"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Rakurai
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1258
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:48 pm
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:02 pm

GreatJaiyaman wrote:I think everyone misses the point of Zeno wiping everything out at the end of that arc. In my opinion, I think Toriyama was trying to give weight to the next arc. It's one thing to be told how powerful Zeno is, it's another thing to see it first hand. Whether it was intentional or not, the ending of the Champa arc and the ending of the Trunks arc was both setting up the tournament of power. Zamasu was just a casualty of Zeno, so you could see how powerful Zeno is. Zamasu was immortal and even blue Vegito couldn't defeat him, so I think Toriyama was just intending to show you just how powerful Zeno was to raise the stakes for the tournament of power.
Showcase of Zeno's powers is something that would've been appropriately showcased at the beginning of the ToP arc. Much like how we saw the GoDs battle each other or the Grand Priest stopping two with fingers. But your stated point does not take away from how poorly written the ending was in the F. Trunks arc.

They had at least one means to stop immortality. The Mafuba. The mutherfucking Mafuba. It almost worked once were it not for Goku's hastiness. Or eternal imprisonment like the goat man in the current chapter after they beat him to a bloody pulp. Or whatever Whis did after he went back for Zamasu.

I'm not going to list all the hypothetical ways they could've done it without Zeno. Actually it is not even my platform to dictate how the plot should have unfolded, as a fan and consumer of the series. I am only here to criticize it. And back to my point, whatever hype that was meant to generate, to use Zeno as a means to completely defeat the villain is extremely anti-climactic and gives a wasted sense of effort leading up to the final battle. It is a literal deus ex machina. It is like fighting kid Buu up until Genkidama and they use a wish from Porunga to erase kid Buu from existence during the Genkidama struggle. It is like Goku & Piccolo fighting Raditz and Raditz getting one-shotted by an angry toddler Gohan.

And pardon my French even further here, but it is so goddamn r**arded that they decided to live in a new timeline where they as adults already exist instead of remaining in the current one, a situation that FTrunks has more experience with. I don't understand this insane narrative decision and probably never will.
Super Dragon Ball Heroes Universe Mission translation compilation here. All translations are done and owned by me.

SDBH 9th anniversary the secret development interview here. Learn how original SDBH characters such as SS3 Raditz, SS4 Bardock, Robel, & more were conceived!

User avatar
prince212
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 797
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:30 pm
Location: wild west

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:43 am

Rakurai wrote: And pardon my French even further here, but it is so goddamn r**arded that they decided to live in a new timeline where they as adults already exist instead of remaining in the current one, a situation that FTrunks has more experience with. I don't understand this insane narrative decision and probably never will.
No , it’s not , he’s gonna stay with the same mom he shared 20+ years of his life , the same one that lost his husband , the same that raise him , it’s not the same that remaining in the peacy current one where the big heroes are alive .
Or at least that is what I understood... he is going to the timeline that he lost , but some years before ... and black goku is not going to show up . He’s gonna keep on being the main hero in his timeline .
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

User avatar
Liquir
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:27 pm
Location: Dystopia

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Liquir » Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:55 am

Dr. Rota and Shu by Toyotaro:
https://twitter.com/TOYOTARO_Vjump/stat ... 8094735360

User avatar
prince212
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 797
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:30 pm
Location: wild west

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:17 pm

I was expecting one of those Toyotarō drew it pages , it looks like there’s no one this month ..
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... o-drew-it/
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

User avatar
Rakurai
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1258
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:48 pm
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:22 pm

prince212 wrote: No , it’s not , he’s gonna stay with the same mom he shared 20+ years of his life , the same one that lost his husband , the same that raise him , it’s not the same that remaining in the peacy current one where the big heroes are alive .
Or at least that is what I understood... he is going to the timeline that he lost , but some years before ... and black goku is not going to show up . He’s gonna keep on being the main hero in his timeline .
Is FTrunks supposed to be so desperate as to risk tampering in another timeline just to live with his mom? When he's already got Mai and a perfectly comfortable and familiar timeline?

His timeline got erased because he ultimately meddled with time. He goes into another one and risks fucking that one up, it's a violation even among gods for a reason.

I forgot the reasoning as to how anime FTrunks came to that decision. But FTrunks decided to go back cause fucking Gohan asked him whether he was going to go back. Smh.

Given FTrunks' past experiences and lessons, it made the least amount of sense to go live in another future timeline where he already exists.
Super Dragon Ball Heroes Universe Mission translation compilation here. All translations are done and owned by me.

SDBH 9th anniversary the secret development interview here. Learn how original SDBH characters such as SS3 Raditz, SS4 Bardock, Robel, & more were conceived!

User avatar
Acetona
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 134
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:08 pm
Location: デジタルワールド
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Acetona » Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:54 pm

emperior wrote:
Acetona wrote:
ankokudaishogun wrote: Boruto also has the main writer of the Manga checking up EVERY episode to make sure they are coherent, especially in terms of characters motivations, abilities and setting.
Ikemoto himself stated that the anime is as canon as the Manga because this.
I know the producers and Ikemoto himself has stated this, but I take it with a grain of salt. But it may be true, since I think the characters are always on character, while Super had bunch of ooc scenes like Majin Boo being a douche to Satan early on.
While Super definitely has flanderized some traits of the characters, I don’t recall many ooc moments (some are definitely questionable) and I don’t think your example holds up because Buu was always kind of a dick to Satan.
I think Toriyama definitely checked ever script for Super so if some ooc moment slipped it may have been due to Toriyama’s suggestions not arriving in time for them to change things, or maybe Toriyama just didn’t care or didn’t notice.
The flanderized moments are not inherently ooc so it’s entirely possible for Toriyama not to notice them when reviewing the scripts.
How was Boo always kind of a dick to Satan? He was on point in terms of characterization at the Zen Exhibition Match, but was terribly ooc on Battle of Gods arc. On Z, he was selfish like a child but friendly to Satan. He would never slap/punch him (iirc he did something similar in Super BoG arc).
キミもテイマーをめざせ!

User avatar
prince212
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 797
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:30 pm
Location: wild west

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:07 pm

Rakurai wrote:
Is FTrunks supposed to be so desperate as to risk tampering in another timeline just to live with his mom? When he's already got Mai and a perfectly comfortable and familiar timeline?

His timeline got erased because he ultimately meddled with time. He goes into another one and risks fucking that one up, it's a violation even among gods for a reason.

I forgot the reasoning as to how anime FTrunks came to that decision. But FTrunks decided to go back cause fucking Gohan asked him whether he was going to go back. Smh.

Given FTrunks' past experiences and lessons, it made the least amount of sense to go live in another future timeline where he already exists.
I’ve got a different interpretation.
Future trunks is a character of the future that already traveled 2 times to the past to save goku from death, without changing his own timeline .
At the end this last trip is a trip to his past to save himself , he’s got the right to do that .
He choose the right moment before Dabra ends the lord of lords and Beerus .
I see the point of criticism towards this black goku arc finale . But considering what happened, I.m.o is better for future trunks to stay away of this main “comfortable “ timeline and fight for his original future timeline , if you know what I mean .
Also , staying in the main timeline doesn’t avoid him to live where he already exists...
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

User avatar
BrolySSJL
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:26 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by BrolySSJL » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:26 am

Image

User avatar
TobyS
I Live Here
Posts: 2458
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:11 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TobyS » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:20 pm

BrolySSJL wrote:Image
I feel like this is more modern DB vs Old DB. Kinda harsh to blame Toyo IMO.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

Dbzfan94
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5676
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:16 pm
Location: Mt. Paozu

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dbzfan94 » Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:02 pm

TobyS wrote:
BrolySSJL wrote:Image
I feel like this is more modern DB vs Old DB. Kinda harsh to blame Toyo IMO.
He does draw that blank expression on Goku (in the right panel) quite a lot though

User avatar
TKA
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1109
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:26 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:35 pm

BrolySSJL wrote:meme
What's the point of this?
The Creatives who inspire me: Akira Toriyama, George Lucas, Chris Nolan, J. R. R. Tolkien and Zack Snyder


http://i.imgur.com/XAnj7Yi.jpg

You saw Batman v Superman? Is it the Ultimate Edition? No? Then you haven't seen Batman v Superman. Also, the Snyder Cut is the greatest, non-deconstructionist ensemble comic book film ever made.

User avatar
supersaiyanZero
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 415
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:10 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyanZero » Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:46 pm

TobyS wrote:
BrolySSJL wrote:Image
I feel like this is more modern DB vs Old DB. Kinda harsh to blame Toyo IMO.
Agree. It's pretty funny in that context though.

User avatar
BrolySSJL
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:26 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by BrolySSJL » Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:41 pm

TKA wrote:
BrolySSJL wrote:meme
What's the point of this?
What's the point of your comment?

User avatar
Miracles
I Live Here
Posts: 3763
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:31 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:46 pm

BrolySSJL wrote:Image
Is this actually in Super? If it was a flashback why wouldn't Toyotaro use the past art? Even if it's a blatant copy, I'll drink to Toyotaro. The guy is smart enough to copy Toriyama, arguably the best who ever done it and all this does is strengthen Toyotaro's art skills.

Happy New Year everyone!
Last edited by Miracles on Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Rakurai
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1258
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:48 pm
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:33 pm

prince212 wrote: I’ve got a different interpretation.
Future trunks is a character of the future that already traveled 2 times to the past to save goku from death, without changing his own timeline .
At the end this last trip is a trip to his past to save himself , he’s got the right to do that .
He choose the right moment before Dabra ends the lord of lords and Beerus .
I see the point of criticism towards this black goku arc finale . But considering what happened, I.m.o is better for future trunks to stay away of this main “comfortable “ timeline and fight for his original future timeline , if you know what I mean .
Also , staying in the main timeline doesn’t avoid him to live where he already exists...
Remember what happened in DB? He chose to tell everyone about the Androids before Gero even created them. About as right as you can get to save everyone.

And the timeline still got major fucked cause they fought different Androids, in addition to a different timeline Cell's unexpected appearance. It took them nearly everything they had to defeat Cell. FTrunks at this point should have known better than to mess with another future timeline. Then again you can argue that any fucked-up timeline is better than no timeline like what happened with his. But his actions could very well cause a butterfly effect that leads to Zamasu being successful instead of failing. To me, it's a matter of character wits and growth, FTrunks should have known better after all that's happened. Present timeline Bulma even encouraged him to remain!

He went back to our heroes' main timeline because his presence already existed in it. He did not create a new one by going back because the two timelines were already connected. Changing the settings on the time machine would create a new timeline (and thus a new time ring), which he did.
Super Dragon Ball Heroes Universe Mission translation compilation here. All translations are done and owned by me.

SDBH 9th anniversary the secret development interview here. Learn how original SDBH characters such as SS3 Raditz, SS4 Bardock, Robel, & more were conceived!

User avatar
Neo-Makaiōshin
I Live Here
Posts: 2333
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:31 pm
Location: Argentina
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:05 pm

BrolySSJL wrote:What's the point of your comment?
Asking what are trying to accomplish with that meme? What discussion are you bringing up?
Dragon Ball was always a kid series and fans should stop being in denial.

User avatar
prince212
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 797
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:30 pm
Location: wild west

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:34 pm

Rakurai wrote:
You’ve got your point , still my interpretation is different, it’s ok .
Concerning trunks last visit to the main timeline ... indirectly he’s creating a new parallel world where Zamasu don’t kill goku , if trunks don’t come to tell about it , Beerus don’t kill zamasu before he wish for gokus body...
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

User avatar
prince212
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 797
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:30 pm
Location: wild west

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:46 pm

Miracles wrote: Is this actually in Super? If it was a flashback why wouldn't Toyotaro use the past art? Even if it's a blatant copy, I'll drink to Toyotaro. The guy is smart enough to copy Toriyama, arguably the best who ever done it and all this does is strengthen Toyotaro's art skills.

Happy New Year everyone!
Happy new year !!!
Nah that’s not in super , don’t get fool , they just took an old page of nameck arc and change gokus faces adding some toyo expression and some anime texts. Kind of a stupid meme to tell new dragon ball super suck I guess .. the guy who posted it gets offended if you ask the reason for him to post this fake .. so let’s asume it’s just stupidity mixed with some reality to make some laughs
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

Lukmendes
Regular
Posts: 530
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:11 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lukmendes » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:23 pm

LightBing wrote:Any theories for the reason nobody could actually kill Moro? I don't think it's just a lame excuse to keep him alive, I hope not at least.
Merus says that Moro is a capable fighter even without his magic, which then he says that Moro was sentenced to death but nobody could kill him, so it seems he was just too strong for anyone to kill.
Since it's likely Moro will be building his power, I hope we get a bit of pursue with a sprinkle of adventuring until things get more serious. I just wished we had a bigger group, wouldn't mind Piccolo and one of the humans in for the ride. Let's hope Boo wakes up and does stuff.
Well, he might have some minons around, since we don't know just how he got freed, Merus deduced that Moro got his magic back and that's how he escaped, but that might not be the case.

And yeah, Boo could wake up to do stuff, kinda boring that ever since he changed sides he didn't participate in any fight, anime at least have him one against that wolf guy from universe 9, manga got nothing.
Rakurai wrote:The ending of the F. Trunks arc was shit not because of Toyotarou, but because of Toriyama's outlines.

Using Zeno as a deus ex machina after making Merged Zamasu nigh-unbeatable is as shitty writing as it can get for a battle shonen like DB. Making Mai and F. Trunks settle in a timeline where another pair of them exist is a shitty resolution for a character who was supposed to be brought back for fanservice. Having two Zenos doesn't do anything to the plot of Super as a whole, the ToP could begin just as easily with one Zeno, and it's twice the irritation having two manchilds toddlers "wow" and "ooh" every time they see something cool. Notwithstanding Zeno is a dumbass character who goes against the entire hierarchy of the DB godhood to begin with. Both the anime and manga suffered from this. The potential of the arc was doomed from the very start.

And no, Toriyama being a gag writer doesn't excuse that poor mudball of a resolution.
To be fair, one thing that Toyotaro definitely "helped" to make the ending worse is how uncaring Trunks and Mai are about their world being destroyed, Trunks talks about it like it's not a big deal that it happenened, he doesn't even look sad at any point, that's a gigantic screw up Toyotaro made and it can't be excused.
Rakurai wrote:Is FTrunks supposed to be so desperate as to risk tampering in another timeline just to live with his mom? When he's already got Mai and a perfectly comfortable and familiar timeline?

His timeline got erased because he ultimately meddled with time. He goes into another one and risks fucking that one up, it's a violation even among gods for a reason.

I forgot the reasoning as to how anime FTrunks came to that decision. But FTrunks decided to go back cause fucking Gohan asked him whether he was going to go back. Smh.

Given FTrunks' past experiences and lessons, it made the least amount of sense to go live in another future timeline where he already exists.
Trunks doesn't deserve victim blaming here (Something Vegeta even says it's nonsense when Black tries it in the anime), it was Zamasu and Black who destroyed his universe, not Trunks, blaming him for this is like blaming Goku for King Piccolo, saiyans rampaging on Earth, Namek's destruction, Androids, and Freeza coming to Earth twice, in which in all of those it's because of him they showed up, but it was indirect and neither Trunks or Goku had the intention for those things to happen.

And yes, I know that Goku blamed himself for other villains showing up at the end of Cell saga, but that was jus stupid, and he had to ignore that he saved the world from Red Ribbon Army and even helped people along the way.

I also don't see how Trunks' past experiences would mean he shouldn't time travel anymore, it was thanks to time traveling that he managed to save his world from the androids to begin with, and Babidi as well, so if anything, what Black would've taught him is that time traveling can fuck him up too, not that time traveling is this thing that only brings bad experiences.

And Trunks' reasoning is the same in both anime and manga, Whis tells him he can go to another timeline to live there, and Trunks is okay with it, and for the anime, all Gohan did was cheer him on.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:08 am My man, all Goku had to do was go SSJ3 and shock Vegeta so much the M on his head would have turned into an L and Buu would have never happened.

User avatar
TKA
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1109
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:26 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:29 pm

BrolySSJL wrote: What's the point of your comment?
You posted a context-less meme image that has nothing to do with any discussion and your post contains no information. What were you trying to accomplish by posting it? Clearly it's confusing when you have comments like this in the thread:
Is this actually in Super? If it was a flashback why wouldn't Toyotaro use the past art? Even if it's a blatant copy, I'll drink to Toyotaro. The guy is smart enough to copy Toriyama, arguably the best who ever done it and all this does is strengthen Toyotaro's art skills.
Don't derail the discussion with postings like these, my man. It muddies communication.
The Creatives who inspire me: Akira Toriyama, George Lucas, Chris Nolan, J. R. R. Tolkien and Zack Snyder


http://i.imgur.com/XAnj7Yi.jpg

You saw Batman v Superman? Is it the Ultimate Edition? No? Then you haven't seen Batman v Superman. Also, the Snyder Cut is the greatest, non-deconstructionist ensemble comic book film ever made.

Post Reply