Lately, however, we've come to a little bit of a crossroads. There has been (valid) concern over toxicity even within our own community, and while in the past we were able to walk it off due to the shorter, one-and-done productions, Super changes that dynamic. It's constant, it's going strong, it's not looking to end any time soon, and that means everything ramps up to 11 on that dial.
Most recently, we tried something new: we temporarily locked a Dragon Ball Super episode discussion thread due to a variety of... well, let's be blunt, behavioral problems. This has been an on-going issue with the threads for some time, and wasn't something we as an administrative and moderation team had been able to handle properly. The "new" part of the lock technique was an extensive, documented list of what we as a team would consider inappropriate post content going by the spirit of our community guidelines. It's an extension of something we have done in the past, taken to a(n) (extreme) new level: making an example out of someone.
It seems that some folks want a little more transparency, so let's talk about it a little bit.
First thing's first: this probably comes off as "Mike's just being super defensive and trying to cover his ass" but in all honesty? These kinds of larger reactions don't happen in a vacuum. None of us as admins/mods come across stuff and immediately make rash reactions about how to handle it. There's a heads-up and at least some kind of conversation about it. In this particular case, I took the bullet because quite frankly it's going to be noticed more than if Ajay did it. We needed that here. The only next level of severity beyond me is probably if Jake if all people had to step in and do it.
Contrary to what some people think, we do actually value your input and want to hear your opinions. You challenging us makes us better mods and better people. Here's a smattering of the responses that came in following the thread's re-opening:
dblack wrote:I'd just like to say locking this thread and bashing all the commenters was the lamest thing I've seen a site do in a while. Even bashed the dude for having poor grammar.
Correct way to handle this is DM's, warnings, and bans for repeat offenders. Instead we got scolded by some dude who gets e-hard by throwing his Internet power around. Wanted everyone to read his "clever" comments so he locked it. Embarrassing really.
*shrugs* You're welcome to delete this or ban me or whatever I'm sure it's not the first or last time it will be pointed out that VegettoEX guy is a tool.
Gafonso6 wrote:I have to say that what VegettoEX did is probably the best thing he could've done. This thread is always filled with misinformation before the Herms summary or before the subs, so it's for the best that it remains locked. As for the temporary lock this thread got it was also a good idea since a lot of people probably wouldn't have seen it otherwise.
And then just for good measure from the "toxicity" thread because they're relevant (and no, not just because they're in agreement with us!):z_cherub wrote:This site and it's mods do a lot of great work. Handling conflict and disagreement like adults is not among that great work. VegettoEX is repeatedly baited into/resorts to public retorts, "discipline" and comments as opposed to PMs/discreet moderation. None of that is in good taste and it's been brought to his attention multiple times.
That said, in the interest of being fair, he and the other mods do a ton of great work in a lot of areas on this site to make it perhaps the best of its kind.
The mods, VegettoEX in particular, seem to have little interest in adjusting their moderation style to be more discreet, efficient and in better taste, so it's up to us whether we want to put up with that to enjoy the great things that this place does, or if it's too much & we'd prefer to move on to another community. That's an individual decision for everyone.
Cipher wrote:I think the decision to keep those episodes locked until summaries or subtitles are out is for the best. Nothing occurs beforehand except a race to post tweet-like reactions based on a half-understanding of the episode, or an equally tweet-like race to inform those reactions with bits of translated dialogue or information from viewers who can understand some Japanese. I was guilty of participating in that this week. Nothing genuinely worth reading is going to be posted until after the episode has aired in full and is available with subtitles, at which point the urge to rush in with non-holistic reactions has, hopefully, mostly subsided. Much better for everyone's sanity.
The first take-away is: well, you're not going to win every battle. That's the (pretty cool) thing about bringing such an enormous number of people together. We don't agree on everything! See again: challenging us on things. Keep doing it. Well, ya' know, within reason. We're still gonna have the "fuck that fagettoex" crowd even if we take it back to Psaros-board-era community management social experimentation. That's OK. I saw it 20 years ago (when it was more than warranted), and I'll see it in another 20 years (when it's hopefully less warranted). (Also holy shit what am I still doing in 20 years.)Metalwario64 wrote:One thing I've noticed is that most of those posts that were "unacceptable" by VegettoEX were from users I was completely unfamiliar with.
It seems that the influx of new material has brought in tons of new fans, or fans from other communities, and they're trying to post here as they would elsewhere, despite the rules clearly stating how things are run here.
Thankfully, we have an awesome mod team that keeps things clean and orderly.
That point about unfamiliar faces is very interesting to me, and leads back to that point/technique: making an example.
We do this very rarely, and for good measure: it's in poor taste, we recognize it's in poor taste, but it makes an impact when it's used (so long as it's not OVERused). One of the only other times I can think of when we've had to do this was the random instance of gay-bashers coming out of the woodwork. Silent moderation for nonsense like single-word posts and such is great, and issuing warnings is great, but that doesn't always get to and address the root of the problem. Sometimes you need to actually get out there and say, "Hey. This? This shit right here? This is. Not. OK." When the problem reaches critical mass, you can do all the individual warnings and bans you want, but unless the larger crowd knows "shit ain't cool", we're just making more work for ourselves and we're giving the impression that it's OK to continue.
Look, we know Kanzenshuu is different. We're a tad bit arrogant about it. We want the best conversations from the best people. That's not always what people want out of a community. Sometimes they just want to vent and act out. That's cool. Just don't do it here. That's a fair point about "maybe they don't want us" / "maybe this isn't the place for us". We absolutely want you to love this place, but we also recognize we can't be everything to everyone, and we might have to agree to disagree on some things.
But keep challenging us. We might disagree with you (as we clearly do with some of the responses here), but that's cool. We do actually care. Haters gonna hate, but sometimes the haters got a point. Other times they don't. Most of the time they don't. More than most of the time they don't. Here? They don't. But that's also cool.
So I dunno, man. Here's a giant post. I guess Toriyama said a thing once.
(Also, we're going to be more vigilant in the episode discussion threads.)