DragonBall Z Abridged

[FoolsGil]

Plague of Gripes: Thoughts on Dragonball Abridged
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WTdFu1geko

[Scsigs]

Goku didn’t “learn a lesson” in my eyes. He just said “yeah all of these guys were coming after me, so if I stay dead then they’ll stop.” That’s it.

And yeah, Goku said he maybe could have beaten Fat Buu, but we really don’t know for 100% sure because he’s making an assumption. Was Buu going all out against him during that fight? We don’t really know, but we know Goku wasn’t either. We’ve seen Buu have insane regeneration hax so even someone stronger than him could’ve had a hard time destroying him.

The dialogue of Goku telling his friends that he's staying dead so more evil people don't try to destroy the Earth & kill everyone on it was intended to be the culmination of an arc Goku was on. Don't get me wrong, it falls completely flat because Toriyama tried to make everything in the series Goku's fault when literally only the last 4 arcs' worth of villains for the series had anything to do with him, but that was clearly the intent by Toriyama. It goes with the themes of Goku leaving everything up to the next generation. I'm just trying to meet the arc with its own standards.

I believe he said he definitely could, not just "maybe." Yes, he wasn't going all-out, but that was the point. He fought Buu to create a diversion so Trunks could fly to Capsule Corps to get the Dragon Radar so they could later find the Dragon Balls when they came back after they defeat Buu so they can revive those killed by him. In the moment while they're fighting, we don't know if Goku can beat Buu, even in SS3 & it's assumed Goku couldn't, which is why we're fine with him not beating Buu there & then teaching Goten & Trunks in the ways of Fusion, as Gotenks is hyped up as having the power to beat Buu. Gotenks' problem ultimately being that he's a stupid, cocky brat who can't think to take things seriously. However, Goku. stating he could've taken Fat Buu out in SS3 later on isn't the tension-builder Torriyama. intended, but an example the ultimate problems with the arc; mood whiplash, forced along plot points, inconsistency in characterization, & the pacing of the arc being all over the place. But that's a discussion for another time.

Spoiler:

Goku didn’t “learn a lesson” in my eyes. He just said “yeah all of these guys were coming after me, so if I stay dead then they’ll stop.” That’s it.

And yeah, Goku said he maybe could have beaten Fat Buu, but we really don’t know for 100% sure because he’s making an assumption. Was Buu going all out against him during that fight? We don’t really know, but we know Goku wasn’t either. We’ve seen Buu have insane regeneration hax so even someone stronger than him could’ve had a hard time destroying him.

Spoiler:

Goku was honestly being a cocky dumbass when he said he could defeat fat Buu.

While the way the fight plays makes it clear that both Goku and Buu are just fucking around, Goku clearly got tired just after a few seconds of fighting him, while Buu could keep going.

Futhermore, when Goku was fighting kid Buu, he was seriously surprised over how long Buu can keep fighting without getting tired, which's stupid considering that by that point he saw super Buu fighting Gotenks, Gohan, and he technically fought super Buu as Vegetto too...

So yeah, Goku can usually be alright at measuring up his opponents' power (Back in Cell saga he quickly started to believe he couldn't beat Cell after just looking at him), but that comment from later in the Buu saga makes him look like a dumbass who somehow didn't notice just how much it's impossible to tire out Buu.

The best way I can think Goku could defeat Buu is if he just decided to go SS3 right away and throw the most powerful Kamehameha at him, something Goku never does since he likes to delay fights even when he should end them fast, so I don't see Goku defeating Buu at all.

Also if you think of Goku's actions with the many retcons around it, Goku is uncharacteristically a liar, since he talks like he'll overwhelm Vegeta with SS2 to end it quick, and even looks surprised and annoyed when Vegeta turns out to have SS2 as well, then he talks like he couldn't do anything about Buu, then right after reveals SS3, but later says he wasn't sure he could beat Buu even with SS3, then after the whole Vegetto nonsense is over, he suddenly starts saying he could've beaten fat Buu... It's just so bad and it makes him look like a jackass.

I agree & it's all the result of bad writing on Toriyama's part. It's known at this point that Toriyama wrote basically week to week. While he more than likely came up with some things as he went before he wrote parts of the arcs, he mainly wrote them as he went along. While he. was pretty good at doing it & could think on his feet, the Buu Saga is rife with bad plotting & storytelling after a while Goku's characterization suffers greatly from this, as there are serious holes you can easily poke in his logic & some of the things he does.
Says he's going all out for his fight with Vegeta...then later unveils SS3 out of nowhere when fighting Buu with no build-up or foreshadowing. The obvious reason being that Toriyama didn't plan that far ahead, but it makes Goku look stupid in hindsight & Vegeta even chastises him for it.
Says he can't beat Buu & then teaches Goten & Trunks the Fusion Dance to give them the power to do it instead. Then...later says he could've done it when he fought Fat Buu because Toriyama wanted to wring a bit more drama out of the moment. Makes him look like a dumbass.

Now, had Toriyama not written these moments the way he did, it would've been better. Don't have the line about how Goku could've beaten Buu & don't have him fight in SS3. Have Dende heal Goku to full power & have Goku fight as a full power SS2 & more strategically as he distracts Buu & Babidi, knowing he can't win, but that's not his goal. Also, have Goku just teleport Trunks to Capsule Corps so he can look for the Radar. That always bothers me when it comes to the logic of things. Goku can teleport people places. Just have him do that for Trunks! It's so dumb. It unnecessarily wastes time & energy. And have Gotenks unlock SS3, showing he really has more power &/or potential than Goku. Justify his existence more than just being basically a power-up that goes nowhere.

Also, I'm rewatching the first part of Totally Not Mark's retrospective on the Buu Saga. When did Goten ever pronounce it "Keme-kame-ha" instead of "Kame-hame-ha"? Was that in the English dub? I know Lani's mentioned that Goten did that, but when? I don't remember it.

[Dbzk1999]

Also, I'm rewatching the first part of Totally Not Mark's retrospective on the Buu Saga. When did Goten ever pronounce it "Keme-kame-ha" instead of "Kame-hame-ha"? Was that in the English dub? I know Lani's mentioned that Goten did that, but when? I don't remember it.

He explicitly pronounced it like that during his match at the 25th budokai with Trunks. Trunks even makes fun of him for it before Goten fires it and almost hits the crowd due to lacking control of it.

[Scsigs]

Also, I'm rewatching the first part of Totally Not Mark's retrospective on the Buu Saga. When did Goten ever pronounce it "Keme-kame-ha" instead of "Kame-hame-ha"? Was that in the English dub? I know Lani's mentioned that Goten did that, but when? I don't remember it.

He explicitly pronounced it like that during his match at the 25th budokai with Trunks. Trunks even makes fun of him for it before Goten fires it and almost hits the crowd due to lacking control of it.

I meant where in the original series, not Abridged.

[Lukmendes]

The dialogue of Goku telling his friends that he's staying dead so more evil people don't try to destroy the Earth & kill everyone on it was intended to be the culmination of an arc Goku was on. Don't get me wrong, it falls completely flat because Toriyama tried to make everything in the series Goku's fault when literally only the last 4 arcs' worth of villains for the series had anything to do with him, but that was clearly the intent by Toriyama. It goes with the themes of Goku leaving everything up to the next generation. I'm just trying to meet the arc with its own standards.

There's two problems with Toriyama's logic, first and most important, Trunks' future shows exactly the kind of future that awaits if Goku isn't around to solve the problems, because the androids were gonna kill everyone regardless, so trying to say "Everything is Goku's fault" is a really dumb case of victim blaming, and completely ignores what the arc itself showed.

Second, Goku had to learn the hard way that Gohan doesn't want to fight and would rather be a scholar, so he's basically forcing Gohan to be a warrior to protect everyone in case something bad happens... Even though he just learned Gohan doesn't want to be a warrior.

I agree & it's all the result of bad writing on Toriyama's part. It's known at this point that Toriyama wrote basically week to week. While he more than likely came up with some things as he went before he wrote parts of the arcs, he mainly wrote them as he went along. While he. was pretty good at doing it & could think on his feet, the Buu Saga is rife with bad plotting & storytelling after a while Goku's characterization suffers greatly from this, as there are serious holes you can easily poke in his logic & some of the things he does.
Says he's going all out for his fight with Vegeta...then later unveils SS3 out of nowhere when fighting Buu with no build-up or foreshadowing. The obvious reason being that Toriyama didn't plan that far ahead, but it makes Goku look stupid in hindsight & Vegeta even chastises him for it.

Goku even says he was saving SS3 in case things got really bad but, Vegeta getting controlled by Babidi was one of the worst possible outcomes...

Says he can't beat Buu & then teaches Goten & Trunks the Fusion Dance to give them the power to do it instead. Then...later says he could've done it when he fought Fat Buu because Toriyama wanted to wring a bit more drama out of the moment. Makes him look like a dumbass.

And the simple fix for this would be something like "I could maybe beat him, but Super Saiyan 3 uses too much energy and the fusion dance was a better alternative".

Or just not make the comment at all lol.

Also, have Goku just teleport Trunks to Capsule Corps so he can look for the Radar. That always bothers me when it comes to the logic of things. Goku can teleport people places. Just have him do that for Trunks! It's so dumb.

Somehow I never realized that lol.

I meant where in the original series, not Abridged.

That was in the original series. If Abridged had the same situation then it just means they repeated the joke.

[Dbzk1999]

Also, I'm rewatching the first part of Totally Not Mark's retrospective on the Buu Saga. When did Goten ever pronounce it "Keme-kame-ha" instead of "Kame-hame-ha"? Was that in the English dub? I know Lani's mentioned that Goten did that, but when? I don't remember it.

He explicitly pronounced it like that during his match at the 25th budokai with Trunks. Trunks even makes fun of him for it before Goten fires it and almost hits the crowd due to lacking control of it.

I meant where in the original series, not Abridged.

I, literally am talking about the original series…

[Vegard Aune]

Also, I'm rewatching the first part of Totally Not Mark's retrospective on the Buu Saga. When did Goten ever pronounce it "Keme-kame-ha" instead of "Kame-hame-ha"? Was that in the English dub? I know Lani's mentioned that Goten did that, but when? I don't remember it.

He explicitly pronounced it like that during his match at the 25th budokai with Trunks. Trunks even makes fun of him for it before Goten fires it and almost hits the crowd due to lacking control of it.

I meant where in the original series, not Abridged.

Volume 37, chapter 434. (aka first chapter of the second volume of the Boo arc. Dunno what the exact numbers would be in the Viz manga with their splitting the manga in two to match the anime.)

[Fizzer]

I just got done watching the finale commentary.

Your show means so much to me, as much as Dragon Ball itself which has been a huge part of my life.

I watched the first episodes of DBZA in secondary school, laughing at the dumb jokes with my friends. I watched the last episodes with my wife, crying at the beauty of your creation. Through years, addictions, times I thought I was done living, you were there.

I've never met any of you, but I love all of you, and I can't express that enough.

[Scsigs]

Dragonball Z Abridged Creator Commentary | Episode 60 (Epilogue)
https://youtu.be/6jCUJzN9gRk?si=-pMwiqhPI7btGc7B

[Scsigs]

Dragonball Z Abridged Creator Commentary | Kai 2.9
https://youtu.be/4KRet0qZ2JI?si=MJ_kw0VBB1oAr94X

Yu Yu Hakusho Abridged Movie Commentary | Episode 16
https://youtu.be/BxGam3L4gEk?si=AsekvZ7PH_gPSMft

[FoolsGil]

Dragonball Z Abridged Creator Commentary | Kai 2.9
https://youtu.be/4KRet0qZ2JI?si=MJ_kw0VBB1oAr94X

I think my favorite thing about Kai 2.9 is what they admitted: That this was them putting in what they believed as funny. Almost everything was on the table. It reminded me back of the peak abridging scene. and the best part was with this completely unfettered episode, they had the technical know-how to back up the jokes, and the years of script writing to bring those jokes to the next level.

[Scsigs]

I think my favorite thing about Kai 2.9 is what they admitted: That this was them putting in what they believed as funny. Almost everything was on the table. It reminded me back of the peak abridging scene. and the best part was with this completely unfettered episode, they had the technical know-how to back up the jokes, and the years of script writing to bring those jokes to the next level.

This is partly why I'm sad they didn't do season 4. If the humor was just gonna be more like 2.9, I would've loved that.

[Scsigs]

Dragonball Z Abridged Creator Commentary | Kai 3 & 3.5
https://youtu.be/1YZ2VWORQe0?si=dbrpvcRwdtk7jQuu

I never noticed that was Eric Vale yelling, "You need to be stopped!" before.

[Scsigs]

Dragonball Z Abridged Creator Commentary | Plan to Eradicate Christmas
https://youtu.be/tv-bamDDUQw?si=yb07KgPPSOHmihum

Yu Yu Hakusho Abridged Movie Commentary | Episode 1 Remastered
https://youtu.be/R5jQRYgzXHE?si=UC6F0xnju52jklSS

And so, DBZA creator commentaries proper come to a close (unless Taka also does one on his stream) with this, which they did out of order, so Taka's unfortunately not in on it.

[FoolsGil]

Dragonball Z Abridged Creator Commentary | Plan to Eradicate Christmas
https://youtu.be/tv-bamDDUQw?si=yb07KgPPSOHmihum

Yu Yu Hakusho Abridged Movie Commentary | Episode 1 Remastered
https://youtu.be/R5jQRYgzXHE?si=UC6F0xnju52jklSS

And so, DBZA creator commentaries proper come to a close (unless Taka also does one on his stream) with this, which they did out of order, so Taka's unfortunately not in on it.

One of the big questions when this special came out was if this was the same Santa who helped Goku during Christmas Tree of Might. Since apparently Lani was interested in getting Chris Hebert back, I think we can all say yep that is the case. Perhaps Santa was barely clinging on to his jolly old self during the Christmas Tree of Might, and our heroes not always being heroes was truly the last straw. Kind of sad in a way that there was no way of redemption for Santa, who we've seen at both his good and evil side in the Abridged Movie Canon.

Also oh man Yo Son Goku Abridged could have been a thing. There is nowhere near enough screentime with Vegeta and Tarble in the special, would have relished Kaiser making a sub plot about them, if you aren't an only child, you know exactly what kind of talks the Vegetable Bros would have had.

[Scsigs]

One of the big questions when this special came out was if this was the same Santa who helped Goku during Christmas Tree of Might. Since apparently Lani was interested in getting Chris Hebert back, I think we can all say yep that is the case. Perhaps Santa was barely clinging on to his jolly old self during the Christmas Tree of Might, and our heroes not always being heroes was truly the last straw. Kind of sad in a way that there was no way of redemption for Santa, who we've seen at both his good and evil side in the Abridged Movie Canon.

Kyle Hebert, not Chris. And, I don't think so personally. While the movies & specials aren't canon to the DBZA series, I don't even think this special is canon to those movies, putting it in its own fringe canon. I'd rather think that than think the Santa in this special wasn't evil all along, but with how they used a piano version of Weird Al's 'The Night Santa Went Crazy,' I think you could easily see it as just the plot of the story in that song.

[Scsigs]

I've posted a link to it before, but if anyone here likes Ben 10 or Danny Phantom. (or even Invader Zim), Kaiser is currently voicing Danny in the motion comic adaptation of Kuro the Artist's fan comic, 5 Years Later. He was a last-minute replacement for someone else, but does a good job channeling David Kaufman's performance from the show.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... p1rJ5IcqfQ

[FoolsGil]

DragonShortZ Episode 6: Three's A Crowd
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdaREuK9WJQ

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Quite liked this episode!

Krillin and Lazuli truly are the perfect couple in the series, both abridged AND canon.

[Noah]

This hits differently now...