Why would you want a new Draon Ball HD remaster, and why aren't Dragon Boxes and FUNimation's season sets good enough?

[sangofe]

I'll start saying why I'd want it.

First and foremost, I want all of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT in clear, color corrected high resolution video, because it's much more comfortable to watch than in SD video.

The Dragon Boxes weren't too bad, but they're still in a resolution that make them not look the best on today's TVs and during action scenes. Plus the colors aren't quite right.

The Level sets were a good start although they had crushed blacks.

FUNimation's season sets are horrible because they don't respect the intended aspect ratio, but also because they destroy details with their DVNR encoding and "remastering" methods. They're also horrible over saturated.

With a good remaster, we'd have high resolution video for the entire series with correct colors. Imagine watching that on a 60 inch TV!

Also, none of previous releases have had clear original audio - this can be fixed if Toei, or FUNimation want to. (I know FUNimation's been sent audio for DBZ and DBGT at this point).

[simtek34]

DB and DBZ, Broadcast Audio, Level remaster minus Crushed Blacks, All NEP's where they belong, Toei gets the DBZ #1/DB#153 Preview out of the vault.


Did you just steal my thread!!! viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37958

[sangofe]

DB and DBZ, Broadcast Audio, Level remaster minus Crushed Blacks, All NEP's where they belong, Toei gets the DBZ #1/DB#153 Preview out of the vault.


Did you just steal my thread!!! viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37958

Why do you want it though, and why aren't current releases good enough? And no, I didn't steal your thread. This is to point out why you'd want a new remaster, and why the releases out there aren't good enough.

[TheGreatness25]

If I had to venture a guess, I'd say it's because people want to have the series 100% exactly the way it was created and "meant to be seen." That's something that Funimation really loosely threw around, but that was so untrue that I think a lot of fans feel insulted by that.

Personally, the Dragon Boxes are good enough. I just want closure with the series, which will never happen if I keep buying release after release after release.

[genjosanzo8]

i want a true HD release like now sd is outdated and like technologies and 16mm film allow it, like everyone i want complete stuffs where they need to be for whole series and movies

before talking about technical why dragon box and funimation are not good enough::
- Dragon Box have altered colors and some slight crop compared to the levels sets which was the original cropping, and some episodes are too bright or too dark
- Dragon Box audios are muffled in mono instead of the clear broadcast audio
- Funimation seasons sets have bad audios too, miss next episode preview and have wrong ratio aspect (16/9 where it should be fullscreen 4/3), too much destructive DVNR altering the original footage, crushed black and lot of brightness

What i want
- HD uncropped scan with grain kept for the whole series and movies all in 4/3 fullscreen
- color restoration to make dragon ball looking like production cels
- audio restauration of the broadcast audio or if someone have them the best audio source (5.1 with funi audio and bgm only tracks)
- Grain Preserve, great attention to bright and dark details for complete episode (opening episode nep ending) and also all versions of opening ending like on animax (1 for ep 1-2-3 , 1 for 4to16, 1for ep 17-21, 1 for 22to117, 1 for 118-199, 1 for 200-201, 1 for 202to 291)
- Good compression in the final product to prevent encode artifact
- all teasers, nep cm, tv spot, all versions of creditless footage , new year special, summer vacation special etc....all dragon ball material as an extra

[DHM211]

It would be great if Toei could remaster the movies. Seeing as how great the 4 episodes of Kai that were on 35mm film looked, I would love to see all the movies look that good.

[sangofe]

It would be great if Toei could remaster the movies. Seeing as how great the 4 episodes of Kai that were on 35mm film looked, I would love to see all the movies look that good.

Yeah, and in 4:3, especially the DB movies and DBZ Movie 1.

[DHM211]

It would be great if Toei could remaster the movies. Seeing as how great the 4 episodes of Kai that were on 35mm film looked, I would love to see all the movies look that good.

Yeah, and in 4:3, especially the DB movies and DBZ Movie 1.

I can't speak for the first 3 Dragon Ball movies but weren't the Z movies and Dragon Ball movie 4 made for 16:9.

[Danfun64]

All of the pre BOG movies were animated in 4:3 but with 16:9 in mind. In fact, since the DB intro wasn't animated with 16:9 in mind there are instances where the picture is lowered or raised, with noticeable letterboxing in open matte prints.

[simtek34]

It would be great if Toei could remaster the movies. Seeing as how great the 4 episodes of Kai that were on 35mm film looked, I would love to see all the movies look that good.

Wait... I know the Z equivalents, but which Kai episode were on 35 millimeter film?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Funimation's Season Sets aren't good enough because they made the series worse than it would have been if they'd left well enough alone. Not only that, they went out of their way to make things worse on multiple fronts.

Why do I want a new HD remaster? Well, The Season Sets are irrideamably terrible, both halves of Kai have enormous, immersion-breaking flaws (though I'd honestly be okay if we got the whole series remastered in Kai 1.0 style), and Funimation canceled the only one of the lot that wasn't fatally misguided. Quite frankly, although I dream of a perfect release, I'd be perfectly fine with just a tolerable one.

Hell, we already know that the Dragon Box masters are in HD, since that's what they based Kai on. I'd be fine with a permanent international release of those.

[sangofe]

It would be great if Toei could remaster the movies. Seeing as how great the 4 episodes of Kai that were on 35mm film looked, I would love to see all the movies look that good.

Wait... I know the Z equivalents, but which Kai episode were on 35 millimeter film?

Some episode during Nail vs Freeza, I believe, or some other early Freeza saga episodes.

[Danfun64]

we already know that the Dragon Box masters are in HD, since that's what they based Kai on.

Not 100% what the story is for Kai 2.0, but Kai 1.0 is clearly not based off the Dragon Box masters, but rather a whole new transfer as discussed here. Regardless, I'm certain that the Dragon Box masters are in SD. On a similar note, I heard somewhere that the Dragon Box masters of the movies are based off 16mm film...somethings, while the Funi Double Features are, of course, based off 35mm prints. Is that true?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Not 100% what the story is for Kai 2.0, but Kai 1.0 is clearly not based off the Dragon Box masters, but rather a whole new transfer...

Noted, although Kai sure looks a lot more like a corrected Dragon Box than I'd expect, considering. Either way, it was just an example of a shortcut that I wouldn't mind accepting.

[Robo4900]

Let me clear up the misconceptions here...

Aside from the movies, and a few episodes of Z in the Freeza arc, all of Dragon Ball(That's Dragon Ball, Z, and GT) only exists on 16mm film.
The Dragon Box masters were only scanned in standard definition.
Kai used completely new scans of all the material in it.

The crushed blacks in the Levels were down to the poor film stock Toei gave Funimation. Nothing they can do about that, although the problem improves as the series progresses.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

It would be great if Toei could remaster the movies. Seeing as how great the 4 episodes of Kai that were on 35mm film looked, I would love to see all the movies look that good.

Movies would look +- like this: http://www.mediafire.com/file/q27fd6ejf ... 80p%29.mkv

All of the pre BOG movies were animated in 4:3 but with 16:9 in mind. In fact, since the DB intro wasn't animated with 16:9 in mind there are instances where the picture is lowered or raised, with noticeable letterboxing in open matte prints.

OK. Let's forget about what we have read or heard. Look at those screenshots:[spoiler]

[/spoiler][spoiler]1. http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/160778
2. http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/160779
3. http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/160780
4. http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/160781
5. http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/161888
6. http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/161889
7. http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/161890[/spoiler]
What do you see?

Kai used completely new scans of all the material in it.

There were times, when I didn't believe that Kai came from the new transfer. Mostly because of how blurred the first screenshots I saw were. My friend did color-correction and upscale of Dragon Box, which looked almost exactly the same as Kai.
I acknowledged this fact after reading article about Kai remaster, which contained pictures of the scanner and pictures from the editing room. Also, people started posting screenshots from Kai with restored dark details.

The crushed blacks in the Levels were down to the poor film stock Toei gave Funimation.

I know, but... can we be sure? Maybe the contrast was tweaked improperly? Look at dark colors on the Levels - they are waaay darker than dark colors in Kai. It's obvious that darker ones are black in this situation.
But the version with films being like this is more likely true. Steve Franko said that the main goal of the entire project was being honest to the original film prints. If they were honest about everything else, why shouldn't they be honest with contrast and dark detail? Especially when the problem is almost nonexistent in later episodes (when compared to Dragon Boxes).

[Jinzoningen MULE]

The crushed blacks in the Levels were down to the poor film stock Toei gave Funimation.

I know, but... can we be sure? Maybe the contrast was tweaked improperly? Look at dark colors on the Levels - they are waaay darker than dark colors in Kai. It's obvious that darker ones are black in this situation.

We can definitely be sure, the loss of dark detail in the Levels is 1:1 with that of both the Orange Bricks and Season Blu-rays (the three releases that have used Funimation's own film, if you aren't familiar). Additionally, those 3 releases have several other identical quirks in the early episodes that's only present in Funimation's film. Toe I definitely gave Funi a notably inferior source to work with.

[Ringworm128]

The Dragon Boxes weren't too bad, but they're still in a resolution that make them not look the best on today's TVs and during action scenes. Plus the colors aren't quite right.

I personally think the Dragonboxes looking bad on modern TV's is completely overblown. I've tested out the Dragonboxes on many different flat screens and most of the time they look great when played though a good upscaler like the PS3. The only time I found the footage didn't fair well was on a huge 65 inch plasma. But even then, I was incredibly close to the screen, had I sat back it probably would have looked fine.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

The Dragon Boxes weren't too bad, but they're still in a resolution that make them not look the best on today's TVs and during action scenes. Plus the colors aren't quite right.

I personally think the Dragonboxes looking bad on modern TV's is completely overblown. I've tested out the Dragonboxes on many different flat screens and most of the time they look great when played though a good upscaler like the PS3. The only time I found the footage didn't fair well was on a huge 65 inch plasma. But even then, I was incredibly close to the screen, had I sat back it probably would have looked fine.

They look fine 9 times out of 10, but an HD version would undeniably be better. You also have to think about the future, there will come a time when 480p just won't cut it on modern TV's anymore. Thank god we aren't to the point where we may as well throw away our DVD's yet, but that time is not far off by any stretch.

[Ringworm128]

The Dragon Boxes weren't too bad, but they're still in a resolution that make them not look the best on today's TVs and during action scenes. Plus the colors aren't quite right.

I personally think the Dragonboxes looking bad on modern TV's is completely overblown. I've tested out the Dragonboxes on many different flat screens and most of the time they look great when played though a good upscaler like the PS3. The only time I found the footage didn't fair well was on a huge 65 inch plasma. But even then, I was incredibly close to the screen, had I sat back it probably would have looked fine.

They look fine 9 times out of 10, but an HD version would undeniably be better. You also have to think about the future, there will come a time when 480p just won't cut it on modern TV's anymore. Thank god we aren't to the point where we may as well throw away our DVD's yet, but that time is not far off by any stretch.

If the Game Boy's tiny 144p resolution can be neatly scaled to 1080p, we can still get more out of 480p. Even when TV scalers drop good 480p support to focus on 720, 1080 or even 2160p images there will still probably be a good albeit expensive external scaler that focuses on 480i/p for 8K and up TV's.