What dose 'canon' mean to you?

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:32 am

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:
Dayspring wrote:Now, I have no problem with someone claiming he went back in time off-camera upon defeating Cell, but not to the events of movie 9.
This is what I don't understand. When is it said that he didn't defeat Cell before coming back in the movie?

No reference of Cell is made at all. She either mentions "Trunks said that he beat up 2 androids in the future..." That, coupled with the glaring age discrepency, leads me to believe that movie 9 Trunks returned either immediately after defeating his androids, or that he recharged his time machine immediately (8 months, I think it takes?) and then went back.

The top left is what Trunks looks like 3 years later. This isn't a very good pic to show the difference (read the last chapter of book 35 for more), but already you can see a significant change in facial appearance to that of movie 9 Trunks, who looks similar to bottom left Trunks (bottom left Trunks is 18-year-old chibi, but you get my point).

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:55 am

Dayspring wrote:No reference of Cell is made at all.

That doesn't mean he never defeated Cell. It just means it wasn't wrote into the script; it was irrelevant. Hell, maybe he never felt the need to mention Cell to them. I mean, his mission in life was to kill #17 and #18. So it's likely that he just told everyone "I finally killed the androids." And the alternate Trunks theory doesn't make sense for too many reasons. I'll explain if you'd really like me to.

As for the "grown up Trunks," well... it's noticeable, but barely. I certainly didn't notice until you pointed it out.

Trunks, against #17 and #18, and then Trunks, 3 years older:

Did anybody at Toei notice, or even care enough to slightly alter his face (when they could instead draw him as usual)? Hell, even Toriyama's designs for Super Saiyan Trunks are inconsistent. Look at how he looks when he first appears versus how he appears in those last couple chapters he's in. Shit happens.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:18 pm

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. I see a total redesign of his face that implies age in both pics. Even if you argue they didn't notice the minor changes to his face, then and only then do we have to bring up the hair argument.

I think my "multiple nitpicks" are fair comments since I'm not disputing its ability to take place in the anime, just that Movie 9 Trunks isn't the one from timeline 2 (the regular future Trunks).

Like I mentioned earlier, we've gone apeshit for less (ie: "movie 5 can't take place because Gohan has the wrong style of hair"), so I don't think all my evidence is that irrealistic. I think TOEI did this intentionally since teenage Trunks is uber-popular hearthrob Trunks. If not for that narrator's comment in the series, it would actually make more sense if Trunks did make two trips. But he doesn't, and it's there's way too much that implies that movie 9 Trunks did, for my tastes.

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:29 pm

Is Trunks' appearance really that big of a deal?

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:40 pm

Dayspring wrote:Like I mentioned earlier, we've gone apeshit for less (ie: "movie 5 can't take place because Gohan has the wrong style of hair"), so I don't think all my evidence is that irrealistic.

Which I've also called a nitpick based on simple art inconsistency. Toei's fucked up worse than jawlines and haircuts.

SSJmole · Post by **SSJmole** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:59 pm

My Canon is ....

Manga universe
The Manga

Anime Universe
Bardock: The Father of Goku
The Anime
The History of Trunks
DragonBall GT
A Hero's Legacy

That's it. I don't count movie 1 as it doesn't fit even with Garlic Jr. Saga. So I think the events of the movie happened (at least what is shown) but it must have been a diffrent time. So most likely That universe's

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:11 pm

SSJmole wrote: That's it. I don't count movie 1 as it doesn't fit even with Garlic Jr. Saga.

How so?

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:23 am

Onikage725 wrote:
SSJmole wrote: That's it. I don't count movie 1 as it doesn't fit even with Garlic Jr. Saga.
How so?

There is nothing solely in the Garlic Jr. Saga that says that DBZ movie 1 is not part of that continuity. There is however a lot of evidence in the Saiya-jin Arc that disproves DBZ movie one from fitting into the anime universe, and since he said that he considers all of the anime as one continuity he must have used the reasons presented in the Saiya-jin Arc as his reasons for DBZ movie 1 not fitting into the Garlic Jr. Saga.

I just have one question SSJmole, what do you believe is canonical to the anime universe when the anime contradicts itself?

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:01 am

It's ridiculous to say that the first movie never happened in the anime's continuity. The entire Garlic Jr. arc existing depends on the movie.

Do we say that the Red Ribbon arc of the manga never happened because the Dragon Balls were mistakenly (on Toriyama's part) re-activated 8 months after their first use (as opposed to 12 months)? Personally, I think the entire idea of fans choosing a "personal canon" is silly. It reminds me of those people who pretend that an anime's movie sequel (say, the Fullmetal Alchemist movie, or The End of Evangelion) doesn't exist because something in it irked them.

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:48 am

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:It's ridiculous to say that the first movie never happened in the anime's continuity. The entire Garlic Jr. arc existing depends on the movie.

And that's why the anime's continuity is a mess.

Kanzenshuu

What dose 'canon' mean to you?

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