Super Saiyans (Saiya-Jins).....

[Cartman Blues]

Hi. I've been thinking about this and want to see what ya'll think. I want to know.... what do you consider the TRUE Super Saiyan of legends? Before you answer, here are the different...."subjects" and explanations for them.

1.) The gold/yellow haired, green eyed one that everybody loves- I feel that this one is debatable, considering the fact that the Super Saiyan is supposed to be legendary. There wouldn't be 3 levels (4 ...But we'll get to that later ) (Plus the powered up, Ultra Super Saiyans.) if it was THAT great and wonderful. Another thing to think about is that 8 year olds (Goten and Trunks) could reach this state and beyond that. I know that Toryama did this just to show that there were much more powerful levels to reach and more powerful powerups than Super Saiyan. For these reasons, I consider these Super Saiyan levels simply "Powered up states." SSJ 1 is just a powerup triggered by anger, with the other levels being...powerups of a powerup. This wouldn't be so debatable if Toryama ended Dragon Ball Z after Namek exploding. But then again...there still would be the...

2.) Golden Oozaru- That's right. I'm putting this one in here NOT just because it's been said that GT proved that this is the real Super Saiyan. I put this one in this discussion because if you remember, after Goku defeats Recoome, Vegeta has one of those "Inner rants" about Goku being a Super Saiyan and talking about the 10,000 year thing..yada yada yada. Anyway, the flashback shows a huge creature with glowing red eyes. And that isn't a plain Oozaru, because then Raditz would be a "Super Saiyan" so says Sparking Meteor.

3.) Super Saiyan 4- ZOMG THIZ IZ FRUM GT THIS IS STUPIDZ BANBANBAN! Yes, I understand this is also from GT, and that Toryama doesn't consider it canon. But this is just YOUR opinion. I put this in here because it exhibits what the Ultimate Saiyan would look like. (Hence Super Saiyan) It's a fusion between the normal state and the Oozaru states. The hair stays the same color (2/3 of the time) but it becomes longer, more messy and monkeyish and the Saiyan becomes...furry..I guess. The eyes are rimmed red refering to the Oozaru's red eyes. So..yea.

4.)Broly's Legendary Super Saiyan state- ...Well he is the "Legendary Super Saiyan" of the prophecies. And he's...different from a normal Super Saiyan, but then again...this could still be a powered up state.

Whew...that was long, I know. I just wanna know everybody's opinions on this. I realize that there most likely have been similar threads like this. It's just for fun, though. And if you think I missed a type of Super Saiyan that you think is the true one, please tell me. Thanks for reading and please comment! (Also please tell me if I made any spelling or grammatical errors. )

[Kendamu]

I consider the original Super Saiyan form as first achieved by Son Goku to be the "real" legendary Super Saiyan. The reason why it was so hard to achieve before Son Goku was because:

1) The original Super Saiyan transformed, kicked the shit out of a bunch of people/stuff, and then died. Nobody ever learned the secret behind it and it went down in history as a legend.

2) Goku survived, brought the secrets of the Super Saiyan back to Earth, and pretty much shared the concept with the other Saiyans. With it no longer being a secret and with the only surviving Saiyans being really, really strong ones everyone was able to get it.

3) All the forms of Super Saiyan achieved in the Android/Cell arcs that weren't "Mastered" Super Saiyan (what Goku and Gohan got post-RoSaT) were all considered to be "Beyond the Super Saiyan." This includes SSj2. So, obviously, everything beyond SSj2 is also "Beyond the Super Saiyan."

[SSJ2bardock]

(Also please tell me if I made any spelling or grammatical errors. )

The great author/illustrator of the Dragonball universe is Mr Toriyama not Toryama. Just a friendly reminder

[Velasa]

Reguardless of what GT says, I've always thought of the golden oozaru as the original legendary form. SSJ itself was aquired by too many people, later ssj forms aren't as cool, and golden oozaru always just seemed more... I don't know, special. No real serious reasoning behind it.

[Xyex]

Vegeta has one of those "Inner rants" about Goku being a Super Saiyan and talking about the 10,000 year thing..yada yada yada. Anyway, the flashback shows a huge creature with glowing red eyes. And that isn't a plain Oozaru, because then Raditz would be a "Super Saiyan" so says Sparking Meteor.

1,000, not 10,000.

That aside, no. Vegeta was not picturing nor alluding to anything resembling a 'golden Oozaru' with that. It was just a regular, every day Oozaru, nothing more. The only reason that Vegeta pictured the Oozaru was because of his dialogue. The "he could only maintain that level while in the transformed state" bit. Because, until Goku goes all golden later on, the only transformation Vegeta knows about is the Oozaru.

Until Vegeta see's the transformation he doesn't know jack shit about what a Super Saiya-jin actuall is. Hence his multiple declarations that either he or Goku are Super Saiya-jins despite the lack of a transformation. That little (anime only) scene of him picturing the Oozaru is just him being clueless, nothing more.

The original SSJ seen on Namek is the "true" Super Saiya-jin of legend. The forms beyond it were beyond legendary because the only Saiya-jin to ever transform before got his ass killed shortly there-after and so they were never learned of until Gohan, and then Goku, reached them.

[Salagir2]

I think it's clear Goku was the legendary Super Saiyen.

Then the story continued, which wasn't really Tori's initial scenario but well. And other SSJ came.

Now all the others kids are doing it, being SSJ isn't that cool any more.

Broly was then entitled as "the real legendary".

[SSJ2bardock]

Now all the others kids are doing it.

Super Saiya-jin, it's all the rage in Japan.

[Kaboom]

Okay then...

What I think it to be: Super Saiyan 4. The be-all, end-all. A combination of the brutal, animalistic side of a Saiyan's power (Ozaru) and the more rational, contained side )SSj 1,2,3, etc) Unique in the methods used to achieve it, and granting ishloads of power because of it. Arguably only available to pure-blooded Saiyans, and requiring complete mastery over one's power and mind. In short, it's a Saiyan's ultimate form, and it kicks ass.

What it SHOULD have been: Super Saiyan 1. We've all heard or said it; Goku's transformation and the subsequent ass-kicking of Freeza it brought was meant to the finale of the series, and the realization of the whole thing.

[mrkaizoku]

Son Goku was/is the legendary Super Saiyan. Period. It was made obvious during the series. I'm betting that there are people out there that still think it was/is Brolly.

[Casual Matt]

I'm betting that there are people out there that still think it was/is Brolly.

Probably due to the fact that Broli was repeatedly stated to be the Super Saiyan of Legend. So you can't really harp too much on people that say Broli is the Legendary Super Saiyan.

Of course, Movie 8 isn't canon to the anime or the manga, so it kind of breaks down in either context.

[JulieYBM]

In the bottled city of Kandor thousands of Saiyan's live on, when Son Gokû discovers them he shares the way of the Super Saiyan with them and...


...uh-oh, fan fiction material alert.

I think I agree mostly with what everybody is saying here. Where the first joe to become a SSj was really only able to handle the power as a 'Golden Giant Ape' or not may or may not be true but might explain that they form would first need to be reached from the base (smaller body) state and then triggered while as a Great Ape (which would explain why Son and Vegeta didn't keel over) but that may just be complicating things.

Speaking of SSj, when Cell began having a gold aura could we insinuate he was a SSj too? Considering his Saiyan blood and all.

[Cartman Blues]

Vegeta has one of those "Inner rants" about Goku being a Super Saiyan and talking about the 10,000 year thing..yada yada yada. Anyway, the flashback shows a huge creature with glowing red eyes. And that isn't a plain Oozaru, because then Raditz would be a "Super Saiyan" so says Sparking Meteor.

1,000, not 10,000.

That aside, no. Vegeta was not picturing nor alluding to anything resembling a 'golden Oozaru' with that. It was just a regular, every day Oozaru, nothing more. The only reason that Vegeta pictured the Oozaru was because of his dialogue. The "he could only maintain that level while in the transformed state" bit. Because, until Goku goes all golden later on, the only transformation Vegeta knows about is the Oozaru.

Until Vegeta see's the transformation he doesn't know jack shit about what a Super Saiya-jin actuall is. Hence his multiple declarations that either he or Goku are Super Saiya-jins despite the lack of a transformation. That little (anime only) scene of him picturing the Oozaru is just him being clueless, nothing more.

The original SSJ seen on Namek is the "true" Super Saiya-jin of legend. The forms beyond it were beyond legendary because the only Saiya-jin to ever transform before got his ass killed shortly there-after and so they were never learned of until Gohan, and then Goku, reached them.

Wow I never knew that! Thanks for the info! And I agree that Goku should've been the True Super Saiyan, but then they continued the series. The Super Saiyan legend probably would've died with Goku. But I also agree with SSJ Kaboom that SS4 is the end all True Super Saiyan. (If you follow GT) Also I just though about something, what if SS3 actually just matures and like you thus making you stronger? The hair grows, the voice deepens, the face just looks more mature. I'm going with Kendamu that Ultra SSJ-SSJ 3 are just upgraded versions of Super Saiyan. Hell I agree with all of you! I guess this, just like other things in the series, are just based off what fans think. I sure would love to hear what Mr. VegettoEX has to say, though. (Sorry about the 10,000/1,000 thing. I haven't watched much DBZ in a while. )

[SSj_Rambo]

I kind of see it as Super Saiya-jin was a legendary state that was only known through stories, and so, anyone who achieved this level was a legend themselves, making Goku and the others Legendary Super Saiya-jins.

I believe that the Legendary Super Saiya-jin was supposed to be a Saiya-jin who achieved SSj but was much stronger than anyone who had achieved it before.

I think that the reason that "Legendary Super Saiya-jin" was never mentioned in the series after the Freeza Saga was because Vegeta assumed that only one Saiya-jin could achieve the legendary state every thousand years...and with Goku alive after the Freeza Saga Vegeta choose to stop believing the legend for he interpreted it as saying that he could not achieve SSj since Goku had.