What would a reboot have to do in order to comply to today's standards?

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Re: What would a reboot have to do in order to comply to today's standards?

Post by GreatSaiyaJeff » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:29 pm

The main difference between Toriyama's Roshi compared to modern day's Roshi. Roshi in the original series, while perverted, there was always consequences to his actions. Anytime he tried to peep or grope, he was always struck back or that he would fail. Like when he was trying to peep on Bulma, he was flushed down the toilet.

Today's Roshi, at least with Toei's Super, not only did he get away with groping Urine, sure she possessed him but even Goku didn't stop his antics. Also with groping Puar, sure it was training but it felt the joke was played out so far that it was just painful to watch.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that Toei never gave him consequences compared to the original series. At least that's my interpretation.
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Re: What would a reboot have to do in order to comply to today's standards?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:44 pm

The consequences in the original comic were light, though. That doesn't really tackle the issue that his sexual assault was still being played for laughs. At least the Red Ribbon Army soldiers trying to rape Blooma were almost immediately killed.

...also one of them was a racist caricature. Yikes.
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Re: What would a reboot have to do in order to comply to today's standards?

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:47 pm

GreatSaiyaJeff wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:29 pm
The main difference between Toriyama's Roshi compared to modern day's Roshi. Roshi in the original series, while perverted, there was always consequences to his actions. Anytime he tried to peep or grope, he was always struck back or that he would fail. Like when he was trying to peep on Bulma, he was flushed down the toilet.

Today's Roshi, at least with Toei's Super, not only did he get away with groping Urine, sure she possessed him but even Goku didn't stop his antics. Also with groping Puar, sure it was training but it felt the joke was played out so far that it was just painful to watch.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that Toei never gave him consequences compared to the original series. At least that's my interpretation.
What's fucked is just how much further Toei took the Roshi perversion joke and turned it into him being a serial sexual harasser. Like the character of Maron seemed to be created to A) be Krillin's bimbo girlfriend, and B) be Roshi's designated grope victim. It's uncomfortable to say the least. The TFS joke of him being banned from over 200 Victoria's Secret stores is barely even an exaggeration. Toriyama likes some perverted humour but as you say, characters that cross the line always receive comeuppance.

I like the scene in Super: Broly where Cheelai tells a harassing Frieza Force grunt that "no means no". It's pretty impactful that the scene is treated as a serious deal rather than a gag. Almost like him saying 'f-you' to Toei for all the times they've crossed the line by exaggerating the sexual humour.
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Re: What would a reboot have to do in order to comply to today's standards?

Post by GreatSaiyaJeff » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:51 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:44 pm
The consequences in the original comic were light, though. That doesn't really tackle the issue that his sexual assault was still being played for laughs. At least the Red Ribbon Army soldiers trying to rape Blooma were almost immediately killed.

...also one of them was a racist caricature. Yikes.
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Re: What would a reboot have to do in order to comply to today's standards?

Post by Grimlock » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:59 pm

This new Dragon Ball reboot cannot be stuck with the same formula, doing the same shit the old Dragon Ball did. It will have to explore other ideas. Give more character development and screetime to other characters. Tournaments should only be done once in a very while. Have a nice coreography during combats (as if the the fighters were actually dancing).
Jord wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:52 am
  • There should be more diversity in the team of fighters. I would like to see more female or genderless fighters
I agree with all the points, but let me point out this one specifically because is the one I'm most focused on right now. I wasn't one to care too much about diversity, but recently I find myself enjoying a lot more when I see female and black person. Unconsciously I even have been creating female and/or black person in games that allow me to create characters. And so, this is something I would like to see in Dragon Ball. As for female, one of the few good things in modern Dragon Ball is the fact that they actually got some spotlight, we have Kaioshin of Time (genderless, whatever, but female nonetheless), Towa, Android 21, Caulifla, Kale (to some very limited extent, if she wasn't a crap Broly knock-off but rather her own character would be so much more interesting...), on that front, I can't complain much. But as for black person in general, there's only Uub I somewhat can relate myself to. I want more black people and Uub to get more (much more, actually) spotlight.
JulieYBM wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:21 am
[*]Women-creating the series. Toei Animation has access to plenty of female creators, lets see them have even more prominent roles in creating Dragon Ball! Heck, let's see if any non-binary people are also on hand that can be involved more heavily in the creative process. Let's see what kind of work people other than men can make![/list]
There's Ooishi Naho. After Episode of Bardock, I think a "feminine touch" can be very interesting. I actually loved her artstyle, I think I still prefer hers over Toyotaro's art (though he has improved since his days of Dragon Ball Heroes Victory Mission). I think she only needs to improve her writing skills a bit, you can't make Bardock goes back in time without explaining it. Anyway, I agree women should get to create stories and I want more of Ooishi Naho and other women contributing to Dragon Ball!

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Re: What would a reboot have to do in order to comply to today's standards?

Post by pepd » Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:53 pm

About MutenRōshi, I agree on that the main problem are Toei's portrayals, in the manga the jokes are usually about Kamesennin being a pervert and being beaten because of it.

Agree on wanting more females, there is Chichi, 18 and Videl, but 18 is the only serious one, there are a lot of secondary fighters where they could've add women fighters (even Raditts or Nappa), or make Chichi strong enough to help; luckily there is Bra and Pan, but they come really late.

Mr Popo's design seems based on the black face, yes, but I never saw the character as a parody of black people really. I think Mr Popo is a badass. I don't remember the proper name, but there is a representation of black people in Latin-America used in ceramics (called “morenito”, I believe) that is visually similar, but never had a negative connotation. I think it would be enough to add characters that clarifies it, maybe make a few or even one respectable character black, since Uub comes really late to DB. Of course, there may be audiences for whom is inevitably a black people degradation.

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Re: What would a reboot have to do in order to comply to today's standards?

Post by Yuli Ban » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:04 pm

The fuckest thing is: Oob isn't even black. He's so clearly Indian/South Asian. Yet he's the best we got.

Okay, I get it. Kung fu movies were usually fairly Asian across the board, and I don't feel comfortable telling Asians how to make their media for them, but it's not like there weren't a few prominent ones with prominent black characters. And it's true, times were different. But that just means the times are different now too.
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Re: What would a reboot have to do in order to comply to today's standards?

Post by MyVisionity » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:14 pm

pepd wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:53 pm
Mr Popo's design seems based on the black face, yes, but I never saw the character as a parody of black people really.
Mister Popo is unquestionably a racist parody of Black people. Not everyone will realize it, but it is true.

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Re: What would a reboot have to do in order to comply to today's standards?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:30 pm

If Dragon Ball was a erotic comedy for adults I wouldn't mind the Muten Roushi so much because then he'd be there as part of someone's fetish. The issue is that the Muten Roushi is a mentor figure in a comic for kids, he needs to either not be a perverted creep or need to be used as a clear message to kids to not be a creep.
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Re: What would a reboot have to do in order to comply to today's standards?

Post by KBABZ » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:49 pm

MyVisionity wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:14 pm
pepd wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:53 pm
Mr Popo's design seems based on the black face, yes, but I never saw the character as a parody of black people really.
Mister Popo is unquestionably a racist parody of Black people. Not everyone will realize it, but it is true.
Agreed. He's not a parody, and he may be the best fighter Goku knew for three years, but he's still got literally black skin with thick red lips, doesn't speak English very well and is a servant to somebody else. It's very telling that after the Daimao Arc, he is only EVER seen as a caretaker who only serves everyone else, and Bulma finds him creepy in the Saiyan Arc.

It doesn't need to be a parody to be offensive beyond the Black Face.

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Re: What would a reboot have to do in order to comply to today's standards?

Post by Kunzait_83 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:53 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:55 am
...but it's still intentionally overtly queer-coding a villain, while the protagonists are portrayed straight and flat as can be, especially during the Namek arc. Being based on a literary figure doesn't stop the issue from being an issue.
JulieYBM wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:34 am
...uh...it says right here that the man is tied to homosexuality. Freeza being based on a gay icon...just makes things worse, if anything.

There's also something vaguely transphobic about castrating one's self to achieve martial arts, since a lot of trans women who undergo gender affirmation surgery are accused of being mentally ill men chasing after an impossible state of womanhood.
Bubai is largely considered a POSITIVE trans icon in Chinese literature, since she isn't merely or solely creepy/crazy (though she is those things as well). She's ultimately a villain when all's said and done, but she's one with endless reams of depth and layers to her, and isn't merely just a cackling badguy.

There's a whole debate about whether or not its gay/transphobic to have literally ANY LGBTQ characters who are in any way villainous... which personally (granted I'm saying this as a cis/straight dude, so take that for what its worth) I think this view that LGBTQ characters can somehow never, ever be villains without it being homophobic, is ultimately reductive and harmful to LGBTQ folk. Of COURSE LGBTQ people can also be awful, shitty human beings... they're just imperfect people, same as any of us.

What it ultimately comes down to is the question of "Does this person's gayness/trans status somehow define or inform their worst qualities"? Is the implication that in being gay/trans, this person has been "corrupted" in some form? In the case of Bubai - and I'm not the one saying this, the Chinese LGBTQ community overall largely tends to agree on this (for the most part anyway, there's always dissenting opinions) - she's generally considered a beloved literary character among the Chinese LGBTQ because her trans status ISN'T what ultimately makes her a villain and plays no role in her worst qualities.

Eunuchs have a long, sordid history in China, and its only when you really get that history that you start to see part of why it is that Bubai is ultimately considered a positive, empowering figure to Chinese LGBTQ folk. In ancient China, Eunuchs were a class of slaves and servants to the royal court who were castrated as a form of emasculation, and to make sure they were reliably loyal and had no physical urges that might get in the way of their duties: particularly as they were often servants for royal Harems, and castration ensured that they wouldn't be tempted to move in on any of the palace sex slaves/sex servants.

They were often looked down upon by most of Chinese society for a variety of reasons: part of it was the whole social stigma of being "unmanned" as it were, which made Chinese people often paint them as pathetic and of lower status (Eunuchs were considered expendable, and it was seen as a lesser crime for murdering one). But also at the same time, as contradictory as it was, many Chinese bureaucrats and political bigwigs also looked down on them because in later dynastic eras, Eunuchs started being educated more to be secretaries and personal aides to palace royalty: which meant that they had the potential to actually rise in status in the royal court and seize real power (Wang Zhen for a particularly famous example), which made them be seen by many dynastic power brokers as rivals and threats to THEIR status. Thus they would paint Eunuchs with the stereotype of being scheming, conniving, and power hungry, having merely castrated themselves so that they could climb their way to the top.

Bubai is a wholly unique figure in Chinese literature because she bucks almost ALL of the negative stereotypes associated with Eunuchs, even while still ultimately being villainous. Bubai is never, ever at any point in the SPW series depicted as being in any which way lowly or pathetic: she's ultimately a majestic, regal figure of grace and incredible charisma, capable of commanding the presence of even the most powerful martial arts masters in the series, and her sense of agency is never remotely an issue. While she'd initially castrated herself in pursuit of mastering an especially difficult and powerful martial arts technique, she soon thereafter comes to willingly and openly identify as a woman: something which Chinese Eunuchs almost NEVER did. Eunuchs were always, ALWAYS depicted as emasculated (and thus pathetic and lowly) men.

Bubai instead found it an awakening experience and instead became so fond of her lack of manhood that she "transitioned" into openly and proudly identifying as a female. And despite all her horrible qualities that make her a villain (she's ultimately a massive sadist and is deeply vain & narcissistic, and shows a callous disregard for the lives of those who serve here) her transitioned status into a woman is almost NEVER viewed or seen in the story as in any which way a part of her evil. If anything, some of the most sympathetic qualities she has stem from her gay/trans status, as despite how poorly and cruelly she treats her servants and those she deems beneath her, she's also at the same time capable of great love and devotion to men whom she is attracted to.

While its only vaguely hinted at in the original books, there are numerous SPW adaptations where Bubai is often depicted as being in love with Linghu Chong (the series protagonist), and her feelings for him are generally shown to be a positive influence on her that often puts her into internal conflict with her other, less savory activities as a cult leader.

And hell, there have even been SPW spinoff material where Bubai is the protagonist (often in an "anti-hero" like way). One of the best and most notable of those being The East is Red, where Bubai is straight up the hero of this particular story and (among other things) helps defend China from invading Spanish Conquistadors.

Image
Its every bit as fucking awesome as it sounds.

I could write endless pages about this character as there is a LOT to unpack about her (and plenty of FAR better and smarter writers than myself have long already done so), but suffice to say that calling her out as "transphobic" is... I'm sorry, but that's demonstrating a TON of ignorance about the history of not just this particular character, but also the wider context of the Chinese LGBTQ community and how they've largely always seen her as such a crucial, important character for them in the pantheon of classic Chinese literature. In fact, there have been at least a couple of recent SPW adaptations that have tried to whitewash her as having been always a cis woman: and the backlash from the Chinese LGBTQ community was nothing short of seismic.

We can have a debate about how well this reflects on Freeza and how he's generally written and portrayed, but understand something: Bubai isn't just any normal popular literary character. She's one of the single most influential Wuxia characters of the last century EASILY, having ultimately spawned a whole subgenre and whole archetype of characters (across both Wuxia and even seeping into other genres) that are basically Bubai clones (and Freeza is without a doubt, however directly or indirectly, unquestionably among those). She's one of the most oft-copied, oft-referenced characters in all of Wuxia, for the specific reason that she's SO well written and so instantly memorable and distinctive as a force of personality.

Its not for nothing that she's also one of the single most coveted and prized roles for Chinese actresses (though I'd certainly more than agree that its LONG past overdue that she be played by an actual Chinese trans actress rather than another cis actress: THAT has needed to happen since forever and ever ago, and the fact that it really hasn't yet after all this time is completely inexcusable and insulting in itself) and the role is often considered career-defining.

What I'm ultimately saying here is that having a Bubai-like character in a Wuxia story is among the single LEAST controversial things any Wuxia story can conceivably do at this point. Obviously there's a real discussion as to how WELL each of these characters is executed and portrayed from one Wuxia story to the next - and obviously with something THIS ubiquitous, the results are going to be heavily, heavily mixed. And sure, I have no problems having that very discussion about Freeza.

What I'm more challenging here is the assertion you seem to be putting forth here that having ANY such character exist in a Wuxia story is somehow innately homophobic or transphobic: I'm sorry, but that in itself does a HUGE disservice to Bubai as a character and the incredibly positive impact she's had on the Chinese LGBTQ community for countless, countless years now.

Having a transgender character who is SO widely loved (by both LGBTQ and cis/straight people alike) and so well crafted with so much depth and nuance that she basically exploded into becoming a whole character archetype unto herself across whole reams of fiction... that's a MASSIVE victory for LGBTQ representation in media (and the fact that she originated in a book that's more than half a century old at this point is nothing less than a miracle in itself).

Obviously that legacy will be tarnished somewhat the more poorly done expies there are of her out there (and there are certainly a fair amount of poorly done Bubai-like characters): but by and large, having a Bubai-like character prominently front and center has been GREATLY normalized in Wuxia fiction for a VERY long time now. And considering that many of them (though again, hardly all obviously) are still often fairly well done in the grand scheme of things... yeah, I'd say that this character has more than earned her lofty Asian pop culture status, and I see no reason whatsoever for Wuxia as a genre - DB included - to have characters in her mold be "off limits". I would argue that that's wholly counter-productive to the LGBTQ movement, and further also plays into the far right wing stereotype that minority communities like this are "unappeasable and never satisfied no matter what".

We can have an in-depth discussion about whether or not Freeza falls into the category of "well handled Bubai-alike" or "poorly handed". But Dragon Ball, as a children's Wuxia serial, having such a character AT ALL featured prominently in its story (as a villain or otherwise) should in NO WAY be seen as controversial, particularly by the LGBTQ community. Bubai-like characters have been a vital part of Wuxia's genre identity for a good many decades now since the character's creation: and while there's always going to be lesser (if not outright cringy) examples of it, by and large overall its something that the Chinese LGBTQ community (and the LGBTQ communities in other parts of Asia where Wuxia is prominent) has wholly embraced and held up as a pop culture icon of representation in mainstream media.
Last edited by Kunzait_83 on Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:59 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
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Re: What would a reboot have to do in order to comply to today's standards?

Post by MyVisionity » Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:02 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:49 pm
MyVisionity wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:14 pm
pepd wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:53 pm
Mr Popo's design seems based on the black face, yes, but I never saw the character as a parody of black people really.
Mister Popo is unquestionably a racist parody of Black people. Not everyone will realize it, but it is true.
Agreed. He's not a parody, and he may be the best fighter Goku knew for three years, but he's still got literally black skin with thick red lips, doesn't speak English very well and is a servant to somebody else. It's very telling that after the Daimao Arc, he is only EVER seen as a caretaker who only serves everyone else, and Bulma finds him creepy in the Saiyan Arc.

It doesn't need to be a parody to be offensive beyond the Black Face.
It is very much a parody. The Sambo/Blackface imagery is meant to imitate and demean Black people. His design and behavior are both exaggerated depictions of Black people. I'm sure Toriyama intended for Popo's design to be somewhat humorous.

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Re: What would a reboot have to do in order to comply to today's standards?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:30 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:53 pm
Bubai is largely considered a POSITIVE trans icon in Chinese literature, since she isn't merely or solely creepy/crazy (though she is those things as well). She's ultimately a villain when all's said and done, but she's one with endless reams of depth and layers to her, and isn't merely just a cackling badguy.
That's cool and all but I'm taking issue with Freeza here, not the character of Budai whom I have no experience with. That the only queer-coded characters in the series (pre-Whis, pre-Kale, pre-Caulifla) are despicable people is just really fucking embarrassing and harmful.
Kunzait_83 wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:53 pm
There's a whole debate about whether or not its gay/transphobic to have literally ANY LGBTQ characters who are in any way villainous... which personally (granted I'm saying this as a cis/straight dude, so take that for what its worth) I think this view that LGBTQ characters can somehow never, ever be villains without it being homophobic, is ultimately reductive and harmful to LGBTQ folk. Of COURSE LGBTQ people can also be awful, shitty human beings... they're just imperfect people, same as any of us.

What it ultimately comes down to is the question of "Does this person's gayness/trans status somehow define or inform their worst qualities"? Is the implication that in being gay/trans, this person has been "corrupted" in some form? In the case of Bubai - and I'm not the one saying this, the Chinese LGBTQ community overall largely tends to agree on this (for the most part anyway, there's always dissenting opinions) - she's generally considered a beloved literary character among the Chinese LGBTQ because her trans status ISN'T what ultimately makes her a villain and plays no role in her worst qualities.
I don't mind queer antagonists in media, I mind the general representation of queer characters within the project. I've opined at length in other threads about the need for queer characters to be played by queer performers so I'll simply refer to those posts with regards to that. In general, I don't mind 'evil' queer characters if your project has protagonists that are queer and the project is run by queer folk in some capacity. You give me a series full of nothing by women-loving-women as the main characters and yeah, some of them are going to be antagonists! Also, that just sounds really hot.


Nevertheless, good to know that Wikipedia page that was misgendering Budai was full of shit.
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Re: What would a reboot have to do in order to comply to today's standards?

Post by Kunzait_83 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:53 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:30 pm
That's cool and all but I'm taking issue with Freeza here, not the character of Budai whom I have no experience with. That the only queer-coded characters in the series (pre-Whis, pre-Kale, pre-Caulifla) are despicable people is just really fucking embarrassing and harmful.

I don't mind queer antagonists in media, I mind the general representation of queer characters within the project. I've opined at length in other threads about the need for queer characters to be played by queer performers so I'll simply refer to those posts with regards to that. In general, I don't mind 'evil' queer characters if your project has protagonists that are queer and the project is run by queer folk in some capacity. You give me a series full of nothing by women-loving-women as the main characters and yeah, some of them are going to be antagonists!
Yeah, that makes total sense, and I pretty much largely agree with all that. I guess the point I was more making was that Freeza fulfills the role of DB's resident Bubai-like character, and the Bubai archetype has come to be pretty indispensable to Wuxia over the years (for largely good, positive reasons). I think its counter-productive to say that DB shouldn't get to use that character type (which again, is now a massively visible part of its genre) without it being somehow homophobic or transphobic, when the archetype has been largely and wholeheartedly embraced by the East Asian LGBTQ community.

I think its much more totally fair however to say that its an issue when villains/antagonists are consistently the ONLY or primary source of representation in the series. While I certainly don't think people should get TOO granular about it and start micromanaging each work with some sort of hardline quota for these things (that way lies madness), by and large you can still generally get an overall sense of where a series' head is at with these things in a more overarching sense when you look at particular patterns they fall into along those lines over a long enough stretch of time.

Despite my myriad of other issues with DB's revival, I'm still ultimately very glad that DB now has characters like Whis, Kale, and Caulifla, which were a badly needed counterweight that was mostly lacking in its original run.
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Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: What would a reboot have to do in order to comply to today's standards?

Post by jjgp1112 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am

I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
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Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World
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Kunzait_83
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Re: What would a reboot have to do in order to comply to today's standards?

Post by Kunzait_83 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:17 am

jjgp1112 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Here. Fucking. Here.

Image

Cosigning the absolute hell out of this motherfucker.

Can we just go ahead make this whole post in its entirety the new masthead for this website? Cause this was a work of art.
http://80s90sdragonballart.tumblr.com/

Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: What would a reboot have to do in order to comply to today's standards?

Post by ABED » Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:28 am

jjgp1112 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Agreed and if they want their kids to experience what they did as a kid, just show them the movies and TV shows you watched - Jaws still f'n works. No need to ever reboot it. Sometimes things are of their time and don't have the impact since it's a different context, the effect won't be the same. That large scale destruction Independence Day wouldn't have nearly the effect on an audience because we've seen too much since then. It was novel at the time.

Then there are some shows and movies that work regardless of time and place. The shark is still working. The notion that DB or Star Wars needs new movies and TV shows to grab a modern audience is ridiculous. I was born in 1985 and yet that trilogy still grabbed me from the start. Friends is one of the most popular shows on whatever streaming site its on because it finds new fans. It's not just popular among adults eager to relive the 90s. DB will continue to find new fans regardless if it comes out with new movies or TV series.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: What would a reboot have to do in order to comply to today's standards?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:07 am

jjgp1112 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
QFT.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: What would a reboot have to do in order to comply to today's standards?

Post by Matches Malone » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:20 am

jjgp1112 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I completely agree with this. I think the creative minds who are stuck milking these old franchises would be a lot better off if they were allowed to do something completely new instead. Imagine how interesting a multiverse show would be if it wasn't stuck to a previously established franchise like DB ? I really think the BOG movie should've been the franchise's last hurrah, with everyone, headed by Toriyama, moving onto a new series that's goal is to be the next big thing in Shonen.

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Re: What would a reboot have to do in order to comply to today's standards?

Post by ABED » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:32 am

I agree with BoG probably being the last hurrah, but I'm done with multiverses. It now feels like a lazy way to be able to kill off characters without actually sticking to those stakes.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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