The human condition

[Herms]

----Notice:This old thread is part of my series of guides. To avoid necro-posting, please post any comments you have in the sticky thread for my guides, rather than here. Thanks!----

So I’m always going on about how even aliens count as “humans” in DB terms, and I figured that it’s time I just made a thread about the topic for future reference. Basically this thread will try to go over precisely what is and isn’t referred to as human throughout the series. The Japanese word in question here is 人間/ningen (as in jinzou-ningen). First, let’s start off with Saiyans.

Saiyans

When Raditz first tells Goku the big news, this is what he says:

First, you are not one of this planet’s humans!! You were born on Planet Vegeta, and are part of the strongest warrior race in the entire universe, the Saiyans!!!

He doesn’t say that Goku isn’t a human, only that he isn’t a human of this planet. Admittedly that’s hardly bullet-proof evidence on its own, but it fits in well with the later quotes. This is also a good example of how a lot of these instances where aliens are referred to as humans tend not to survive translation. Here, it sounds a lot better in English just to say that Goku isn’t from this planet, rather than to bother saying that he’s not a human from this planet. In Viz for instance, Raditz just tells Goku that he “is no Earthling”. I can’t exactly blame them for that, but it does make my job in this thread a tad harder.

Next, there’s when Vegeta explains to Goku about the Oozaru transformation:

The battle power of a Saiyan who has become an Oozaru is 10 times what it is when they’re human!!!!

There’s a few interesting things about this quote. First of course is that we’ve got a pure Saiyan, born and raised, referring to his race as “human”. Second though is the distinction between human Saiyans and Oozaru Saiyans. In other words, only regular Saiyans count as humans, while once they transform into Oozarus they apparently no longer do. So it seems that in DB terms, being a human isn’t simply a matter of species. Members of a certain species can potentially transform from human to non-human. Being human also apparently doesn’t have to do solely with sentience or intelligence, since as an Oozaru, Vegeta is clearly every bit as intelligent as normal (for as much as that’s worth). This also raises the question of what an Oozaru Saiyan counts as, if they’re not human. I guess they probably count as animals.

Much later in the series, when No.18 is fighting Vegeta, she says:

I’m surprised. Even if you are an alien, who would have thought that a flesh-and-blood human could do so much?

So there it is again: Vegeta may be an alien, but he’s still a human.

Then later in the fight, No.17 adds:

Son Goku is the strongest in the world, right? Among humans, that is…

Remember, 17 and 18 may be ignorant of what a Super Saiyan is, but they’re shown to clearly be aware that Goku and Vegeta are Saiyans (the 18 quote above being one example). Speaking of which, I think I just found a plot hole: the first time Vegeta is said to be the Saiyan prince is during the Namek arc, right? But 17 refers to Vegeta as the Saiyan prince during his battle with 18. Gero didn’t monitor Goku and co. on Namek, so how does 17 know that?

Anyway, in the Boo arc when Kibito is healing Gohan, he says:

To think that there would be a human who’d move with such gigantic energy as this

Kaioshin and Kibito both know what a Super Saiyan is (to a certain extent at least), so they presumably know that Goku and co. are aliens. I suppose that taking this quote on its own you could argue that Gohan, being half Earthling, counts as a human while Goku or Vegeta don’t, but of course the above quotes show that pure Saiyans count as humans. In Viz instead of human, Kibito calls Gohan a “mortal”. Viz likes to have gods (and sometimes demons) refer to regular folks as “mortals”, even though the term doesn’t really fit DB’s worldview, since all DB gods have natural lifespans and are capable of being killed. There are a few other quotes during the Boo arc where Kibito or Kaioshin refer to Goku and the other Saiyans as human, but I’ll save those for the “gods” section later.

Finally, there’s this quote from Goku from when he’s telling Piccolo about his ingenious plan to drag the Boo arc out a few extra volumes:

I’m no longer a human who’s particularly even supposed to be here…I shouldn’t be the one to do it. It’d be better for these young guys to solve things somehow or another…

So even years after learning that he’s a Saiyan, Goku still refers to himself as a human.

There are some quotes that go against this notion that Saiyans and other aliens count as humans, though notably they both come from before the concept of aliens is introduced into the story. First, there’s Goku’s remark during his final battle with Piccolo Daimao:

Piccolo: Th…there’s no way that a human could possibly stand against me, Piccolo Daimao-sama…
Goku: Hehehe…I’ve got a tail, so maybe I’m not human…

Still, though Goku entertains the notion of not being a human before he learns of his Saiyan origin, the Boo arc quote above shows that even years after finding out that he’s a Saiyan he still considers himself human.

Then there’s this exchange between Shen and Yamcha at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai:

Shen: Don’t let this get out, but actually…I’m not human.
Yamcha: Hehhehhe…So that’s what you wanted to say?…Don’t tell me you’re claiming to be an alien or something?

So Yamcha doesn’t seem to think that aliens are humans. But hey, this is Yamcha we’re talking about here. What’s he know about anything? But then, what does Shen mean when he says he’s not human, anyway? It’s not until the Saiyan arc that the God of Earth learns he’s a Namekian, after all. Apparently, the idea is that being a god means he doesn’t count as a human. Anyway, this brings me to my next two topics: Namekians (plus aliens in general), and gods.

Namekians and other aliens

OK, so actually I haven’t been able to find any instances where Namekians (who are known to be Namekians) are referred to as “human”. There is this statement from Goku during the 23rd TB though:

God and Piccolo were originally a single human…The evil heart he expelled in order to become God turned into Piccolo…That’s why if either of them kills the other, they’ll both die…

So according to Goku, God and Piccolo were originally a human. This human split into two; the good half become a god, and the evil half became a demon. Of course, Goku didn’t know God was a Namekian at this point, so this doesn’t really prove anything about Namekians counting as humans. If does however nicely disprove the misconception some people have that Piccolo was only considered a demon because of his funky Namekian features or whatever. Here we see that the child of Katatz was seen as a human, and only Piccolo was considered a demon.

Anyway, there is at least one line indicating that aliens besides Saiyans also count as humans. While fighting Goku, Ginyu says this:

The truth is that I’m also the type of human who can freely change their battle power…!

So Ginyu considers himself human. And if aliens like Saiyans count as humans, and even more weird-looking (by DB standards) aliens like Ginyu count as humans, I can’t see any reason why Namekians would not also count as humans as well.

Gods and whatnot

OK, so to backtrack a bit, here are some quotes from the 23rd TB again:

Shen: Don’t let this get out, but actually…I’m not human.

Goku: God and Piccolo were originally a single human…The evil heart he expelled in order to become God turned into Piccolo…That’s why if either of them kills the other, he’ll die himself…

There’s also this one from Shen, during his fight with Piccolo:

Even considering that I’ve borrowed a weak human body, the gap between our powers is too big…He must have trained considerably in his own way.

So Shen/God doesn’t consider himself a human, while Goku refers to him as originally having been a human. So it seems that despite having once been human, now that he’s a god he no longer counts as one.

On the other hand, there’s Popo’s line from when Goku first comes to the temple. Popo says that Goku is “the first human to have ever come here”. This is inconsistent with the notion that the child of Katatz was a human before becoming God, since obviously he came to the temple before. But then, Popo’s line is pretty inconsistent with all we know about the whole DB god system anyway. Popo’s been around to see many Gods of Earth come and go, and presumably these gods were all selected from amongst the inhabitants of Earth, just as the child of Katatz was. So unless Earthlings don’t count as human in DB terms (!), I’d say we should just ignore Popo’s line about no human having ever come there before.

There are also a few things Popo says to Goku that indicate that he doesn’t consider himself human:

You did well to defeat Piccolo Daimao, despite being a human.

We’re incredibly high in the air up here. The air is thin. It’s tough on you humans.

So Popo is not human, and God isn’t a human, but God used to be a human, before he became God (probably).

Moving on to Kaioshin and Kibito, after Goku kills Yakon, Kaioshin says:

Wh…what a completely unbelievable fact…that I, Kaioshin, should be thrown into a panic by humans of the lower world…

It’s kind of interesting that Kaioshin specifically says “humans of the lower world”. So are there humans of the upper world? Perhaps this means that not everybody in the afterlife is automatically a non-human. We now know that Kaios and Kaioshins are chosen from members of a race called the Shin-jin (Core People). Perhaps ordinary Shin-jin count as humans, while only those who have been selected to be Kaios or Kaioshins don’t? They are Core People after all, and aren’t people humans? Maybe?

Earlier I quoted a line from Kibito talking about how unbelievable it is for a human like Gohan to have so much energy. This implies that Kibito doesn’t consider himself human. There are some other lines like that. When Kaioshin tells Kibito to bring Gohan to the Kaioshin Realm, Kibito says:

Y…you can’t seriously mean…that you intend to let a human into the Ka…Kaioshin Realm…!? In…into that sacred region which not even the Dai-Kaio is able to enter…

Kaioshin and Kibito have been to the Kaioshin Realm before, so obviously they don’t count as human. And Kibito’s annoyance at the idea of a mere human going where even the Dai-Kaio isn’t allowed indicates that the Dai-Kaio is also not a human. So presumably all Kaios and Kaioshins aren’t human.

Finally, once they all reach the Kaioshin Realm and Kaioshin reveals his plan to have Gohan use the Z Sword to defeat Majin Boo, Kibito says:

A-are you serious, Kaioshin-sama…?!! There’s no way that a human or the like would be able to use the Z Sword!! That legendary sword which not merely myself, but numerous Kaioshins were utterly unable to handle…

This shows even more clearly than before that Kibito doesn’t consider himself human.

So in summary, planetary gods and their attendants, as well as Kaios, Kaioshins, or their attendants, do not count as humans in DB terms.

Demons

OK, so gods don’t count as human, but what about demons? They don’t seem to make the cut either. During the Daimao arc, there’s several instances of Piccolo and his spawn referring to humans in contemptuous terms. For instance, there’s Tambourine’s line from his second fight with Goku:

I'm…impossible…There’s no way we warriors of the Demon Clan…could be d…done in by a human…

Then there’s Piccolo’s line from his final battle with Goku, quoted earlier:

Th…there’s no way that a human could possibly stand against me, Piccolo Daimao-sama…

There’s also a few other lines like that, particularly with Piccolo during the 23rd TB, but you get the idea. Daimao and his demon spawn don’t consider themselves human.

What about Majin Boo? He does refer to humans in an “othering” sort of way like Piccolo and co. do, going on about killing humans, eating candy made from humans, etc. Also, Oob’s Daizenshuu 7 bio describes him as Majin Boo reincarnated as a human, indicating Boo himself wasn’t human.

Androids

As you probably know, androids are literally jinzou-ningen, “artificial humans”. And we’ve already seen the quote where 17 refers to Goku as the strongest in the world…among humans. There’s also Kuririn’s attempted wish after the Cell Games where he asks Shenlong to return Androids No.17 and 18 into the “humans they were before”. So 17, 18, Cell, etc aren’t humans…they’re artificial humans. Fairly simple. Incidentally, the idea that Cell, a being made primarily from alien DNA, is an “artificial human” is another example of how aliens count as humans in DB.

Animals, animal-type Earthlings, and monsters

In DB there are those humanoid animal people, like Oolong or the King. The daizenshuu and later guidebooks classify these people as animal-type Earthlings. Here’s an explanation from Daizenshuu 7:

Earthlings are by nature composed of 3 completely different-looking types of humans. These are the human-types, the animal-types, and the monster-types. What’s more, even within those types of humans, there are many people who look completely different. Because of this, it seems that they have developed an ethics of not discriminating against humans based on their appearance.

Daizenshuu 4 describes animal-type Earthlings in this way: “they look like animals, but they speak, use weapons, express human emotions, and behave just like humans”. Human-type Earthlings are the “most numerous kind of Earthling, the general human type”; these include people like Bulma or Yamcha. Meanwhile, monster-types are “Earthlings who fit into neither the animal-type nor human-type”, such as weirdoes like Pilaf. As seen in the Daizenshuu 7 quote, confusingly all 3 of these types count as humans, although only one in particular is identified as “human-type”. They’re just extra humany humans, I guess. Regardless, it’s clear that Oolong and co. are human.

On the other hand, there are regular animals like Sea Turtle or Bee, who don’t have humanoid bodies like Oolong. Daizenshuu 4 classifies them as simply animals, separate from animal-type Earthlings. Animals like these presumably don’t count as humans. When Goku meets Bulma, he says that she’s the first other human he’s met, though he’s been constantly surrounded by animals like tigers, bears, and fish. Oozaru Saiyans would probably also qualify as animals, since as we’ve seen they’re not humans.

Either that or they’re just monsters. Daizenshuu 4 refers to Giran as a “monster who is neither a member of the Demon Clan nor a monster-type Earthling”. So just as regular animals are separate from animal-type Earthlings, there are also regular monsters who are separate from monster-type Earthlings. Buyon’s also counted as a monster. Monsters like these probably aren’t humans either. Then there’s Yakon, who Kaioshin refers to as a majuu, a demonic/magical beast. Essentially, this is the animal equivalent of the term majin, demonic/magical person. So Yakon counts as a beast, not a human.

……………………………………………………………………………………………….

And that’s about it. Here’s a chart to help keep all of that straight:

Human

Human-type Earthlings
---Kuririn, Tenshinhan, Bulma, etc

Animal-type Earthlings
---Oolong, Puar, Shuu, the King, the Carrotizer Bunny, etc

Monster-type Earthlings
---Pilaf, Mummy-kun, Dracula Man, the Invisible Man

Saiyans (except when Oozaru)
---Goku, Vegeta, etc

Namekians (probably)
---Dende, the child of Katatz, Piccolo (after recovering from his spat of demonism), etc

Miscellaneous aliens
---Ginyu, Freeza (probably), etc

Non-Human

Gods and their attendants
---God of Earth, Mister Popo, Kaios, Kaioshins, Kibito, etc

Demons
---Piccolo Daimao, Tambourine, Majin Boo, etc

Animals
---Sea Turtle, Oozaru Saiyans, Yakon (kind of a crossover between “animal” and “demon”), etc

Androids
---Nos.17, 18, Cell, etc

[Gaffer Tape]

As always, awesome compilation and good job on picking out a new plothole. Could do with a little less Yamucha-bashing, though.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

I'm having a hard time understanding this thread. Are you trying to say there is a contradiction with Toriyama's writing where he calls Sayians and etc. Humans? Because, in all honesty all of these translations make perfect sense within the context of the term "human." For example,Saiyan's carry all of the same characteristics as Homo sapiens and our universe's earthlings, so I guess it's acceptable to call them humans in that respect. Meanwhile, also referring to them as aliens makes sense as well because the definition of alien can apply to anything foreign, though I'm sure you knew that. So again, what are we talking about?

[Herms]

I'm having a hard time understanding this thread. Are you trying to say there is a contradiction with Toriyama's writing where he calls Sayians and etc. Humans?

No, very much the opposite. I'm always seeing people refer to Yamcha et al as "the human characters" in contrast to Goku, Piccolo, etc, when this is actually inconsistent with how the word "human" is used in DB, and it bugs me (here's a recent example). Partially this is because I'm just persnickety, but also it's because I'm real big on the idea that the term "human" shouldn't just be applied to homo sapiens (probably a result of reading/watching too many series like Ghost in the Shell). So it's always pleased me that DB uses "human" to refer to aliens as well as Earthlings, and I want people to be more aware of this. That, and I wanted to sort out precisely what does and doesn't count as a human in DB, since there's slightly counter-intuitive stuff like Ginyu being a human but Kibito not being one. All in all I'd say Toriyama has pretty consistent, but sometimes confusing, rules about what he'll refer to as human throughout the series. Sorry if I wasn't clear about my purpose here.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

I'm having a hard time understanding this thread. Are you trying to say there is a contradiction with Toriyama's writing where he calls Sayians and etc. Humans?

No, very much the opposite. I'm always seeing people refer to Yamcha et al as "the human characters" in contrast to Goku, Piccolo, etc, when this is actually inconsistent with how the word "human" is used in DB, and it bugs me (here's a recent example). Partially this is because I'm just persnickety, but also it's because I'm real big on the idea that the term "human" shouldn't just be applied to homo sapiens (probably a result of reading/watching too many series like Ghost in the Shell). So it's always pleased me that DB uses "human" to refer to aliens as well as Earthlings, and I want people to be more aware of this. That, and I wanted to sort out precisely what does and doesn't count as a human in DB, since there's slightly counter-intuitive stuff like Ginyu being a human but Kibito not being one. All in all I'd say Toriyama has pretty consistent, but sometimes confusing, rules about what he'll refer to as human throughout the series. Sorry if I wasn't clear about my purpose here.

Ah I see, I understand now. It seems we were on the same page the whole time.

[Booney]

The Ginyu bit made me wonder.

The truth is that I’m also the type of human who can freely change their battle power…!

How do we know him being a type human refers to his current body?

For example, he is also the type of human that can change bodies.
But that doesn't have to mean that the body he's currently in is human, you know what I mean?

I think Ginyu always thinks of himself as his original form.
In which he learned the body swapping technique and also maybe to controle his ki.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, he might be referring to his being in a soul kind of way.
As in, the real Ginyu is a human who can freely change his battle power, no matter what kind of body he is in, human or non-human

And if this is the case, that would mean were back to only Saiyans and Earthlings being human right?

[Herms]

And if this is the case, that would mean were back to only Saiyans and Earthlings being human right?

Not really. Not unless Ginyu's original body was a Saiyan or Earthling.

[Booney]

Ow yeah, about that.

Maybe if his original body was also identical to the Earthlings with only one different detail.
Like the Saiyan tail.

Maybe then the others are still considered alien?


But I dunno, I can't do as much research and it's all speculation.

[frozie]

Perhaps they're just using it to mean "person"

But anyway, am I the only one who's reminded of Han Solo calling Jabba a "wonderful human being" in the remake of Star Wars?

[Gaffer Tape]

Eh, not really, since Harrison Ford was intended to be talking to an actual human being while filming that scene that should never have been put back in that movie...

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

When Nappa explained that Vegeta was named after the planet Vegeta after his battle with Goku, did he say it was because he was the Saiyan prince, or because he was the strongest? (Responding to the potential plot hole you've found.)

[Herms]

He says it's because Vegeta is just that much of a brilliant warrior. There was a thread awhile back on when it's first mentioned that Vegeta was prince of the Saiyans. I'll have to try and find that. Even if it's not until the Namek arc, I suppose you could explain the plothole away by saying that Vegeta got identified as prince sometime "offscreen", perhaps during the 3 hour wait for Goku.

[The Time Traveller]

But anyway, am I the only one who's reminded of Han Solo calling Jabba a "wonderful human being" in the remake of Star Wars?

I always laughed at that scene... it works as a joke when you replace Human Jabba with a giant CG slug that looks barely like Jabba in Return of the Jedi.

[FindKenshi]

After reading through Herm's whole post.. I'd say everywehre he says the word "human" is being used, I'd assume its the word "people" instead. Even if I'm wrong, I'll just assume that. It makes no sense to call Piccolo and Saiyans "humans". I think Toriyama was more of meaning to say "people" or that is to say, 'sentient beings'.

[Kiyza]

After reading through Herm's whole post.. I'd say everywehre he says the word "human" is being used, I'd assume its the word "people" instead. Even if I'm wrong, I'll just assume that. It makes no sense to call Piccolo and Saiyans "humans". I think Toriyama was more of meaning to say "people" or that is to say, 'sentient beings'.

I remember reading a post that Herms made about this a while back, even before I joined the forums, saying that it could be interpreted as either "human" or "person," and there's a different term for people in a biological respect. I think it's just a matter of how you interpret it in these situations.

[Anonymous Friend]

After reading through Herm's whole post.. I'd say everywehre he says the word "human" is being used, I'd assume its the word "people" instead. Even if I'm wrong, I'll just assume that. It makes no sense to call Piccolo and Saiyans "humans". I think Toriyama was more of meaning to say "people" or that is to say, 'sentient beings'.

I was watching an episode of Stargate or Battlestar Galactica on SciFi and having people not from earth being refered to as "human". It was explained to me that the humans on earth were not originally from earth, something that reminded me of another story (maybe from an anime or video game about life starting on Mars or Venus or some other planet). I agree that the usage of "ningen" could just be used to say person, or more procisely "ordinary person". The use of "mortal" by Viz actually makes sense when looking at how deities (both lesser and higher gods) and demons (who could be also said to be deities) refer to those not of their special classifications as human. I don't think that it really matters if they can die or be killed.

This is basically what I got from the info presented. I don't really know the subtleties of the japanese language.

[caejones]

"Nin" means person, and I think "gen" is something like "core"... but... I could be far from the mark. ("Genki"?)

So I'd assume it refers to someone that's human on the inside~!

[Bussani]

After reading through Herm's whole post.. I'd say everywehre he says the word "human" is being used, I'd assume its the word "people" instead. Even if I'm wrong, I'll just assume that. It makes no sense to call Piccolo and Saiyans "humans". I think Toriyama was more of meaning to say "people" or that is to say, 'sentient beings'.

While ningen can mean "person", I think the point is that Dragon Ball is quite unique in the way it uses the word. Even if Toriyama was using the term to mean "sentient being", it's still unusual and something worth noting about Dragon Ball's terminology.

[Piccolo Daimao]

After reading through Herm's whole post.. I'd say everywehre he says the word "human" is being used, I'd assume its the word "people" instead. Even if I'm wrong, I'll just assume that. It makes no sense to call Piccolo and Saiyans "humans". I think Toriyama was more of meaning to say "people" or that is to say, 'sentient beings'.

While ningen can mean "person", I think the point is that Dragon Ball is quite unique in the way it uses the word. Even if Toriyama was using the term to mean "sentient being", it's still unusual and something worth noting about Dragon Ball's terminology.

Kaiôshin and Kibito refer to Goku, Vegeta and Gohan as "humans". I always thought that was weird in Viz, since they know they're Saiyan, but now that I know Toriyama handles the term differently than we would percieve it, it makes sense.