"Factoids" Section... Any Ideas?

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:23 am

True. But I was responding to number18's comment:

"True, #8 turned out to be a failure, but that's only till Goku started talking to him and changing his motives.

By saying that Goku may have made him less scared of the army, but he didn't actually make him good, since he was already good.

number18 · Post by **number18** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:37 am

PsyLiam wrote:Also, I think that technically, a cyborg IS an android.

*twitch*

No.
No, no, no, no, no.

You are right that someone with a pacemaker or a pair of glasses is technically a cyborg. Parts of their bodies are replaced and/or enhanced by these artificial creations, these man-made things that act in place of their organic parts. There is a man that has a wearable computer and eyepiece strapped to his head like a scouter 24/7, and he is considered a cyborg because of how the computer can assist his vision and the way he collects information. The device is external, but it still makes him a cyborg. A cyborg, by definition, is a bionic human. And bionic, by definition (let me get out the ole dictionary here), is "having anatomical structures that are replaced or enhanced esp. by electronic components." It tickles me to say that the 2nd definition of bionic is "superhuman."

A cyborg is never an android because an android is never human. It's an automation, something mechanical that resembles a human...but never was one. It was never flesh and blood, like a cyborg. And no matter how much of you is "real" or bionic, you are still considered a cyborg. There is no point where you transform into an android simply because you have enough mechanization inside of you. "Full-conversion borgs" in sci-fi like Ghost in the Shell and RIFTS are not androids, even though they are "full-conversion," even though their whole bodies have been mechanized. They still have some small part of humanity left, typically the brain or a part of it. They were once human.

17 and 18 do not resemble humans, they still ARE humans. They are enhanced humans. There is even a panel in Dragonball where Bulma states the twins have very few cybernetic parts, and that they are mostly bio-organically enhanced (which makes me think Gero juiced em up full of performane drugs and nanomachines and crap).

Androids and cyborgs are two completely different things. A cyborg is an enhanced creature. Cell is considered an android because he is not an enhanced creature. He was created from nothing, acts on his own (through his automations), and is humanoid. He may be a "real" creature, something made of living tissue, but he is an android, nontheless.

And that ends my little rant. I hope you don't take this as me going off on you. I mean, I was in a way, but it was only for educational purposes. Hehe. Cyborgs are just kinda my thing and I generally find that most people have a hard time understanding the differences...so I have to give a lot of instances and definitions to make the point clear. Word is BOND!

edit: I take back my thing on #8 then, Psy, if he hid the DB (which I don't remember). Maybe, if Hacchan was a human first, then there is reason behind it, like his conscious coming out. If he was really an android, though, Gero must be one asshole of a programmer. lol

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:02 am

I would agree with you, but Webster does say that one definition of an android is "An automaton that is created from biological materials and resembles a human".

Now, granted, we're getting into arguments about what counts as an "automation" (which can be definied as "a moving mechanical device resembling a human being.") This creates a confusing circular argument, as the definition now becomes "a moving mechanical device created from biological parts which resembles a human".

Now, #17 and #18 and mechanical, to a degree. They are also made from biological parts. And they also resemble humans. I'd say that fits this particular definition of "android".

number18 · Post by **number18** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:08 am

Yes, they resemble humans, and yes and the things you listed does fit the definition of android, but you are forgetting that they were always human to begin with. They were enhanced. They were not a device that was created.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:16 am

What about if, say, you believed that the operation actually did kill them, and all that remained afterwards were creatures that looked, sounded, and acted like them, but didn't contain their soles? Like, say, the vampires on Buffy? Or that episode of DS9 where Bashir replaces Vedek Bariall's (sp?) brain with positronic parts?

I know this is getting picky, but you could make the argument that they weren't completely the same people. Even ignoring something as intangible as "soul", we don't know what was done to their brains.

(edit) On the other hand, I've just looked at your site, and now want to run away and hide before you attack me with more well-researched facts.

Or at least I did, until I read the line "while Seven of Nine from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine reminds me of Number 18 simply because she is a cyborg". I mean, if you can mistake the best Star Trek show for the worst one, then obviously I automatically win all arguments against you ever. Nyah.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 2:50 am

Just curious Liam since I'm a Trekkie myself, which one do you think is worse? Deep Space Nine or Voyager?

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 9:21 pm

That question is roughly on the same level as:

"Which Star Wars movie do you prefer? The Empire Strikes Back, or The Phantom Menace?"

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:37 pm

That bad for you eh?

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:42 pm

It was like having teeth pulled out through my anus. I mean, I'm no great lover of Enterprise, but it's still a quantum step up from Voyager.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:48 pm

Well, I'm hoping that Enterprise is finally getting it's act together, since so far, this season has been more interesting than last year's. Man, did they ever lose their direction!

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:51 pm

You guys talk about Star Trek too much. It reminds me of this extremely skinny kid named Dan, except I don't think you guys are handicapped.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:54 pm

The only handicap I have is being too sexy for my own good.

IT IS TRUE!

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:59 pm

That's not a handicap! You can't complain about that! And we don't talk about Star Trek too much, this is first thread where we've had a continual discussion of it.

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:11 pm

Okay, okay. What if I just said that you relate everything to Star Trek, and that really gets on my nerves.

Okay, true story. Yesterday in Science class the paper in front of me related some question about travelling between planets at a certain speed or whatever to Star Trek, so I totally flipped out and killed everybody. Did I mention this was a true story?

Okay, okay, I made up the killing people parts. But I DID daydream for a couple minutes about killing everybody. So, yeah. Don't bring up Star Trek. Learn from Dan's mistakes (and punishments). Well, that's another story...

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:16 pm

Well I agree with you there that relating a science test question to time travel in Star Trek is a bit dumb. It should relate to how time travel might work in real life. Geez, how the heck would knowing about time travel in Star Trek benefit science in real life?! I assume your science teacher must be a Trekkie, in which case you must kill him/her now to contain the evil of the Trekkie from spreading.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:24 pm

Now, to be fair, I only bought up Star Trek in the "Time Travel" thread because I was looking at how other shows deal with time travel, and Star Trek has a lot of it, has been seen by a fair few people, and seemed a good point of reference. DBZ seems to be more closely related to Buffy's alternative dimenions if anything...

But, er, yeah. I like Enterprise, it's getting better. Voyager was awful. DS9 was great. I hate the majority of online Star Trek fans. Case closed.

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:25 pm

Look, it's a thin lady older than the sun that puts the words "in essence" into every other sentence. I really don't think she's a treckie (okay, the in essence stuff had nothing to do with anything, but it's still pretty interesting).

Besides, I know she didn't write it. I'm still trying to track down the one responsible.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:34 pm

Psy: DS9 was a great series, but the ending sucked.

Zacko: You must find them as fast as you can at all costs! They must be destroyed!

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:36 pm

Yeah, about that... it was going pretty well, but then I just hit a dead end. I think somebody else beat me to it. Have any of you guys killed any Trekkie scientists before?

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:38 pm

Mmmm, not that I can think of. I think I once accidently stepped on and killed and ant that looked as if it was wearing a tiny Star Trek uniform, but no, no Trekkie scientists.

Kanzenshuu

"Factoids" Section... Any Ideas?

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