Episode #0428 (08 October 2017)

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VegettoEX
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Episode #0428 (08 October 2017)

Postby VegettoEX » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:51 pm

Episode #0428 (download MP3) (rss feed) (subscribe in iTunes) (YouTube version) (SoundCloud version)
51:28; 96 kbps, mono; 35.5 MB

Episode #0428! Mike and Meri take a look back at Akira Toriyama's arcade machine design from 1993 before diving into three separate reviews of the first "Dragon Ball" movie's English-language release. We wrap up with an uncharacteristic, quick gut-reaction to the one-hour "Dragon Ball Super" special featuring Goku's fight with Jiren!

SEGMENTS:
00:13 - Introduction (what's on deck)
04:34 - Topic 1 (Akira Toriyama Dragon Ball Z arcade cabinet design)
10:44 - Topic 2 (Three "Curse of the Blood Rubies" magazine reviews)
38:05 - Topic 3 (DBZ Special Quick Gut-Reactions)

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I'd ask that you keep any comments about the Dragon Ball Super episode(s) in general to their respective threads in the appropriate sub-section, but I'll of course address any comments/questions you have to any specific points raised in the (admittedly extremely off-the-cuff and unorganized) post-credits podcast segment.
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Re: Episode #0428 (08 October 2017)

Postby Herms » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:55 pm

Some potentially helpful perspective on transformation fatigue:

Battle of Gods came out in March 2013, about four and a half years ago. During that time for new good guy transformations we've had Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue, and now Ultra Instinct. Plus the whole thing with using Kaio-Ken in conjunction with Super Saiyan Blue, and whatever the heck was the deal with Trunks in the anime.

In comparison, Goku first went Super Saiyan in the manga in March 1991, and the manga ended less than four and a half years later, in May 1995. During that time they had regular Super Saiyan, Grade II, Grade III, Full Power Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2, and Super Saiyan 3. Plus Fusion Dance and Potara.

(There's also Kale's transformations, if those count as distinct from Broli's. For bad guy transformations we've had Golden Freeza, Super Saiyan Rosé, Merged Zamasu, and Ribrianne and co., but that's up against Freeza's 100% form and all of Cell and Boo's forms, plus all the transformations for Coola, Broli, Bojack, Janenba, and Hildegarn if we include the movies.)
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Re: Episode #0428 (08 October 2017)

Postby tinlunlau » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:53 am

I actually played that DBZ arcade years ago in Toronto. But it didn't have that Tori-robo arcade cabinet design.

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Re: Episode #0428 (08 October 2017)

Postby Cipher » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:30 am

Finally got around to listening to this tonight.

My little Jiren post (maybe mixed in with some others) got a shoutout, so as a way of clarifying: I'm enjoying Jiren specifically because of how much he breaks from Dragon Ball conventions. Previous antagonists, and I absolutely think this is one of Toriyama's strengths, have been varying shades of flamboyant, colorful, and possessing of their own various visual or technical gimmicks. Even Tenshinhan has his connections to the Crane-Turtle rivalry, the visually bizarre Chaozu, and off-the-wall techniques like the Volleyball Fist. Hit is a walking visual riff on any number of action-media assassins, has his visual gimmick of keeping his hands in his pockets while fighting (well, in the manga anyway), and of course relies on his bizarre time-stopping techniques. (I actually find Hit a lot of fun.)

Jiren is ... just strong. That's it. Everything about him, from his personality to his design, is intentionally stripped down. As Kaioshin said last week, "He's strong. Plain and simple." And that's new. That's untrodden ground for Dragon Ball. He isn't a conniving, overly polite villain, or a slick assassin, or an arrogant bug man, or a bubblegum demon. He isn't afraid of rice cookers. He doesn't have visual twists. He's just a brick wall.

That's impactful enough, I think. In another series, he might be a dull norm. Here, he's a rather refreshing exception, however many arcs in.

Of course it helps that the presentation sells that strength. I also thought Meri's comment about the visuals not selling any sense of escalation or power was interesting. Episodes 109 and 110 were the first time I felt sold on an escalation of power in quite some time. A lot of it was just due to clever use of previous "big" attacks -- Jiren pushing back a Boo-arc-sized Genki Dama, powered by Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken Goku, with only his eyes, for example. It's a bit of a visual cheat, but we also had sufficient pyrotechnics to make it work. Then there's Jiren's little shotgun eye technique (??), etc. I don't know. This is the first time since the Boo arc started trotting out weirder techniques that I felt convinced I was seeing something on a new level of power. Before that, the last time would have been the original Goku vs. Freeza fight. This at least wasn't just the same punches, just the same kicks, just the same contained collateral damage, which is an issue that's plagued Super so far. I bought it.

Finally, I got a bit of a kick out of Meri commenting even as a half-invested viewer that the characters don't seem to be taking the stakes of the tournament seriously, as it's an oft-repeated criticism even from invested weekly viewers. I like that the latest episode (111) finally gave us a glimpse of a character expressing doubt about the fate of their universe, but holy hell, where has that been for the past few months? I understand Super is, for the most part, an upbeat kids' show, so I'm not asking for total doom-and-gloom, but Toriyama was always deft at allowing both off-beat humor and genuine horror their space (because he treated the characters sincerely, and no matter how absurd things got, they treated their circumstances sincerely). I'm really longing for the Boo-arc-esque breakneck switches between zany comedy and dire character-based tension I think this arc could and should have, though the last three episodes have finally begun to show hints of it.

Anyway, I too am transformation-fatigued. I just have to hope that the content surrounding the transformations is interesting. It might feel better if they'd kept the pre-Super conceit that Goku and Vegeta had ditched every form but a new, stronger base and Blue. Ah well. That's in the past.

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Re: Episode #0428 (08 October 2017)

Postby arromdee » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:33 am

The reason why people referred to Megazone 23 part II back in the day is that Megazone 23 part 2 specifically had an early dub created in the 1980's and which led to it being passed around through tape trading as one of the few translated anime available.

I found this page by quick Googling: http://landofobscusion.blogspot.com/2013/04/megazone-23-part-ii-international.html

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Re: Episode #0428 (08 October 2017)

Postby JacobYBM » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:25 am

The big problem with this arc is its narrative structure. The recruitment episodes took twenty episodes. Twenty! This is just maddening. The scenes with recruitment should have been weaved into the character-focused moments during the fights to give those episodes a break from the battles. The Tournament of Power itself also fails to capitalize on the inherent strengths of a battle royal, namely in showing the tournament in a non-linear fashion. The idea of a battle royal is to make this arc different from the other tournament arcs, yet insofar the series has been incredibly episodic in how it handles the storyline. I think it would've been much smarter to skip around the timeline showing different combinations of characters and saving the big moments for later (or alluding to them at first and then showing them in full later). Knocking Kuririn out of the tournament so early is another problem. Kuririn barely had a chance to interact with #17 and #18. Having a married couple fighting together is one of the few interesting aspects this arc had going for it. Instead, Kuririn is knocked out early and #18 goes back to being a try-hard badass by scolding Kuririn.

The arc really is a mess and makes me wish Super had been a seasonal late night series with some actual time for planning. Nagamine, Nakamura and the other episode directors and main animators are being screwed.


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