. This is transitional, sets up the remainder of this half of the fight, and possibly even sets up Freeza's own self-inflicted near-demise. So I'd prefer this chapter have its own full episode to breathe.

Episode 3:

Spoiler:

Chapters 312 and 313 each involve two elements: the possibility that Freeza is just bluffing about how little of his true power he's using, and Goku's use of the Kaio-ken (first the x10 in a dramatic reveal, followed by the x20 presented as a risky last-ditch effort). I think these can work as a single episode, with Goku throwing his first big Saiyan-arc card on the table.

Episode 4:

Spoiler:

Chapters 314, 315, and 316 are the Genki Dama chapters. Gohan notices Goku's ki has shrunk, and the latter says that he is quickly losing strength. Goku gathers energy for the Genki Dama, and Piccolo, Gohan, and Kuririn jump in to help buy time after Freeza notices it. Already angry after Goku's x20 Kaio-ken, the interference of the others drives him to destroy the planet. But just as he's preparing to do so, Goku throws the Genki Dama at him. I think these three chapters could be condensed into a single episode. This represents Goku throwing his second, and final, Saiyan-arc card on the table. Will it work!? Who knows! Having some uncertainty would make for a good end of the episode.

Episode 5:

Spoiler:

In Chapter 317 Gohan and Kuririn can barely fly, and Goku and Piccolo are nowhere to be seen. They turn up before long, and everyone prepares to leave, until...Freeza appears once again! Like Vegeta before him, the Genki Dama did not kill him, but made him even more angry. He incapacitates Piccolo and kills Kuririn. Goku transforms into a Super Saiyan. I don't view this chapter as belonging to either 'half' of the fight, and instead an important transitional moment from one to the other. Because of that, I'd prefer it to have its own episode.

Episode 6:

Spoiler:

Chapters 318 and 319 see Gohan and Piccolo exit the fight. Freeza is now being placed on the defensive, with Goku toying with him. There's some talk about the killing of innocents, comparisons between Freeza and the Saiyans, and why specifically they died. Just before the fight (or at the very beginning of it, depending on how slice things up) Goku had to deflect Freeza's not!Dodonpa. Now? He's able to dodge them, or simply take them head-on. It doesn't matter! Freeza now sees to make good on his threat to destroy the planet. I think showing the planet might have been destroyed is a good dramatic cliffhanger to end the episode on.

Episode 7:

Spoiler:

Chapter 320 shows that the planet is still around. Goku quips that Freeza was too afraid to fully blow it up. The latter says it will blow in 5 minutes anyway, and now says he'll reveal his full power, which Goku further quips about: "Why go to full power now...? Maybe...because your body can't withstand it for long anymore?!" In Chapter 321, Freeza begins powering up, and Goku is excited to finally "check out the most powerful guy in the universe at full power...", something he's been intent on doing throughout the arc. Goku wants to beat Freeza at his best, so that the latter will "have no regrets as a warrior." Finally, he muses that Freeza also wanted it this way, else the latter "would've fired at the planet again and that would've been it." As if to confirm Goku's speculation, Freeza grins and simply says "...heh..." Meanwhile, 320 shows has God contact Kaio to say that Mister Popo is gathering the Dragon Balls, and 321 has him confirming that they are now all collected. God and Kaio devise their plan to revive the Namekians with Earth's Dragon Balls, and send everyone home with Namek's Dragon Balls. Popo summons Shenlong. Some nice A-plot and B-plot going on here, and seeing Freeza's ostensibly-final trump card: his full power which was teased in the Kaio-ken chapters. Goku's body struggles to maintain the Kaio-ken, and here Freeza is teased about his body possibly struggling to maintain his own full power. I think these two chapters (mostly) work as a single episode. However, Goku and Freeza resume their fight in 321, and that part of it I would move to the next episode.

Episode 8:

Spoiler:

As said, Chapter 321 shows the fight resuming. That would form the beginning of this episode. Freeza says that was a warm-up for "the final attack", and Goku says "I hope that's all...or Id've been disappointed..." In Chapter 322, Freeza accuses Goku of buying time for Gohan to escape, and Goku then wonders to himself what is taking the lad so long. Goku fires a Kamehameha at Freeza, who charges into it. Popo makes his wish to Shenlong. In Chapter 323, Freeza tackles Goku into the water, and the Namekians are restored to life. Goku intercedes telepathically demanding to remain on the planet with Freeza. In Chapter 324, everyone but Goku and Freeza are moved from Namek to Earth. Goku says "I've been waiting for this moment", and the pair land for a hand-to-hand battle, once again. I think these chapters can be grouped together into a single episode, representing a specific stage of the fight, where Freeza has fully powered up, but Goku is still buying time for Gohan and the others to get away. Now that everyone is gone, Goku and finally have his real tournament match against the Number One In The Universe.

Episode 9:

Spoiler:

Unfortunately, after some further fighting in Chapter 325, Goku quits. Freeza has hit his peak, burned out his power, and his ki is dropping rapidly. His pride has been shredded, he's felt fear, and he's been surpassed by a lowly Saiyan. In Goku's mind, this fight is done, and there's no more point in rubbing it in. He powers down and begins flying away. Although Chapter 325 continues with Freeza throwing the Kienzan at Goku, I think Goku's initial resolve to end the fight represents a good point to close-out an episode.

Episode 10:

Spoiler:

Finishing off Chapter 325, Freeza throws a Kienzan at Goku, unwilling to let the fight end this way. Goku expected better for Freeza's final maneuver. In Chapter 326, Goku says that Freeza is just further hurting his own confidence, and that he should go off, get his strength back, and learn some new attacks if he really wants to settle things. Instead, Freeza launches a second Kienzan and, out of his own over-confidence, has left himself open to being sliced in half by his own attack. After begging for help, Freeza is given enough ki to live by Goku, who once again flies away. Finally, in Chapter 327, Freeza attacks Goku once again, before latter (seemingly) puts him down for good, a solemn expression on his face. I think Freeza's absolute desperation here all works together as a single distinct section of the fight, and thus can work as a single episode. Goku has decided that the fight is done, but Freeza absolutely refuses to accept this until he is literally killed knocked unconscious.

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I really don't think you could condense things much more than this without losing something important. Even condensing it down this much might lose something important, I don't know. I could see one making a case for my Phases 2 and 5 being folded into the surrounding ones, but that wouldn't be my preference.

The only thing I don't like about my division is that we don't have an equal number of episodes before the Super Saiyan transformation and after it, but I guess that's not the end of the world.

[JulieYBM]

Ten episodes is way too many episodes. I understand wanting to be faithful to the comic, but it's really not necessarily to try and mimic its pacing—especially for inconsequential things. Animation is a television and film format—one must think like a filmmaker—especially in a medium where you can control the speed and impact through more than just visuals. With animation you can pack a ton into just a minute—there really isn't any need to drag three fifteen chapters out across 20-22 minutes of animation.

[MasenkoHA]

Ya know we did get a movie version of the Goku and Frieza fight (really the entire Frieza arc) it was the Coola movie where the pastiche Ginyu Force was completely forgettable, except maybe Salsa if only for the random French accent Funimation gave him in the dub, Krillin got replaced with a bird, no inclusion of Shenron and Porunga for a master plan to wrap up over a years worth of plot lines, no exploding planet or race to get off before its too late and Frieza's transformations and power ups was compressed to just Coola revealing a super form

[JulieYBM]

Ya know we did get a movie version of the Goku and Frieza fight (really the entire Frieza arc) it was the Coola movie where the pastiche Ginyu Force was completely forgettable, except maybe Salsa if only for the random French accent Funimation gave him in the dub, Krillin got replaced with a bird, no inclusion of Shenron and Porunga for a master plan to wrap up over a years worth of plot lines, no exploding planet or race to get off before its too late and Frieza's transformations and power ups was compressed to just Coola revealing a super form

Hey now, Thouser was voiced by Hayami Shou, that's a hell of a good voice!