Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Kaboom]

ah... I'm sorry I still can't wrap my mind around it for the simple reason people are arguing on things that aren't even facts written down from the series except for a few like over 9000 bit.

Nobody's arguing in here. This thread isn't about trying to prove whether anyone's levels are "right" or not.

On the contrary...

But anyway.. just don't use the word artistic.. honestly.. I'm a nerd too but.. what we nerds do.. isn't artistic when it comes to this xD We just have time on our hands and have a rather strange hobbies.

... An artistic outlook is exactly the approach of this thread. Whether they be serious attempts or not, it's about everyone who participates having their own takes, methods, and results, and proudly displaying them as they would a painting or a completed puzzle. Speaking of which, I'd say it's about time for me to continue...

~ Part Four - "SO I HERD U LIEK BROLY" ~

MOVIE 10 - "SUPER-WARRIORS CAN'T REST 'TIL BROOKLYN!"

• "You again?"

Son Gohan - 21,500,000

• Super Saiyan - 1,075,000,000
  Super Saiyan 2 (no lightning) - 1,075,000,001

• • (Gohan is his 25th-Budokai self, having been slacking off and is less powerful than he was seven years ago. Still much stronger than the last time he fought Broly though. Some small visual signs suggest Gohan MAY have been intended as a Super Saiyan 2, but since Toei doesn't know its ass from its hands when it comes to properly portraying that type of thing, I choose to ignore it.)

Son Goten - 5,700,000

• Super Saiyan - 285,000,000

Kid Trunks - 5,900,000

• Super Saiyan - 295,000,000

• • (The kids are likwise their pre-RoSaT selves from the Boo arc, since this film is supposedly "set" during the short training period before the Tournament. I guess Vegeta was off-planet training, maybe?)

Kuririn - 90,000

• True Power - 10,000,000,000
  Burned out after an overload of power from dressing like Piccolo - 500

• • (Good, Kuririn, you look kinda cool!)

Videl - 25

• • (Videl is pretty strong since she learned how to use Ki, I guess. But I won't bother trying to figure out how she survived a blow from Broly.)

Broly - 13,000,000

• Super Saiyan - 650,000,000
  "Legendary" Super Saiyan - 1,234,500,000

• • (Broly has become stronger since last time. He had an advantage over Gohan, but it wasn't so huge that Gohan couldn't put up a fight. Despite eventually losing, Gohan did manage to stun Broly a few times. So essentially, Broly here is the movie equivalent of Dabra.)

MOVIE 11 - "I'M THE ONE WHO'LL WIN, AND I'M NOT EVEN GOKU!"

• "Water: The new Super Saiyan."

Son Goten - 5,700,000

• Super Saiyan - 285,000,000

Kid Trunks - 5,900,000

• Super Saiyan - 295,000,000

• • (The kids are again at their pre-RoSaT levels, since this film implies that the Budokai ended without any grave incident.)

Kuririn - 90,000

• Super Saiyan 4 - 45,000,000,000
  Randy for 18 - 75,000

Android 18 - 275,000,000

Mr. Satan - 9

• "Mark" Form - 1,000,000,000,001
  Wet boots - 8

• (Ol' Mark has drastically enhanced his incredible power since his last appearance in the movies.)

Biowarriors ~ 100

• (The Biowarriors were designed to be able to beat Mr. Satan, which they indeed could, but were obviously nothing but fodder to 18 and the boys.)

Bio-Broly - 500,000,000

• • (Big ol' sludgehead was far weaker than his prior incarnations, since Goten and Trunks were able to put up a half-decent fight against him when working together. He was still too strong for 18 or either of the boys to fight alone.)

Water - 1,000,000,000,000

MOVIE 12 - "FUSION REBORN! HERE'S HOPING IT WORKS THIS TIME!"

• "Welcome to Jellybean Hell. I'm Gogeta, and I'll be kicking your ass today."

Son Goku - 27,000,000

• Super Saiyan - 1,350,000,000
  Super Saiyan 2 - 2,700,000,000
  Super Saiyan 3 - 5,400,000,000

Vegeta - 25,500,000

• Super Saiyan - 1,275,000,000
  Super Saiyan 2 - 2,550,000,000

• • (Goku's training in Heaven has made him stronger since the ordeal with Majin Boo, which apparently ended earlier than in the series. Vegeta, floating around in Hell as a little soul-cloud, has NOT become stronger.)

Son Goten - 5,700,000

• Super Saiyan - 285,000,000

Kid Trunks - 5,900,000

• Super Saiyan - 295,000,000

Gotenks - 35,000,000

• Super Saiyan - 1,750,000,000

• • (The kids and Gotenks are lifted straight from their pre-RoSaT selves, again. Since Gohan isn't his Ultimate self in the film, I'd assume this movie splits off from Goku having defeated Majin Boo with SSj3, as he specifically mentioned that fight. Hence, the kids never quite got to their RoSaT training either.)

Son Gohan - 20,500,000
Freeza - 3,000,000

• • (I'll assume Gohan at least got some training with the Z Sword in before everyone learned Boo was defeated. Freeza did not appear bulked or powered up in any way, so I'll assume he was in his relatively surpressed state as when he started fighting Goku on Namek. Makes sense that Gohan can blow him up with a single punch, then.)

Fat Janemba - 3,210,000,000
Super Janemba - 7,654,000,000

• • (Goku actually NEEDS to transform up to Super Saiyan 3 to defeat the Fat Janemba, but once he does it's major overkill. Janemba's devil-like form is much stronger though, and requires Fusion to overcome.)

Veku - 500,000
Super Gogeta - 15,000,000,000

• • (Gag-inspired survival of Janemba's attacks notwithstanding, Veku was, literally, laughably weak. Once the Fusion was performed correctly again though... hoo boy, we're back in Overkill City. Gogeta didn't even flinch from Janemba's punch.)

Kuririn - 90,000

• True Power (offscreen making Super Perfect Cell look like an infant) - 65,000,000,000

Ta-da! Tomorrow will bring the final portion of my movies list... or WILL it?

PLANET NAMEK.COM POWER LEVELS

[SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: This is the power level list that was on Planet Namek.com. For those who don't know, Planet Namek.com was an old DB fansite that was depressingly influential in the earlier days of English-speaking DB fandom. Why "depressingly"? Well, just read this thing. PN was largely responsible for, among other things, spreading the mistranslation of Freeza and SSj Goku being at 12 and 15 million rather than 120/150 million (The Ultimate DBZ Information Site being the other main culprit).

So basically, multiply everything in there by 10, and it might be a halfway-decent list.

[Herms]

So basically, multiply everything in there by 10, and it might be a halfway-decent list.

If you did that, Yamu and Spopovitch would both be at 100,000,000.

[Kaboom]

So basically, multiply everything in there by 10, and it might be a halfway-decent list.

If you did that, Yamu and Spopovitch would both be at 100,000,000.

Okay, MOST things. >_>

Not like those two being at 10,000,000 makes any sense to begin with.

[Herms]

Not like those two being at 10,000,000 makes any sense to begin with.

I love how it has BPs for Yamu and Spopovitch but not Pui-Pui or Yakon. Because apparently that would be too speculative, I guess.

[Kaboom]

Not like those two being at 10,000,000 makes any sense to begin with.

I love how it has BPs for Yamu and Spopovitch but not Pui-Pui or Yakon. Because apparently that would be too speculative, I guess.

Spopovich is playable in BT3, whereas Pui Pui and Yakon are only spawned as part of Bobbidi's attacks. I guess that says something. XD

[Xyex]

+ Spirit Bomb - 120,000
+ Spirit Bomb (energy lost) - 12,000

The Swedish manga says that the Spirit Bomb has lost half it's power only. Is it correct or BS?

I don't think a specific amount was given for how much power was lost in the original, though I could be wrong. But I figure the attack had to be close to Vegeta's power at this point for him to survive it like he did.

Anyway, time for my Androids and Cell powers!

-=History of Trunks=-
~Park Battle~
-Good-
Gohan - 1,650,000
+ SSJ - 82,500,000
Trunks - 1,450,000

-Bad-
Android 18 - 90,000,000
Android 17 - 100,000,000

* Mainly going with the anime over the manga for this because, honestly, the anime just makes more sense in a lot of places (to me, at least). So Trunks isn't an SSJ here. Gohan's weaker than his father on Namek, as he talks about wearing the kame gi to be stronger, or something along those lines. Gohan's able to do sort of well in his fight here, but is clearly outmatched all the same.

~Gohan's Death~
-Good-
Gohan - 1,750,000
+ SSJ - 87,500,000
Trunks - 1,520,000
+ SSJ - 76,000,000

-Bad-
Android 18 - 90,000,000
+ Full Power - 230,000,000
Android 17 - 100,000,000
+ Full Power - 250,000,000

* An unknown amount of time later, after some intensive training of Trunks trying to get him to Super Saiya-jin, Gohan's improved some more. Now he's able to fight fairly well against 17. Of course, 17 then reveals they've been using less than half (I've got them at 40%) of their power. He and 18 then quickly make short work of him at their full power. Trunks then finds Gohan dead and transforms into a Super Saiya-jin himself.

~Bridge Town~
-Good-
Trunks - 1,940,000
+ SSJ - 97,000,000

-Bad-
Android 18 - 115,000,000
Android 17 - 125,000,000

* Three years later Trunks is now stronger than Gohan, though still not quite as strong as Goku was on Namek. The Androids have taken to running at 50% since their battle with Gohan, which is why they're still able to handle the stronger Trunks (though, as he says, he can almost fight evenly with them one-on-one).

-=Trunks Saga=-
-Good-
Yamcha - 18,000
Tien - 23,000
Krillin - 25,500
Trunks - 5
+ Full Power - 1,940,000
+ SSJ - 97,000,000
Goku - 2,100,000
+ SSJ - 105,000,000

-Bad-
Soldiers - 1,300
Cold - 8,000,000
Freeza - 5,000,000
+ Full Power - 100,000,000 (unused)

* Trunks isn't any better than he was in his last fight with the Androids. Only a few weeks passed and the Zenkais are gone (well, the Daizneshuu says they no longer give any real increase, but it's easier just to exclude them than to tack one or two thousand points) so no real change for him. Goku likewise didn't get a boost, and spent most of his time learning to teleport, soe he's not much changed either. Freeza's still suppressed when he fights Trunks (it's said he can get even stronger, so he wasn't at max when he arrived, and he never powered up) so Trunks makes quick work of him.

-=Android Saga=-
-Good-
Yamcha - 42,000
Tien - 48,000
Krillin - 53,000
Gohan - 1,200,000
Piccolo - 4,500,000
+ W/out weights - 45,000,000
Goku - 3,000,000
+ SSJ - 150,000,000
+ Post Kamehameha - 30,000,000
Vegeta - 3,100,000
+ SSJ - 155,000,000
+ Drained - 82,000,000
+ Big Bang Attack - 115,000,000
+ Post BBA - 15,000,000
Trunks - 2,000,000
+ SSJ - 100,000,000

-Bad-
Android 19 - 28,000,000
+ Goku's Kamehameha - 35,000,000
+ Goku's Energy - 40,000,000
+ Vegeta's Energy - 98,000,000
Android 20 - 32,000,000
+ Absorbed Energy - 33,500,000
Android 18 - 230,000,000
Android 17 - 250,000,000
Android 16 - 275,000,000

* So, did pretty much the same here for the Androids as in the previous list. Took Trunks's level, doubled it, and added a little on top extra. That's were 17 and 18's powers come from. Put 16 a little over that, 19 and 20 are compartively weak, Piccolo's trained like hell with an SSJ, even the humans have made pretty decent gains here. Goku and Vegeta have trained and gained a good bit of power as well, though Goku's illness is reducing the force of his attacks. Trunks hasn't changed much due to only being away a few months. Didn't want to micro-manage 20 so I just lumped all of it into one here.

-=Cell Saga=-
-Good-
Piccolo - 45,000,000
+ Fused with Kami - 270,000,000
+ Worn - 230,000,000
Vegeta - 5,000,000
+ SSJ - 250,000,000
+ SSJU - 480,000,000
+ Final Flash - 550,000,000
Trunks - 4,800,000
+ SSJ - 240,000,000
+ SSJU - 450,000,000
+ SSJU2 (restricted) - 520,000,000
+ SSJU2 (full) - 630,000,000

-Bad-
Android 18 - 230,000,000
Android 17 - 250,000,000
Android 16 - 275,000,000
Cell - 230,000,000
+ Piccolo's Energy - 235,000,000
+ Humans - 290,000,000
+ Semi-Perfect - 400,000,000
+ Perfect - 590,000,000
+ Full Power (buff) - 850,000,000

* I've got Piccolo over 17 because he seemed to me to have a slight edge in the actual fight and would have won if not for 17's unlimited energy. Vegeta and Trunks have improved a good bit, thanks to their RoSaT training. I'm torn between the idea that the SSJU forms are improper access to higher SSJ levels, and the idea that they're like 100% and just pumping more and more power out of a form than it can handle. For this, I went with the latter, so the SSJU levels aren't multipliers, they're just the amount of power they can push into the form beyond the standard level. Cell's levels I deduced based on how well or poorly he did in a given fight, and his buff is just excess energy like the SSJU forms.

-=Cell Games=-
-Good-
Piccolo - 400,000,000
Vegeta - 6,200,000
+ SSJ - 465,000,000
Trunks - 5,800,000
+ SSJ - 406,000,000
Goku - 6,000,000
+ SSJ - 600,000,000
+ Warp Kamehameha - 675,000,000
+ Tired - 378,000,000
Gohan - 7,500,000
+ SSJ - 750,000,000
+ Angry SSJ - 1,380,000,000
+ SSJ2 - 1,500,000,000
+ Angry SSJ2 - 2,760,000,000
+ Injured - 900,000,000
+ Injured (Determined) - 1,600,000,000
+ Injured (Full Power) - 2,000,000,000
+ FSK - 2,000,000,000
+ FSK Full Power - 2,500,000,000

-Bad-
Cell - 575,000,000
+ Vs. Goku - 650,000,000
+ Full Power - 750,000,000
+ Buff - 850,000,000
+ Super Perfect - 1,700,000,000
+ Kamehameha - 2,100,000,000

* Piccolo's trained in the RoSaT now as well, and has gotten stronger. As have the Saiya-jins, and with them we get to one of my theories I pretty much *always* use in any list I make, unless I'm basing it on something other than just the series (such as the previous one that worked off the Daizenshuu and SEG). Vegeta's got a 75x SSJ multiplier here, Trunks 70x, the result of improving the form during their second trips into the RoSaT, but not fully mastering it like Goku and Gohan. The way I see it, mastering the use of SSJ, reducing the strain and the energy required to maintain it, ups the power to a maximum of a 100x power yield. Which is what Goku and Gohan get from it.

* On the case of Goku, I don't think Vegeta's shock over Goku's power was that it had surpassed his own at SSJU, but that it had surpassed his SSJ level power, which was the only level that mattered since SSJU wasn't really worth it. He's about doubled his power from before, thanks to the RoSaT and the effort of mastering SSJ. Gohan's done even better because, well, he's Gohan. And then you have Angry Gohan at the Cell Games, which makes him even stronger. Also same thing here with his power after being injured as before, mental block holding him back. And Super Perfect Cell is 2x his buff level.

-=Return to the Future=-
-Good-
Trunks - 5,800,000
+ SSJ - 406,000,000

-Bad-
Android 18 - 115,000,000
Android 17 - 125,000,000
+ Full Power - 250,000,000

-=Future Cell=-
-Good-
Trunks - 6,400,000
+ SSJ - 640,000,000

-Bad-
Cell - 220,000,000

* Nothing really to say with these. The first is Trunks right after returning from the past, so no real change for him. 18's still at half power, 17 is until 18 dies, then powers up to his full before charging in to kill Trunks for killing 18, but it's still not enough and he does instead. 3 years pass, Trunks gets a little stronger and finishes mastering SSJ, Cell appears, and is a little weaker than when Piccolo met him (as he'd not absorbed as many people yet) and gets easily killed by Trunks.

[Ludwig]

ah... I'm sorry I still can't wrap my mind around it for the simple reason people are arguing on things that aren't even facts written down from the series except for a few like over 9000 bit.

Nobody's arguing in here. This thread isn't about trying to prove whether anyone's levels are "right" or not.

On the contrary...

But anyway.. just don't use the word artistic.. honestly.. I'm a nerd too but.. what we nerds do.. isn't artistic when it comes to this xD We just have time on our hands and have a rather strange hobbies.

... An artistic outlook is exactly the approach of this thread. Whether they be serious attempts or not, it's about everyone who participates having their own takes, methods, and results, and proudly displaying them as they would a painting or a completed puzzle. Speaking of which, I'd say it's about time for me to continue...

Go look in other threads , heck the creat a character thread turned into a power list thread and people where saying "na unh! he was at this level then" To me that's an argument.

...Ok no I'm sorry but nooooo, I didnt spend so much years in art and whent to school there just to be told a power list is art, I gotta say making a power list ISN'T artistic. It isn't esthetic, nore is educational (yeah you can argue that point but I doubt a power list of dragon ball will teach the world over a new way of life) nor is it historical. If its a subject its more like math. A calcule of series of numbers from point A to point B. Your not painting a picutre, nor is any of you putting togethor a puzzle togethor in an artistic way. A puzzle of numbers yes, of art heck no.

[VegettoEX]

If you have nothing to add and no interest in the subject, why are you bothering to (poorly) post in the thread at all? Find something else that you *are* interested in, and attempt to add something there. Your nonsense about what is and isn't whatever classification you feel deserves a name clearly isn't welcome by the folks trying to have a fun time discussing this.

Half of the posts you have made in total on this forum since you registered are whining in this thread. Move along. Further nonsense will result in account warnings.

[Godo]

Why don't we just continue with the powerlevels and stop to discuss the necessity of this thread? I mean, if it's a useless thread, it will die on it's own soon.

EDIT:


Vegetto EX, you stole my shine.

And to Ludwig: Art is a very broad definition.
What you have learned in art school doesn't apply to all other forms of arts. Since you have studied paintings, crafts, and such, that's what art is labeled to you and the people at your art school.
I am not saying that powerlevels are art (in fact, I believe that they are more of a mathematical showcase), but you can't dismiss that it can be art just by going by your biased definition minted by an old institution that is fighting not to let in new and interesting ideas of art into the society, dismissing new and groundbreaking types of art, just because of that they are linked to computers and electronics or not viewable by the naked eye.

I mean, there are even people who see mathematics as an art, in their eyes and understanding it's beautiful.
Another example is Martial Arts, which in no way is linked to paintings or sculptures by your definition, but is accepted as an artform due to using the human body to show beautiful movements; to use something that was used for defense and offence and make it into art, such as Tai Chi and several other Martial Arts who have become dance forms.

I am sorry that you take offense by Kaboom's statement about that he thinks that powerlevels are a type of artform, but your reaction just proves my point even further about you being fed a biased point by your institution.


@ Kaboom: I have noticed your awesome Kuririn powerlevels, and they just keep rising! Poor guy has lots of bad luck though, with circumstances such as jet lag making him to drop a lot in power.
I mean, in every movie he should have been able to crush their opponent.

[Herms]

The Swedish manga says that the Spirit Bomb has lost half it's power only. Is it correct or BS?

That's correct. Goku tells Kuririn that "about half" of the ki ran off.

[Xyex]

Go look in other threads , heck the create a character thread turned into a power list thread and people where saying "na unh! he was at this level then" To me that's an argument.

And yet that's not this thread, and none of that is happening here, nor will it.

...Ok no I'm sorry but nooooo, I didn't spend so much years in art and went to school there just to be told a power list is art, I gotta say making a power list ISN'T artistic. It isn't aesthetic, nor is educational (yeah you can argue that point but I doubt a power list of dragon ball will teach the world over a new way of life) nor is it historical. If its a subject its more like math. A calculated of series of numbers from point A to point B. Your not painting a picture, nor is any of you putting together a puzzle together in an artistic way. A puzzle of numbers yes, of art heck no.

I'm sorry, but no, a few years at art school does not teach you what is and is not art. The art schools don't even know what is or is not art. Yes, power level lists can be considered art, when made in the right way. Throwing together a random list of numbers for no reason, no. Compiling an organized, thought out, researched, logical, and formulated list, sure. Making a list with amusing elements, or that is meant to be amusing from start to finish, most definitely.

Just because your definition of art is too narrow minded to allow the contents of this thread does not mean that they do not classify as art. Art critics are still adamantly refusing to even remotely consider video games as art, but I could point out many many games that are art. Instead of trying to narrow everyone else's minds, how about broadening yours~

The Swedish manga says that the Spirit Bomb has lost half it's power only. Is it correct or BS?

That's correct. Goku tells Kuririn that "about half" of the ki ran off.

Huh, really? That makes absolutely no sense, to me. The Spirit Bomb was created to combat Oozaru Vegeta, who is 10x stronger than the Vegeta who actually got hit with it. At even half power the thing should have obliterated him.

[Godo]

Huh, really? That makes absolutely no sense, to me. The Spirit Bomb was created to combat Oozaru Vegeta, who is 10x stronger than the Vegeta who actually got hit with it. At even half power the thing should have obliterated him.

Goku didn't throw it the first time to kill. Vegeta rushed at him, threw a ki attack, and Goku tried to defend himself with that energy. In the anime, Vegeta's blast destroys half the energy of the Genki Dama.

[Xyex]

Huh, really? That makes absolutely no sense, to me. The Spirit Bomb was created to combat Oozaru Vegeta, who is 10x stronger than the Vegeta who actually got hit with it. At even half power the thing should have obliterated him.

Goku didn't throw it the first time to kill. Vegeta rushed at him, threw a ki attack, and Goku tried to defend himself with that energy. In the anime, Vegeta's blast destroys half the energy of the Genki Dama.

My point is, even if Goku created the Spirit Bomb to be equal in power to Oozaru Vegeta, half of that power is still 5x stronger than the Vegeta who finally got hit with the attack. And Vegeta survived it well enough to get back up and still be a danger until Oozaru Gohan fell on him.

[Kaboom]

The Spirit Bomb was a last-ditch effort. Maybe the total amount of Ki in it was never enough to defeat Oozaru Vegeta in the first place.

[Xyex]

The Spirit Bomb was a last-ditch effort. Maybe the total amount of Ki in it was never enough to defeat Oozaru Vegeta in the first place.

Possible. Come to think of it, I can't remember if Goku had actually finished it yet before being blasted or not. If he hadn't, then it could explain things.

[Herms]

Possible. Come to think of it, I can't remember if Goku had actually finished it yet before being blasted or not. If he hadn't, then it could explain things.

He does say that it's finished right before he gets blasted.

[Ludwig]

Ok VegettoEX you're right. I wont even answer the two people who repleid to me here I shall take it via pm so I don't use space which another person can use for an actual reply towards the topic.

[Xyex]

Possible. Come to think of it, I can't remember if Goku had actually finished it yet before being blasted or not. If he hadn't, then it could explain things.

He does say that it's finished right before he gets blasted.

Then yeah, that makes no sense. Even if you go with the idea in my list that Vegeta's power had dropped to about 13k and Goku only charged the Spirit Bomb up to 120k, that's still a 60k attack against a 13k power. No way he should survive that.

[Kaboom]

I blame Kuririn.

[Godo]

Possible. Come to think of it, I can't remember if Goku had actually finished it yet before being blasted or not. If he hadn't, then it could explain things.

He does say that it's finished right before he gets blasted.

Then yeah, that makes no sense. Even if you go with the idea in my list that Vegeta's power had dropped to about 13k and Goku only charged the Spirit Bomb up to 120k, that's still a 60k attack against a 13k power. No way he should survive that.

Well, they did claim that Vegeta was really tough to beat. He took several death blows and still survived.
Goku's 4x Kaioken Kamehameha barely hurt him, if you get what I mean.
Hell, think of all the times Vegeta has been fighting a foe much stronger than himself in a battle and survived many death blows.