When does Freeza Saga end?

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Hujio
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Re: When does Freeza Saga end?

Post by Hujio » Mon May 10, 2010 3:10 pm

This question seems to be brought up more and more lately, which is fine. Before I get into my explanation, here's a "quick" run-down, which I've posted before, of how both Toei and Shueisha "officially" break-up the arcs:


Shueisha / Manga (source: Daizenshuu 2)
[Remember, it's only one series, so no DBZ!]

DragonBall; 15 arcs
  • Search for the Dragonballs (chapters 001-023)
  • Training with Kame-sennin (chapters 024-031)
  • 21st Tenkaichi Budoukai (chapters 032-054)
  • Red Ribbon Army (chapters 055-096)
  • Uranai Baba (chapters 097-112)
  • 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai (chapters 113-134)
  • Piccolo Daimao (chapters 135-165)
  • 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai (chapters 166-194)
  • Saiyan (chapters 195-242)
  • Freeza (chapters 243-337)
  • Artificial Human (chapters 338-356)
  • Cell (chapters 357-420)
  • High School (chapters 421-429)
  • 25th Tenkaichi Budoukai (chapters 430-445)
  • Majin Buu (chapters 446-519)

Shueisha / Manga (sources: DB Landmark and Forever)
[These guidebooks use essentially the same divisions as Daizenshuu 2, but are a tad different, so be sure to look closely.]

DragonBall; 15 arcs
  • Search for the Dragonballs (chapters 001-014)
  • Training with Kame-sennin (chapters 015-032)
  • 21st Tenkaichi Budoukai (chapters 033-054)
  • Red Ribbon Army (chapters 055-096)
  • Uranai Baba (chapters 097-111)
  • 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai (chapters 112-134)
  • Piccolo Daimao (chapters 135-164)
  • 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai (chapters 165-194)
  • Saiyan (chapters 195-243)
  • Freeza (chapters 244-329)
  • Artificial Human (chapters 330-357)
  • Cell (chapters 358-420)
  • High School (chapters 421-429)
  • 25th Tenkaichi Budoukai (chapters 430-444)
  • Majin Buu (chapters 445-519)

Shueisha / Anime (sources: Daizenshuu 3, 5, & 10)
[The TV Animation daizenshuu split up each arc into smaller acts, but I'm not going to list all those.]

DragonBall; 5 arcs
  • Son Gokou (episodes 001-028; 11 acts)
  • Red Ribbon Army (episodes 029-068; 10 acts)
  • 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai (episodes 069-101; 9 acts)
  • Piccolo Daimao (episodes 102-132; 7 acts)
  • 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai (episodes 133-153; 7 acts)
DragonBall Z; 12 arcs
  • Attack of the Saiyan (episodes 001-035; 10 acts)
  • Battle on Planet Namek (episodes 036-074; 11 acts)
  • Terrible Emperor Freeza (episodes 075-107; 10 acts)
  • Fight with Garlic Jr. (episodes 108-125; 7 acts)
  • Android No. 16~20 (episodes 126-147; 7 acts)
  • Over the Super Saiyan (episodes 148-165; 7 acts)
  • Beginning of the Cell Games (episodes 166-194; 8 acts)
  • Anoyoichi Budoukai (episodes 195-219; 8 acts)
  • Majin Boo Returns (episodes 220-237; 5 acts)
  • Appearance of the Super Saiyan III (episodes 238-254; 7 acts)
  • The Final Fighter, Vegetto (episodes 255-268; 5 acts)
  • The Final Battle (episodes 269-291; 6 acts)
DragonBall GT
  • Nothing about the GT story arcs has ever been officially classified by Shueisha. The GT Perfect Files don't organize the episodes by arc, but by the location of each episode.

Toei Animation (source: Official Websites)

DragonBall; 6 arcs
  • Encounter with Bulma (episodes 001-013)
  • 21st Tenkaichi Budoukai (episodes 014-028)
  • The Search for the Four-Star-Ball (episodes 029-068)
  • 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai (episodes 069-101)
  • Daimao's Revival (episodes 102-132)
  • 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai (episodes 133-153)
DragonBall Z; 4 arcs
  • Saiyan (episodes 001-035)
  • Freeza (episodes 36-117)
  • Cell (episodes 118-199)
  • Majin Buu (episodes 200-291)
DragonBall GT; 4 arcs
  • Dark Dragonballs (episodes 001-022)
  • Baby (episodes 023-040)
  • Super 17 (episodes 041-047)
  • Evil Dragon (episodes 048-064)

Toei Animation (source: Dragon Box)
[Just like Shueisha, you'll note that Toei isn't all that consistent either.]

DragonBall; 11 arcs
  • Goku and Bulma (001-013)
  • Kame-sen Training (014-018)
  • 21st Tenkaichi Budoukai (019-029)
  • Red Ribbon (030-068)
  • Uranai Baba (069-078)
  • Training on the Road (079-083)
  • 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai (084-101)
  • Piccolo Daimao (102-123)
  • Heavenly Training (124-132)
  • 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai (133-148)
  • The Wedding Dress in Flames (149-153)
DragonBall Z; 9 arcs
  • Saiyan (episodes 001-035)
  • Namek (episodes 036-074)
  • Freeza (episodes 075-107)
  • Garlic Jr. (episode 108-117)
  • Artificial Human (episodes 118-147)
  • Cell (episodes 148-194)
  • Ano Yo-ichi Budoukai (195-199)
  • High School (episodes 200-209)
  • Buu (episodes 210-291)
DragonBall GT; 4 arcs
  • Searching Space (001-022)
  • Super Baby (023-041)
  • Super No. 17 (042-047)
  • Evil Dragon (048-064)
Now, as to exactly how "official" these are is up for debate, since they all sort of conflict with each other. For instance, you can see that Shueisha lists the Freeza arc as ending at Z episode 107 in the anime, but lists it as ending at chapter 329 (the Z Warriors are revived with the dragonballs) or chapter 337 (the artificial humans first appear) for the manga. On top of all that, they put the Trunks arc in the Garlic Jr. arc for the anime (?!). So you can see how consistent they are (those flip-floppers). As for Toei, they seem to just lump things together in much larger arcs, again with a loose consistency.

You'll note that on Kanzentai we (I, mostly) use a mix of all of them in some way. I personally split the series up into main arcs, and then divide some of those into smaller sub-arcs. That said, I have been debating lately about breaking up the Z story arcs a little more on the site, just so the pages aren't quite so long and will load faster. I know the Japanese Wikipedia DragonBall pages do split things up fairly similar to our current pages. Basically, everyone splits the series' up a little differently, pertaining to their specific tastes. You'll also note that FUNimation even splits the series up differently than the Japanese companies, and of course they call them sagas, which has always bothered me. I know that may sound "elitist" of me, but it's just a fact. The definition of a saga is "A long detailed report" which is typically a narrative. I'd say neither really applies to DragonBall. Whereas the definition of a story arc is "An extended or continuing storyline in episodic storytelling media". I guess it's just one of those things that annoys me, although not as much as making up seasons that don't exist.

Anyway, as long as someone has the Freeza arc ending at a logical point, like right after Namek explodes (episode 107) or sometime around Trunks arrival (episode 125), I don't really see a problem with it. It's one of those funny arcs that falls into a transition from one arc to the other arc, but is still an arc of its own merit. That's why it's so hard to definitively place it in one or the other. However, it seems that the consensus is that the Trunks arc fits better in the Artificial Human arc, especially in the anime. In the manga it's much easier to have it in the Freeza arc, since the Garlic Jr. arc doesn't interfere.

I love how every time there's a discussion about the division of story arcs, I update this list with another source and make it even longer.
Last edited by Hujio on Mon May 10, 2010 11:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: When does Freeza Saga end?

Post by KakaR0T » Mon May 10, 2010 3:16 pm

Wasn't the whole series suppose to end at episode 107 originally?

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Re: When does Freeza Saga end?

Post by Hujio » Mon May 10, 2010 4:45 pm

KakaR0T wrote:Wasn't the whole series suppose to end at episode 107 originally?
No, not this rumor again! We've been over this before in various threads, and this is something Mike has been meaning to add to the "Rumor Guide". There is no evidence to support the rumor that the series was going to end with the Freeza arc. Toriyama never said anything along those lines, no production materials hint at it, no references ever point to a legitimate source, etc. There's nothing ever said about it. It's all wild fan speculation. As I've said before, this has to be by-and-far the biggest baseless rumor ever in the history of DragonBall. It has been quoted as gospel on every forum across the internet, I'm sure in multiple languages, since as long as I can remember. Just because a friend of a friend heard it on the internet, doesn't mean it's true, especially if they have no evidence!

@KakaR0T: Just so we're clear, I'm not mad at you at all, just at the rumor. Sorry if it seemed like I lashing out at you, because I don't mean it that way at all. I truly hate this rumor, if you couldn't tell.
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Re: When does Freeza Saga end?

Post by Vegeta Jr » Mon May 10, 2010 4:49 pm

The scene where Goku literally blows up kind of indicates his demise.

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Re: When does Freeza Saga end?

Post by KakaR0T » Mon May 10, 2010 9:04 pm

Hujio wrote:
KakaR0T wrote:Wasn't the whole series suppose to end at episode 107 originally?
No, not this rumor again! We've been over this before in various threads, and this is something Mike has been meaning to add to the "Rumor Guide". There is no evidence to support the rumor that the series was going to end with the Freeza arc. Toriyama never said anything along those lines, no production materials hint at it, no references ever point to a legitimate source, etc. There's nothing ever said about it. It's all wild fan speculation. As I've said before, this has to be by-and-far the biggest baseless rumor ever in the history of DragonBall. It has been quoted as gospel on every forum across the internet, I'm sure in multiple languages, since as long as I can remember. Just because a friend of a friend heard it on the internet, doesn't mean it's true, especially if they have no evidence!

@KakaR0T: Just so we're clear, I'm not mad at you at all, just at the rumor. Sorry if it seemed like I lashing out at you, because I don't mean it that way at all. I truly hate this rumor, if you couldn't tell.
No prob. I was just curious because someone had told me that it was suppose to end there once and to me it did seem like a nice place to end the series. I just wanted to make sure if it was true or not. But I see now that there is no definitive answer to that question. It was something that was never confirmed nor proven false.

For me, 107 was the end of the "Epic Dragonball Z" because after the Frieza arc, everybody and their mother was able to go super saiyajin and even that wasn't good enough anymore. I think only Kakarot should've been able to go super saiyan (or at least not have goten and trunks be able to do it so early). In my opinion, DBZ wasn't as epic as it was during the Namek/Frieza arc.

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Re: When does Freeza Saga end?

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Sat May 15, 2010 10:22 am

Hujio wrote:
KakaR0T wrote:As I've said before, this has to be by-and-far the biggest baseless rumor ever in the history of DragonBall.
It's not actually baseless. To many people, it seemed like a good place to end the series, what with Goku becoming the Super Saiyan of legend, the final epic battle between him and Freeza and then dying in an epic explosion of Planet Namek. With the main character dead, it would seem right for the series to end, wouldn't it?

Everything afterwards just doesn't seem linked to the previous story, rather an add-on. Just like how people say Toriyama originally intended to end the series with the Cell Arc, but had to continue because the Japanese fanboys wanted Goku to come back (thus leading Toriyama into creating a final conclusion he didn't really have the heart for).
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.

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