GT Perfect Files on Stuff and Whatnot

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GT Perfect Files on Stuff and Whatnot

Postby Herms » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:14 pm

----Notice:This old thread is part of my series of guides. To avoid necro-posting, please post any comments you have in the sticky thread for my guides, rather than here. Thanks!----

I've been asked a couple of times to provide translations for some or all of the section on Super Saiyans from GT Perfect Files Vol.1, so I figured I should just post a translation of the whole thing in a thread for future reference. First though, just to be thorough, here's a translation of the entry on Super Saiyans from Vol.1's glossary, on page 87 of the reprints [the reprint page numbers apparently differ slightly from those in the original printings, so it would seem that this would be on page 89 there]:

Super Saiyan
A legendary Saiyan warrior who, while possessing a calm heart, has been awakened by rage. Their distinguishing features are golden hair that stands on end, green pupils, and a large power-up.

There are various types of Super Saiyans, which are largely divided up into 4 patterns: Super Saiyan 1, 2, 3, and 4. The ones capable of transforming into 3 are Goku and the fusion of Goten and Trunks. Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta have been confirmed as capable of transforming into 2. Super Saiyan 4 is a type which first appears in GT, which only Goku with his tail can transform into. Its outward appearance is also completely different than the other types, with red body fur and black hair, and it is currently the strongest Saiyan form. They return to normal when they receive large damage. Pan and Bra have Saiyan blood, but cannot become Super Saiyans.


Now, based on what's said in the Super Saiyan Evolution section about Pan and Bra potentially becoming Super Saiyans one day, I'm guessing that the description of them here as being unable to is simply descriptive rather than prescriptive (ie they can't now, but that's not to say they never could). Anyway, the Super Saiyan Evolution section in question is the first chapter in the "World Guide" section of the book, and runs from pages 62 to 66 of the reprints (so pages 64 to 68 of the original printings). Note that because the Perfect Files Vol.1 only covers GT up to the Baby arc, with only a preview of the Super 17 and evil dragons, it refers to Goku as the only SSj4 character, since Vegeta and Gogeta had yet to demonstrate the form in the series. The section also mainly focuses on when each character displays these transformation in GT specifically. The last page, which includes an attempt to reconcile the thing about there supposedly being 1 Super Saiyan each 1,000 years with the actual events of the series, as well as a breakdown of everyone from both Z and GT who reach each SSj form, is notable for not mentioning Broli at all, or Gogeta. You could take this as evidence that those movies aren't part of GT continuity. The argument on that page as a whole is pretty silly though: "the legend says there'll only be 1 every 1,000 years, but a ton show up anyway! But if you limit to to pure Saiyans, there are really only 2! Therefore the legend of there being only 1 makes perfect sense!" What the Sam Scratch kinda logic is that...? Anyway, without further ado:

Super Saiyan Evolution Chapter
Here we’ll compile the evolutionary history of the Super Saiyans, who continued to get stronger and stronger!! We’ll sort Super Saiyans 1~4 by each “GT” character, explaining things like each type’s abilities and visual differences!!

Super Saiyan 1
The transformation which Son Goku displayed in his battle with Freeza on Planet Namek was “Super Saiyan 1”!! Proposed conditions for the transformation include such points as “intense anger or sorrow”, “high battle power”, “a gentle heart”, and “a dangerous situation”. The main external features are an aura and golden hair on one’s head which stands straight up, and after the transformation one’s battle power increases remarkably!! One theory is that it becomes as much as 50 times what it is normally!! There’s also types like Grade Two, which raises power and speed through ki, and Grade Three, which relies too much on power!!

[caption to SSj Goku and Freeza fighting] Super Goku 1 vs Freeza!! At this time, Goku was about 25 years old. This event happened close to 30 years before “GT”!!

Son Goku
In this form, he fought with Redic, General Rild, Super Baby, and others!! His body’s strength doesn’t seem to be any different than when he was an adult, but apparently his small body has diminished his stamina.

[red text] The golden aura is the radiance of the Saiyans!

Vegeta
He transformed during his fight with Baby!! Since he cut his hair after the battle with Majin Boo, his upturned golden hair is now even more suited towards fighting!!

Son Goten & Trunks
From the same generation, the two of them are the youngest Super Saiyans!! Goten transformed when he was taken over by Baby, while Trunks transformed when infected by Baby and when batting Lood!!

Son Gohan
He transformed when fighting with Goten after Goten had been taken over by Baby!! It seems that even in times of peace, he hasn’t neglected his training. The differences in Gohan’s facial expressions before and after transforming are the most intense out of any warrior!!

Will new Super Saiyans emerge?
Pan has inherited Saiyan blood and posses high battle power!! If the conditions introduced on the right-hand page [see above] are met, Pan and even Vegeta’s daughter Bra should be able to transform into Super Saiyans!! When the evilest of dangers arrives, perhaps the first female Super Saiyans in history will appear!?

[caption to Pan] If Pan transformed, what would she look like!?

[red text] Super warriors with infinite power!! The legendary evolution starts here!!

Super Saiyan 2
A type of warrior who possess power surpassing Super Saiyan 1 in power, speed, and all other points!! However, it seems to not provide a rapid increase, so after Goku awakened to Super Saiyan 3, he would often skip over 2 and transform straight from 1 to 3!! In visual terms as well there’s not all the much different from 1, these differences consisting of the sparks in the aura and the hair on the head standing up even straighter than before!

Son Goku
Goku hardly ever transforms into Super Saiyan 2!! The only times being such as when he fought Vegeta after Vegeta was manipulated by the wizard Babidi. Even in “GT”, he only transforms in one cut (picture) in the new opening.
[picture of SSj2 Gohan] Gohan was the first to transform into Super Saiyan 2, during his battle with Cell!!

Super Saiyan 3
Out of all the Super Saiyan forms with golden hair, this one boasts the greatest power and speed!! However, its sole weakness is that one cannot transform for a long time, due to the large amount of energy it uses up. Its greatest distinguishing features are its brutal and villainous appearance (due to the Saiyans being an aggressive race who delight in battle), and golden hair that stretches down to their knees!!

[red text] Overflowing golden power!!
[picture of SSj3 Gotenks] Besides Goku, Gotenks is also capable of transforming into 3!!

Son Goku
He transformed during his showdown with Baby!! However, he was no match for Super Baby’s strongest form, which combined Saiyan battle power with Tsufruian science!!

Super Saiyan 4
The form which draws out the battle power which Saiyans posses out to the utmost limits is this, Super Saiyan 4!! It’s distinguished by having a different appearance than previous Super Saiyans, with red body fur and long black hair!! It is called Super Saiyan 4 out of convenience, but due to it being a transformation from Golden Oozaru, it would be no exaggeration to call it a different species from all previous Super Saiyans!! Thinking of it as a different species, you could also name such points as the fact that unlike with 3 he has an adult appearance, despite being a transformation of little Goku.

Golden Oozaru is the basis of its super power!!
After succeeding in regenerating his tail, Goku transformed into the mightiest and most violent Golden Oozaru, devoid of reason, who carried out nothing but destruction!! When this Golden Oozaru gained a human heart, the result was the birth of the mightiest of warriors, Super Saiyan 4, who combines reason with tremendous power!!

[red text] A red flash!! The ultimate Super Saiyan, who has achieved a super evolution!!!

Son Goku
He transformed during his final showdown with Super Baby!! He’s the ultimate warrior, who fires a Kamehameha with a red aura!! Currently, only Goku is capable of transforming into Super Saiyan 4!!

Take a little break: Super Saiyans a la carte

We’ve looked into Super Saiyan, one of the key words of the “DragonBall” series. Try thinking things out with us!!

Is that thing about “a single Super Saiyan every thousand years” really true?
A Super Saiyan is the “strongest of Saiyan warriors, who appears once in a thousand years”! However, after Goku’s transformation, Super Saiyans appeared one after the other, as shown in the chart to the left [see below]!! Because of this, the believability of the legend seems pretty low, but actually Goten, Trunks, and co. are Earthling and Saiyan half-bloods (possessing high battle power from birth)! If you limit it to pure Saiyans, only Goku and Vegeta transform! If you think of it as “a pure Saiyan will transform once in a thousand years”, then you can understand this legend!! It’s also interesting that Super Saiyans are only generated from Goku and Vegeta’s bloodlines. If you think about it, both of their fathers (Bardock and King Vegeta) also boasted high battle power. Saiyan society had a hereditary system where things were passed on from father to son, so maybe the father’s strength was also inherited!?

Incidentally, the Super Saiyan legend has a passage saying that they “love destruction and slaughter”, but in actuality everyone retains their reason. However, if you’ll remember, there was a form where even Goku became extremely violent!! That’s right, when he transformed into a Golden Oozaru!! Surely this brutality, destructive power, and large scale are a sign of the legend that tells that they will “love destruction and slaughter”!! One can think of the Golden Oozaru form (which includes Oozaru Baby too!!) as perhaps fit to be called the true Super Saiyan!!

[red text] When will it appear!? The “true” Super Saiyan

Super Saiyan Classification Chart

Super Saiyan 1
Goku
Gohan
Goten
Vegeta
Future Trunks
Trunks
Gotenks
Vegetto

Super Saiyan 1, Grade 2
Goku
Future Trunks
Vegeta

Super Saiyan 1, Grade 3
Goku
Future Trunks

Super Saiyan 2
Goku
Gohan
Demon Prince Vegeta
Gotenks

Super Saiyan 3
Goku
Gotenks

Super Saiyan 4
Goku

The individual people able to transform are only Goku, Gohan, Goten, Vegeta, and Trunks
Pan: E—eh! There’s this many!?

Now I've done the part on Baby's transformations. [ ] indicates captions to pictures. Sometimes I'll put descriptions of the pictures in question inside the brackets, but generally I won't bother. The pictures are all of the relevant form of Baby, so they don't need that much explanation.

Shape-Shifting!! The History of Baby’s Transformations!!
Baby, the strongest of enemies, powered up by absorbing the energy of other life-forms and transforming again and again…Here’s all about that!!

1: Baby’s Larval Form
Baby is a parasitic artificial life-form with the cells of King Tsufru!! After the destruction of Planet Plant, he evolved into his larval form while drifting through space!! At the same time, it seems he developed Doctor Mu and had Mu gather power to help him grow!!

[picture of larval Baby from the front] He has practically no fighting abilities in this form.
[from behind] He’s destroyed by Goku and co. in his cultivation pod while his right arm is still incomplete.

2: Baby’s Child Form
Baby escaped from Planet M2!! Afterwards, he infected many innocent people, absorbing their power and growing into this form!! His first full-blown appearance in this form was during the battle on Planet Pital!! He remained in this form up until he infected Vegeta!!

[picture of child Baby without clothes] His right arm is undeveloped. In this form, he absorbs power from the people on Planet Pital!!
[picture of child Baby now in his trademark spandex-like outfit] By the time he reached Earth, he’d grown bigger than Goku!!

[big black text] A mecha life-form who continues to grow!!

3: Vegeta-Baby
This is Baby’s form after he stole Vegeta’s body and transformed!! His general outline and costume is the same as Vegeta’s, but his face and eyes now have lines that make him look mechanical!! Also, the hair on his head isn’t gold, but has instead become silver-ish!!
[ ] His eyes now have the same sort of cross-lines as General Rild!!

4: Super Baby
Super Baby is the final transformed state of Vegeta-Baby!! It has 2 types: Strongest Form 1, where Vegeta’s characteristics still remain, and Strongest Form 2, which resembles Super Saiyan 3. His final technique is the Revenge Death Ball, a mass of evil ki which might be called an evil Genki-Dama!!

Strongest Form 1
His eyes now have a glassy cover, and his hair has gotten longer!! The wings on his shoulders certainly leave an impression!!

Strongest Form 2
His hair has grown even longer than before!! His costume is close to what he wore in the child form!!

[big black text] The peak of all evil!! A demon of revenge who plots universal domination

5: Oozaru Baby
Super Baby transformed into this form after being bathed with 1,000 times the normal amount of Bruits Waves!! As the strongest of warriors, who blends together Tsufru science and Saiya power, his power surpasses even Super Goku 4!! Looking at his golden fur, it seems this ought to be considered a warrior evolved from Super Saiyan!!

[ ] Even after becoming an Oozaru, his costume and hair-style are still the same as his Strongest Form 2!!

Here's the fourth part of the world guide, which deals with the Saiyans and Tsufruins. Part 1 was Super Saiyans, part 2 deals with Baby's army, and is where the stuff on Baby's forms was from, part 3 is a family tree for Goku and friends, part 5 deals with the black-star dragonballs, and part 6 is the preview for Super 17 and the evil dragons.

This is actually the part with the GT timeline. The timeline was not really meant so much as a record of the events of GT, but instead as a record of important events in Saiyan and Tsufruin history. This is also the part that mentions "Planet Saiya", the provisional name for the Saiyans' hypothetical real homeworld. For whatever reason, in GT they often refer to simply the "Saiya" or "Tsufru", without the jin part (you also see this in the title for the SNES game "Legend of the Super Saiya" and a few other random places). So it's not a typo if the 'n' is missing from the end of "Saiyan".

WORLD GUIDE IV: SAIYA AND TSUFRU CHAPTER
Goku and Baby’s fight was also a final battle with the last survivors of the Saiyan and Tsufruin races at stake!! Part 1 inspects the differences and defining characteristics of both races!! Part 2 unveils the history of their battle!!

Complete Inspection Part 1: The Two Great Races!!

The Wise Tsufruins; the Mighty Saiyans
The Tsufru, a scientific people!!
The Tsufruins’ greatest defining characteristic is their status as a scientific people with gifted minds!! A famous machine invented by the Tsufruins is the “scouter”!! Worn on the left ear, it’s a small machine which instantly measures an enemy’s battle power, and even a single one can be used as an inter-planetary communication device!! It’s so good that even Freeza’s army officially adopted it!!

The Saiya, greatest fighting race in the universe!!
On the other hand, the Saiyans are famous as the most warlike race in the universe!! Low-level warriors have low battle powers, but if they form into groups they exhibit high battle power!! Even a squad of merely 5 can reduce a planet to ruins in only a few days!! Physically, they’re characterized by staying young unusually long, making it easier for them to fight!! The Saiyans are a fighting race for whom it wouldn’t be an exaggeration to say that they don’t simply “fight to live”, but rather “live to fight”!!

[ ] The Tsufruins fighting Oozaru Saiyans!! Besides scouters, they also have laser guns and tanks!! It seems they’ve developed military technology as well!!

Where is the Saiyans’ true homeland?
The mysterious “Planet Saiya”
Planet Vegeta (formally Planet Plant) was originally the Tsufruins’ planet, and not the homeland of the Saiyans. The roots of the Saiya are unknown, and all that is recorded is that “the primitive Saiyans drifted to Planet Plant on a mysterious spaceship”. Perhaps the launching point of that spaceship could possibly itself be the Saiyans’ true homeland. And just maybe the Saiyans’ home world still exists somewhere in space!?

[picture of an Oozaru] There’s also a theory that Saiyans were originally Oozarus, who gained intelligence and became human!!

What’s the national structure of each race!?
For both, a royal family stands at the peak of the race!!
The peak of Saiyan authority is King Vegeta!! The king was the strongest Saiyan at the time, and is famous for having commanded the plan to wipe out the Tsufruins!! The Saiyans don’t discriminate by differences in race or things like that, but in turn have a strict class system!!

The Tsufruins, for their part, actually had a king as well (he’s the character lying in the bed in the picture on the next page)!! Besides this, nothing else is known. However, it seems that until the Saiyans began their revolt, they lived in peace and prosperity!!

[picture of Vegeta-Baby] Vegeta-Baby has both Saiya and Tsufru royal blood!!
[big black text] Vegeta-Baby is a king inside a king!?

[picture of King Vegeta] Even among the Saiyans, King Vegeta is said to have been an outstanding battle strategist!!

The Tsufruins have super-deformed bodies!?
Tsufruins are child-sized!!
The gravity of Planet Plant was about 10 times that of Earth!! The Saiyans’ strength was also due to them having honed their bodies under this 10-fold gravity!! The Tsufruins, who lived on Planet Plant from the beginning, were all short, probably due to this gravity. They were only about half as tall as Saiyans or Earthlings!! Even Baby had a child-like height and body before he infected Vegeta!! It seems that this was because he inherited the genes of King Tsufru!!

Height Comparison Chart
[pictures of adult Goku, kid Goku, and Baby in his “child” form (which is apparently really the size of an adult Tsufruin)] Here we went and made a height comparison chart using Baby as a representative of the Tsufruins. Tsufruins are only about half as tall as Saiyans or Earthlings, so little Goku and Baby’s child body are roughly the same size!!

Saiyans [represented by kid Goku]: “Hey, you’re about the same size as me.”
Tsufruins [represented by Baby]: “Shut up!”

Complete Inspection Part 2: The Universal History of Saiya and Tsufru Interaction!!
Things in bold are new bits of history that came to light in “DragonBall GT”

C. 238 Before Age: The appearance of the Super Saiyan!!
The Super Saiyan, told of in legend, appears and pushes the limits of slaughter and destruction.

C. Age 550: The primeval Saiyans drift to Planet Plant!!
The primeval Saiyans drift on their spaceship to the bountiful Planet Plant, where science had flourished in peace. Reproducing quickly, in the next few hundred years the primeval Saiyans evolve to an extraordinary extent and gain intelligence. But at the same time, their instincts for slaughter grew as well.
[ ] The Tsufruins approve of the Saiyans’ residency, but…

C. Age 720~730: All-out confrontation between the Saiyans and Tsufruins!!
The all-out war between the Saiyans and Tsufruins begins. Cornered, the Tsufruins use their remaining scientific power to develop a parasitic life-form (later to be known as Baby). This life-form inherits the genes of King Tsufru, and is launched into space. The battle results in the Saiyans’ overwhelming victory, the Tsufruins are wiped out, and Planet Plant is renamed as Planet Vegeta.
[ ] The thing in the cultivation pod is Baby, and the sleeping man is King Tsufru.

Age 731: The Saiyans and Freeza join forces!!
[ ] King Vegeta obeys Freeza, but inside he is filled with hatred.

Age 732: Vegeta is born!!

Age 735: The “Universal Tsufruization Plant” goes into operation!
While drifting through space, Baby swears vengeance against the Saiyans for wiping out the Tsufruins. Furthermore, he devises the “Universal Tsufruization Plan”, in order to revive the Tsufru.


C.Age 735: Repeated incidences of insurrection among the Saiyans!!

Age 737: Kakarotto (Son Goku) is born!!
Kakarotto is born. King Vegeta and Goku’s father Barduck die in battle against Freeza. At the same time, Kakarotto’s space pod is shot out into space. Planet Vegeta is wiped out by Freeza. The four remaining Saiyans are Kakarotto, his older brother Raditz, Vegeta, and Vegeta’s subordinate Nappa.
[ ] Kakarotto, immediately after arriving on Earth in his space pod. Found by Grandpa Gohan, he is given the name Son Goku!!

Age 740: Doctor Mu is born!
Baby manufactures Doctor Mu in order to gather the resurrection energy he needs to obtain a powerful body. Baby programs Mu with the method of developing machine mutants, and production begins on Llod, M-2, and the others.


Age 760-770: Planet M-2 is completed
Doctor Mu makes the alien Rild a general, in addition to restructuring his body. At the same time, the super gigantic planet-type machine mutant (Planet M-2) is completed, its functions having been linked to General Rild. Using Planet M-2 as a base, the M-2 Army begins gathering energy from throughout the universe.


Age 766: Trunks is born!!

Age 767: Goten is born!!

Age 775: Doltaki becomes Baby’s underling!
Doctor Mu makes the space swindler Doltaki one of his subordinates, and gives him Lood, the strongest machine mutant. Doltaki uses his skills as a swindler to create the scam religion Loodism, and begins gathering energy from its adherents.


Age 779: Pan is born!!

Age 780: Bra is born!!

Age 789: Goku, Trunks, and Pan depart from Earth!

Age 789: Goku encounters Baby!!
Several months later, they encounter Baby in his larval form. After that, Baby continues to infect various aliens, accumulating power.


Age 789: Baby appears on Earth!
Nine months after Goku and the others left, Baby arrives on Earth, infecting all the Earthlings and bringing them under his rule. Furthermore, he creates Planet Tsufru through the power of Shenlong, and uses it as the base for the Universal Tsufruization Plan.


Age 789: Super Saiyan 4 appears!!
War breaks out between a Saiyan survivor (Son Goku) and the last remaining Tsufruin (Baby). Through this battle, the Tsufruin are completely exterminated.


[big black text] Brawn (Saiya) VS Science (Tsufru)!! The grand history of the battle between these alien races!!
Last edited by Herms on Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:19 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: GT Perfect Files on Super Saiyans

Postby Bardo117 » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:24 pm

Cool. Interesting read.
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Re: GT Perfect Files on Super Saiyans

Postby JacobYBM » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:42 pm

Thanks a lot for posting, Herms! There is so little concrete information about Dragon Ball GT out on the internet so it is nice getting some real information.

It's interesting...they mention Gohan has continued to train. Do they mean to suggest he is more powerful than when he fought Majin Boo?
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Re: GT Perfect Files on Super Saiyans

Postby Nazi Cola » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:45 pm

Very nice. Thanks indeed for this, Herms.

So it does say SSj2 has the sparks in the aura. Mwahaha. 8)
CatouttaHell wrote:I guess he's just impossibly powerful and he now gets thrills from letting things go as much to hell as possible before busting out his ultimate power and ending the villain or some shit.

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Re: GT Perfect Files on Super Saiyans

Postby Bardo117 » Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:08 pm

Yuugi's Black Magician wrote:Thanks a lot for posting, Herms! There is so little concrete information about Dragon Ball GT out on the internet so it is nice getting some real information.

It's interesting...they mention Gohan has continued to train. Do they mean to suggest he is more powerful than when he fought Majin Boo?


Gohan was weaker than Vegeta in the series. This is very contradicting to what actually happened in the show.
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Re: GT Perfect Files on Super Saiyans

Postby SSJ4_Zankuto » Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:26 pm

I now see why Vegeta can't go Super Saiya-jin 3 because Goku will always be better then Vegeta.

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Re: GT Perfect Files on Super Saiyans

Postby Bardo117 » Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:32 pm

SSJ4_Zankuto wrote:I now see why Vegeta can't go Super Saiya-jin 3 because Goku will always be better then Vegeta.


Don't you need other-world training? Maybe when Vegeta dies, he'll get the chance to keep his body.
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Re: GT Perfect Files on Super Saiyans

Postby Herms » Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:45 pm

Thinking about it a tad more, the only way I can make any sense out of the whole arguement about the "1 every 1,000 years" part of the Super Saiyan legend actually working if you limit it to the 2 pure-blooded Saiyans Goku and Vegeta would be if "1 every 1,000 years" didn't mean that the appearance of each new Super Saiyan would be separated by an entire millennium, but rather that each millennium would have 1 (pure-blooded) Super Saiyan each, who could theoretically appear at any time during that millennium. Goku simply appeared at the tail-end of his millennium, while Vegeta appeared at the very start of his. Sort of like if you said that a Super Saiyan would appear every year, and Goku appeared in December of one year and Vegeta in January of the next. This still strikes me as a rather silly solution which I doubt the Perfect Files writers really had in mind, and I personally prefer going the "legends are never true in all details" route.

Yuugi's Black Magician wrote:It's interesting...they mention Gohan has continued to train. Do they mean to suggest he is more powerful than when he fought Majin Boo?

Not sure. Considering how Rild was supposed to be more powerful than Boo and Goku is able to fight him without going Super Saiyan 2 or 3, it might be conceivable that everyone has powered up so much that even Ultimate Gohan's power isn't so hot anymore. GT is kinda crazy like that.

Bardo117 wrote:Gohan was weaker than Vegeta in the series. This is very contradicting to what actually happened in the show.

Well, continuing with the above, it's possible (or at least not inherently contradictory) that Vegeta has powered up so much in the 15 years since the fight with Boo that he's now stronger than Ultimate Gohan even without a Kaioshin power-up or SSj3. An extreme idea, I know, but this is the same series where regular Goku easily outclassed perfect Cell. Even if Gohan didn't completely abandon training like he did in the years between the Cell and Boo arc, Vegeta could have simply trained harder and more often and in that way grown stronger than him in time.

Bardo117 wrote:Don't you need other-world training? Maybe when Vegeta dies, he'll get the chance to keep his body.

Nothing is ever mentioned about specifically needing to train in the afterlife to reach Super Saiyan 3. Goku says that the form is easier to maintain in the afterlife due to there being no time like in the living world, so maybe that gave him an edge in mastering the transformation, but Gotenks was able to reach the form without training in the afterlife, so obviously training there can't be the only way to get the form.
Last edited by Herms on Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: GT Perfect Files on Super Saiyans

Postby PuppetDoctor » Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:51 pm

Very interesting read. Thanks for posting/translating this Herms.

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Re: GT Perfect Files on Super Saiyans

Postby JacobYBM » Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:57 pm

Ah, forgot to mention, this directly confirms that Gokû doesn't use Super Saiyan 2 in the series. What's more it also lists Gokû's stamina as having diminished under his Super Saiyan form description. Interesting stuff, although I think the latter note fits a bit more under Super Saiyan 3.
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Re: GT Perfect Files on Super Saiyans

Postby Bardo117 » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:18 pm

Bardo117 wrote:Don't you need other-world training? Maybe when Vegeta dies, he'll get the chance to keep his body.

Nothing is ever mentioned about specifically needing to train in the afterlife to reach Super Saiyan 3. Goku says that the form is easier to maintain in the afterlife due to there being no time like in the living world, so maybe that gave him an edge in mastering the transformation, but Gotenks was able to reach the form without training in the afterlife, so obviously training there can't be the only way to get the form.[/quote]

Yeah, but Gotenks is 2 separate fighters in one. Both their powers are bound to end up at SSJ3 when combined.
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Re: GT Perfect Files on Super Saiyans

Postby Herms » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:37 pm

Yuugi's Black Magician wrote:What's more it also lists Gokû's stamina as having diminished under his Super Saiyan form description. Interesting stuff, although I think the latter note fits a bit more under Super Saiyan 3.

Maybe so, but it's kinda interesting that his diminished stamina applies to his other forms as well, not just SSj3, even if SSj3 is where the problem is most noticeable.

Bardo117 wrote:Yeah, but Gotenks is 2 separate fighters in one. Both their powers are bound to end up at SSJ3 when combined.

Not really. Goku was shocked that they were able to reach Super Saiyan 3 when fused, and he's the one who taught them the technique in the first place. And Gotenks explicitly only gained the ability to transform into a Super Saiyan 3 after training in the Room of Spirit and Time. It's by no means an automatic side effect of Fusion.
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Re: GT Perfect Files on Super Saiyans

Postby The Time Traveller » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:15 pm

Ah, it's "Demon Prince Vegeta" the most official term for Babidi Influenced Vegeta? Because I dislike the name "Majin Vegeta".

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Re: GT Perfect Files on Super Saiyans

Postby Herms » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:05 pm

The Time Traveller wrote:Ah, it's "Demon Prince Vegeta" the most official term for Babidi Influenced Vegeta? Because I dislike the name "Majin Vegeta".

I think that list in the Perfect Files is actually the only place where that form of Vegeta is called “Demon Prince Vegeta”. In Daizenshuu 2 and 4 he’s called “Destructive Prince Vegeta”. In the games, Ultimate Battle 22 call him “Evil Warrior Vegeta”, Legends calls him merely “Super Vegeta (Brainwashed)”, Legendary Super Warriors calls him “Destructive Prince Vegeta” like in the daizenshuu, and I think all the recent games call him “Majin Vegeta”.
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Re: GT Perfect Files on Super Saiyans

Postby Bardo117 » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:20 pm

Herms wrote:
Yuugi's Black Magician wrote:What's more it also lists Gokû's stamina as having diminished under his Super Saiyan form description. Interesting stuff, although I think the latter note fits a bit more under Super Saiyan 3.

Maybe so, but it's kinda interesting that his diminished stamina applies to his other forms as well, not just SSj3, even if SSj3 is where the problem is most noticeable.

Bardo117 wrote:Yeah, but Gotenks is 2 separate fighters in one. Both their powers are bound to end up at SSJ3 when combined.

Not really. Goku was shocked that they were able to reach Super Saiyan 3 when fused, and he's the one who taught them the technique in the first place. And Gotenks explicitly only gained the ability to transform into a Super Saiyan 3 after training in the Room of Spirit and Time. It's by no means an automatic side effect of Fusion.


Well, Vegeta was surprised that they could turn Super Saiyan in the first place so Goku being surprised isn't that much of evidence.
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Re: GT Perfect Files on Super Saiyans

Postby Savage68 » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:23 pm

I think I'm even more confused after reading that than I was before... My baseless theories on GT, ruined. :cry:

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Re: GT Perfect Files on Super Saiyans

Postby Bussani » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:31 pm

Herms wrote:Super Saiyan 2
A type of warrior who possess power surpassing Super Saiyan 1 in power, speed, and all other points!! However, it seems to not provide a rapid increase, so after Goku awakened to Super Saiyan 3, he would often skip over 2 and transform straight from 1 to 3!!

Hm, that kind of fits with the Super Exciting Guide's idea of SSJ2 being double SSJ1 and SSJ3 being quadrupedal SSJ2, don't you think?
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Re: GT Perfect Files on Super Saiyans

Postby nathantheguitarist » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:59 pm

Herms wrote:Will new Super Saiyans emerge?
Pan has inherited Saiyan blood and posses high battle power!! If the conditions introduced on the right-hand page [see above] are met, Pan and even Vegeta’s daughter Bra should be able to transform into Super Saiyans!! When the evilest of dangers arrives, perhaps the first female Super Saiyans in history will appear!?

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Re: GT Perfect Files on Super Saiyans

Postby Nazi Cola » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:42 am

Wait, if it says Goku didn't use SSj2, then wtf was that form he used against Rilldo?
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Re: GT Perfect Files on Super Saiyans

Postby Cipher » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:45 am

Interesting to see that the "Golden Oozaru is the legendary Super Saiyan" theory has roots in an official publication. I always thought it was just fan speculation.


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