Official DBZ 2015 Movie Power Discussion: "Resurrection F"

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

It's cool. Looking back at my posts, I can see why it came off that way.

Lol, yeah, they were holding-back, so that's possible. Btw, was Gohan a Super Saiyan when Freeza hit him with that blast?

[Analytical Delusion]

I'm trying to wrap my head around this Gohan thing. So BoG, I believe, took place 5 years after Buu was defeated. Gohan, while drunk, has no difficulty transforming into his "ultimate" state. Now, maybe a year later (well, between 0 and 3 years, since Beerus is still sleeping), it seems he's completely lost his physique, and isn't sure if he can go SSJ?

Gohan was supposed to be a Super Saiyan in BoG too, they just changed it because fans started complaining and later made the excuse, that they were always going to correct and only originally had it as SS Gohan due to marketing.
Gohan not even being sure he can go Super Saiyan makes it sound like he's much weaker than he was in the Buu Arc, maybe even weaker than his 25th Budokai self.
It doesn't seem like we'll get more appearances of Ultimate Gohan in the near-future.

4) Shisami was a guy who was recruited after Freeza came back. Possibly after the training (some mentioned that he might have trained with Freeza, though I don't know how I feel about this), since word of Freeza's power could have spread throughout space.

I think Julian and Kei have confirmed Shisami was a part of Sorbet's army, before Freeza was brought back.
Also this wouldn't be the first time Piccolo was caught off-guard by a much weaker opponent. Dr. Gero almost managed to kill him after all.

The last issue is the 1.37 million power level or whatever. I think it was mentioned that Freeza suggested that before his training, that he'd reach that level? In that case we can just say he underestimated himself, though if he does know Goku defeated Buu, unless he had no clue of Buu's power, it can't be enough.

Yeah, it seems really weird.

Thanks for the response...

Gohan - Him only being able to turn SSJ in BoG would've made a lot more sense. It doesn't make much sense to me that he'd drop off between BoG/FnF, but not between Buu/BoG, so I'm hoping either he underestimated himself, or didn't have time to transform against Freeza.

Shisami - Ah, thanks. Hoping then that there isn't much of a fight. Piccolo getting pummeled would require a good deal of suspension of disbelief on my part.

[Duo]

Gohan - Him only being able to turn SSJ in BoG would've made a lot more sense. It doesn't make much sense to me that he'd drop off between BoG/FnF, but not between Buu/BoG, so I'm hoping either he underestimated himself, or didn't have time to transform against Freeza.

I feel that's the bigger problem than whether or not Gohan is even able to lose his Ultimate state at all. The time difference doesn't seem consistent. Also, the minor traits on Gohan that changed when he turned Ultimate never went away throughout the rest of the manga, so it seemed implied that he never lost it. I guess my fan-theory at this point is that Gohan's grasp on the Ultimate state has been slipping and that he now needs Super Saiyan in order to fully power up to that level. That can also justify his performance in Battle of Gods by saying he hadn't realized there was a power slip taking place at that time?

[jcogginsa]

Gohan - Him only being able to turn SSJ in BoG would've made a lot more sense. It doesn't make much sense to me that he'd drop off between BoG/FnF, but not between Buu/BoG, so I'm hoping either he underestimated himself, or didn't have time to transform against Freeza.

I feel that's the bigger problem than whether or not Gohan is even able to lose his Ultimate state at all. The time difference doesn't seem consistent. Also, the minor traits on Gohan that changed when he turned Ultimate never went away throughout the rest of the manga, so it seemed implied that he never lost it. I guess my fan-theory at this point is that Gohan's grasp on the Ultimate state has been slipping and that he now needs Super Saiyan in order to fully power up to that level. That can also justify his performance in Battle of Gods by saying he hadn't realized there was a power slip taking place at that time?

It's a magic power up. Maybe if you don't train, you lose it all at once after a certain time

[Duo]

It's a magic power up. Maybe if you don't train, you lose it all at once after a certain time

I would be absolutely fine with that as well, if only someone in the film would acknowledge/state that. Thought I really just do not understand why he has to be a Super Saiyan at all. It's not that huge of a deal, I just preferred Gohan being unique when it came to that. I'm more annoyed that there's some new Super Saiyan state to try and figure out. If anything, it would be nice if information on it and Super Saiyan God was always left vague so that debates don't have to take place.

[ekrolo2]

It's a magic power up. Maybe if you don't train, you lose it all at once after a certain time

I would be absolutely fine with that as well, if only someone in the film would acknowledge/state that. Thought I really just do not understand why he has to be a Super Saiyan at all. It's not that huge of a deal, I just preferred Gohan being unique when it came to that. I'm more annoyed that there's some new Super Saiyan state to try and figure out. If anything, it would be nice if information on it and Super Saiyan God was always left vague so that debates don't have to take place.

Them ever explaining anything would mean that thought was put into the actual movie, and considering the fact the whole thing only happens thanks to horrid contrivances I doubt any proper explanation will be offered. What little internal logic Toriyama used to have with fighting power, transformations and training is completely gone.

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

So, apparently Freeza states that his combat power has reached 1.37 million due to training.

If that's legit, have fun trying to make any sense out of it

It could be 1,370,000 Kilis!!!

[TobyS]

Even when he was rusty as fuck after the Cell games he could still turn SS2 and was speculated to be able to get that back what he lost with a simple rage boost.

This is so much worse and his slacking caused problems last time it seems unlikely someone smart and reliable as Gohan wouldn't train as insurance to protect his family.

Really seems negligent and shitty that he is now a weak ass SS1 and hasn't learnt from his previous mistake.

[Analytical Delusion]

So...any new details about Piccolo's fight with Shisami, or Gohan's reaction when he sees Freeza (does he try to power up at all, etc.)? Still trying to make sense out of the two of them...

As two years have passed since BoG I guess that gives some leeway if Gohan is to lose mystic/ultimate (though he should've during the first five years post-Buu, you'd think), but still, hoping it doesn't disrupt DB's continuity.

Hoping Julian was correct in speculating that there will be an extended cut, to flesh some of this stuff out.

[buutenks]

Hmm,gohan going super saiyan even in bog was a bit off,since in the manga,the old kai clearly says to become the ultimate warrior he should try and transform into a super saiyan,gohan tries this and he just powers up and becomes the 'ultimate' warrior.So he shouldnt have been able to go ssj.

Now why didnt he go ultimate in RoF?Its odd,i mean vs beerus he went with his mystic form,so very odd.

[ZombieVito]

How strong do you guys think Sorbet is?

[Hugo Boss]

Hmm,gohan going super saiyan even in bog was a bit off,since in the manga,the old kai clearly says to become the ultimate warrior he should try and transform into a super saiyan,gohan tries this and he just powers up and becomes the 'ultimate' warrior.So he shouldnt have been able to go ssj.

Now why didnt he go ultimate in RoF?Its odd,i mean vs beerus he went with his mystic form,so very odd.

It's not very clear if Super Saiyan was permanently replaced by that form. When Gohan went Ultimate it was said to him to try the gist of Super Saiyan and throw it in a kiai. Look at how he messed with the surroundings. Maybe this is the key difference between them. Also, we don't know if Gohan was meant to be Ultimate against Beerus. In the trailers he does appear as a Super Saiyan. Maybe in RF Gohan past the point of maintaining his prime, since he became a father and doctor at the same time.

How strong do you guys think Sorbet is?

As strong as Babidi, maybe?

[ZombieVito]

A BP of 2?

I guess I have to keep tradition of giving all really short villains (Babidi, Pilaf) a BP of 2.

[DBZAOTA482]

A BP of 2?

I guess I have to keep tradition of giving all really short villains (Babidi, Pilaf) a BP of 2.

That's too high. It made them as strong as Bulma and I'm sure she could kick their asses in a hand-in-hand fight.

[RandomGuy96]

He's a being of ambiguous power with a Beerus-level ring.

[ZombieVito]

A BP of 2?

I guess I have to keep tradition of giving all really short villains (Babidi, Pilaf) a BP of 2.

That's too high. It made them as strong as Bulma and I'm sure she could kick their asses in a hand-in-hand fight.

If I would give a BP to her it will be 3 or 3.5.

[DBZAOTA482]

A BP of 2?

I guess I have to keep tradition of giving all really short villains (Babidi, Pilaf) a BP of 2.

That's too high. It made them as strong as Bulma and I'm sure she could kick their asses in a hand-in-hand fight.

If I would give a BP to her it will be 3 or 3.5.

Nah, Bulma's weak even by human standards. The average is like about 2.5-5 for humans.

I'd have Babidi and Pilaf as strong as a scared Saiyan Saga Gohan (1).

[ZombieVito]

I really don't see them being as weak as a baby.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Battle Powers are a representation ki. Babidi could be in the millions to have the energy to use his spells or whatever. Likewise, Bluma can be super weak physically and still be 5, 6 7, or whatever.

[DBZAOTA482]

I really don't see them being as weak as a baby.

But they're the size of a "baby" and have no strength feats.