Nice essay

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Tue May 18, 2004 12:08 am

No. While some of the animation might be farmed out to Korea, that doesn't make it Korean. If that was the case, then pretty much all anime would be Korean or Chinese! And regarding Transformers, I classsified it as Japanese because it was originally Takara who created them and then teamed up with Hasbro. And how can you not like Looney Toons or Animaniacs? They're just such dang fun!

number18 · Post by **number18** » Tue May 18, 2004 12:21 am

No, it's directed by a Japanese guy (I think), and drawn by a Japanese team...cept for today's afternoon episode which was done by a Korean studio. Consquently, the animation wasn't as good. :/

You guys are like the kings of off-topic...

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Tue May 18, 2004 12:28 am

#18 , why did you change your avvie? I really liked your new one.

number18 · Post by **number18** » Tue May 18, 2004 12:31 am

I was told by the forum popo that it was too big...which it was. I haven't had the desire to resize it yet.

But back to that essay...

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Tue May 18, 2004 12:39 am

Jerseymilk wrote:No. While some of the animation might be farmed out to Korea, that doesn't make it Korean. If that was the case, then pretty much all anime would be Korean or Chinese! And regarding Transformers, I classsified it as Japanese because it was originally Takara who created them and then teamed up with Hasbro. And how can you not like Looney Toons or Animaniacs? They're just such dang fun!

Eh, I've never been that much into anvils falling on heads. Just about the only Looney Toons thing I've really liked was Space Jam, that was fun.

Alias · Post by **Alias** » Tue May 18, 2004 2:39 am

Thundercats isn't anime. The animators were Japanese, but the producers and writers were American. Same with Transformers.

Gargoyles was and is the best American animated show. Ever. I haven't seen the episodes since USA (a cable channel) stopped airing them in 2000, but my memories are clear as crystal. The characters, especially Macbeth and Demona (City of Stone, anyone?), were very deep. The story was a brilliant mixture of Shakespeare, mythology, and history. And the animation, though it sometimes varying in quality, was far better than anything that's come since. In my book, it's second only to Dragon Ball itself.

There are lots of other good American shows. Rocko's Modern Life, Pinky and the Brain, Ducktales, Pirates of Dark Water (cancelled after 13 episodes...), Aladdin's Arabian Adventures (nostalgia, mostly), TMNT (old one, also nostalgia), and I used to love Tiny Toons (anyone remember their summer vacation?). Unfortunately, the majority tends to be along the lines of Cow and Chicken trash, overly melodramatic superheroes in freakish costumes, or bratty little schoolkids with stupid parents. There hasn't been anything that's come out recently that stands out.

On the other hand, there's also a ton of bad anime. There are many that are freakishly drawn (where the characters look like psycho dolls from Hell, trying to pass themselves off as cute), truly sick/depraved/weird (Akira), horribly written (Digimon), degrading towards the female characters (Is), full of hateable characters (.hack/SIGN), etc... When I bought Neko Majin Z 3, I looked at the other manga chapters within. Every single female character was nothing more than a bimbo inserted solely for the sake of T&A and the storylines and jokes were stupid beyond belief. It's all a mixed bag when it comes to anime and manga. There are those that are great (Dragon Ball, Inuyasha, Kenshin, etc...), but those are vastly outnumbered by ones that are terrible.

Oh, and Scooby-doo can't be included in any list of great animated shows. Not on the good list, not on the okay list, not on the poor list...

tablet the eunuch · Post by **tablet the eunuch** » Tue May 18, 2004 6:46 am

Exo-Squad was also an interesting American Cartoon. One of the few Robot cartoons in the US that took itself seriously and delt with every situation somewhat realistically. for example, one of the main characters has his arm cut off, so he gets a cybernetic one. It's fairly chunky, and he has to get used to using it. He tries reading magazines and what not and rips the pages and just struggles to keep it together. Which I thought was alright.

Then it didn't have a proper ending, and I was kinda miffed

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Tue May 18, 2004 7:04 am

One thing about Akira, Alias, at least the characters looked like they were Japanese. Most animes don't earn that distinction.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Tue May 18, 2004 11:07 am

Takara didn't create Transformers, Hasbro did. The concept at least. They took a load of toys from different lines (mainly Takara, but not all), bought the rights to use them in the US, and then (in partial conjuntion with Hasbro) came up with this grand storyline. Autobots, Decepticons, Cyberton...all Hasbro. Takara then bought back those rights (or possibly got them in the original deal) and dubbed the series into Japanese, and rereleased all the toys it could under the Transformers label in Japan (some, like Jetfire, they couldn't).

Over the years, they've attained a balance. Hasbro was responsible for Beast Wars/Machines, Takara was responsible for Car Robots/Robots IN Disguise. Aramada and Energon are joint projects, toy wise. They are designed and built both in the US and Japan, although the cartoon is Japanese.

xyex wrote:As for Batman Beyond and Justice League, only BB had any artistic hints of Anime in the least, but it wasn't the art work, more the general nature of it. And Justice League screams Anime influences nearly every episode, with nearly every plot.

What? You mean every plot taken from the American comic book series? How are they even vaguely anime? And as for BB...having swooshy lines does not make the series an anime.

There is often a tendency amoung US fans to describe any domestic cartoon with vaguely mature storylines as being "anime". But really, I don't see it. The DC Animated shows may borrow a stylistic technique or two, but then the manga style was based on Disney originally. Like I said, you wouldn't consider Dexter's Lab anime just because it uses swooshy lines.

As for recent US cartoons that have stood out...apart from the aformentioned Justice League (which had a spotty first season, but really good second season) and Teen Titans, I have to admit that I really enjoy The Weekenders. Easily the funniest and most well written series Disney have ever put out (although Darkwing Duck was close). Samurai Jack, Dexter's Lab and The Powerpuff Girls are also all great (although the last two are shockingly old now). And X-Men: Evolution is really well written, despite me not caring for it's set-up.

And Beast Wars was obviously the greatest thing ever.

I should read Mike's essay.

Alias · Post by **Alias** » Tue May 18, 2004 11:26 am

Darkwing Duck? I forgot about that one. I loved that series and haven't seen it since it went off the air years ago. Must find those episodes on tape...

Jerseymilk: Akira may have had Japanese characters, but it still was one of the worst things I've seen. I got to the third or fourth volume of the manga and couldn't finish because I was too sickened by it. I hate things that have that "Someone beat me up so I'm now raping, murdering, etc... But I have angst and I'm so confused! Feel pity for me!" garbage.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Tue May 18, 2004 12:33 pm

You know, you people are all forgetting about one of the most hilarious and original cartoons on right now! "Spongebob Squarepants"! And I also quite liked "Hey Arnold" and "Angry Beavers".

And Beast Wars was obviously the greatest thing ever.

Couldn't have worded it better myself.

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Tue May 18, 2004 8:43 pm

a few clarifications

Jayce is by JMS through DIC, JMS is also known for the show Babylon 5

Thundercats was animated by toei but created and written by an american team

Transforers Armada is the same

and FLCL is actually QUITE intelligent - its just got a crazy facade - but if you want crazy theres Excel Saga. Theres nothing wrong with intelligent or mindless theres just a good mix of both oin both american shows and anime.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Tue May 18, 2004 10:51 pm

You sure Armada is written by an American team? I know Hasbro has come up with a lot of the story content (such as the use of Unicron), but I'm pretty sure that the actual episode writing is done in Japan. It's the most logical explanation for the large number of errors that occur in dialogue each and every episode.

And what's FLCL?

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Tue May 18, 2004 10:53 pm

Maybe you know it by "Fooly Cooly"? I don't know.

B-kun · Post by **B-kun** » Tue May 18, 2004 10:54 pm

PsyLiam wrote:You sure Armada is written by an American team? I know Hasbro has come up with a lot of the story content (such as the use of Unicron), but I'm pretty sure that the actual episode writing is done in Japan. It's the most logical explanation for the large number of errors that occur in dialogue each and every episode.

And what's FLCL?

FLCL/Fooly Cooly/Furi Kuri. It's an anime that seems to be completely random but is actually intelligent. It takes a couple of viewings to completely understand it. There're a surprising lot of euphenisms.

tablet the eunuch · Post by **tablet the eunuch** » Wed May 19, 2004 1:13 am

Armada could of been a rush done dub, that could possibly explain it

One of the best things about the FLCL DVDs is that the director actually explains just about everything, and where it comes from. Things make a LOT more sense after watching with the commentary

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Wed May 19, 2004 7:30 pm

"Rush done job" sums up Armada perfectly. Mini-cons changing names every episode. Someone delcaring Laserbeak to be dead, shortly before he flies in, with no-one reacting whatsoever. Unfinished animation. It's a mess.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed May 19, 2004 7:35 pm

But, but Liam, you're just supposed to watch the cool explosions and fighting. The show's not actually supposed to be consistent or good!

Mochi · Post by **Mochi** » Wed May 19, 2004 8:36 pm

I remember Gargoyles! And I loved Beast Wars! I had three Cheetor action figures (and other ones)!

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Thu May 20, 2004 12:09 am

Actually Beast Wars is surprisingly very very good stuff though its followup Beast Machinebs sucks big hairy goat balls.

Kanzenshuu

Nice essay

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