I've been thinking about making some youtube content, but currently I have what I want to say on Google docs. This could be the script for a video with me cycling through the images or I could leave it as it is. In either case I thought I'd chuck it on Kanzenshuu for a soft launch, or even a little peer review by other mega nerds like me!
I mainly am going to talk about the timelines but I wanted to clear up some myths in the fandom, that would get in the way when discussing what goes down in the other timelines. Any constructive criticism welcomed!
Dragonball Lore Deep Dive Part 1: Cosmology
So this is the start of a short multi-part series I’m working on. While there’s a few decent DB Youtubers and a lot of good guides and websites like Kanzenshuu, there’s a couple of things that don’t get talked about enough, or when they do there’s often myths or misconceptions, or weird hate from those who don’t like Super kinda messing up the discussion.
So what my weird special interest is, that I really want to talk about, is the fates of other Timelines, especially the “Unseen” Timeline. However, as the meme goes “Dragonball fans can’t read”.
(Got this image off r/ningen but that user didn’t invent the can’t read/didn’t watch the show meme)
With this sad fact in mind, (sorry for being mean!) and the fact that guide books, interviews and other ancillary material don’t get translated outside of fan sites, I feel like, to be able to have a good Discussion on these topics as a fandom, we first need to clarify some details so we can all be on the same page and not talk cross purposes.
So let's talk Cosmology:
I like this one, it’s from a guide book afaik.
Kanzenshuu have a really great guide here:
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/gods-and-cosmos/universe/
If you want to learn more, go read that guide, as I’m mainly going to talk about what I consider important and relevant to the other topics I want to get to later, and use it as a springboard to talk about myths and misconceptions right now.
So the bottom half of the ball is The *Living* Universe, this is where the Earth (Dragon World), Namek and other such planets are. This image nicely captures the plot point that Namek is really really far from Earth. The living universe being covered up, looking like ceramic, is a nice artistic choice perhaps due to the fact that they haven’t ever filled out every planet, and to show it’s not directly connected to the afterlife. It’s kind of odd to think the universe is “below hell” because Greek and Judeo christian mythology always present it to us as the literal “underworld”.
The only way “up” there normally is to die, we all know the Check in Station (Emna-Daioh’s). Normally when you die your soul appears in the afterlife as a puffy powerless cloud, you join a line of souls and wait your turn to be judged by Emna who sends you to Hell or up to Heaven.
Now one thing casual fans get confused about is that the DB afterlife is, again, not like the Judeo Christian one, with eternal suffering or being by God's side eternally.
It follows more of a real world Buddhist system, where souls are reincarnated eventually. You don’t remember your past life, your soul is just laundered and reused basically.
As far as I know it seems some “ok” souls can be reincarnated instantly, I don’t think it’s a case of anyone who avoids Hell gets to Heaven. Reincarnation or a short stay in Hell is probably the norm. I presume the souls in heaven can eventually have their fill and choose to be reincarnated.
Those in Hell are kept there and tortured until they repent from their evil ways, allowing their reincarnation.
I read an “Alternate Universe fan fiction” once that started great, but completely shat the bed when it had Gohan self destruct versus Freeza and get sent to hell because suicide is a sin. Chichi leaves Goku over it… yeah weird catholic guilt nonsense is triesome irl, lets at least keep that crap outta DB please. So you do get these weird projections and assumptions made by the fandom when they don’t know this stuff.
One thing the fandom ignores or misses, is that It’s very rare to have your body in the afterlife. There’s basically two scenarios when this can happen:
You are given a body, a deity like Kami-sama teleports to the check in station, and restores your body around your soul, even then you wouldn’t be allowed to go to Heaven or Hell with it, without Emma's say so. (1) North Kaio-Sama seemingly also restored his, Goku’s and Bubbles bodies when Cell self destructs and kills them. Emma can also do it as well (2), but this doesn’t happen by default, all three of these cases involve a deity.
Check out these panels from the Manga. Kami restored Goku’s original body and presumably stuffed his soul that was in the queue back in it, but he’s still dead, and has a Halo to show it.
Notice here that Goku has enough achievements to go to Heaven, but he wasn’t automatically given a body, Kami had to intervene and do it. He has to seek permission not to go to Heaven, Hell (or presumably be reincarnated) and seek out Kaio Sama instead.
And here’s Emna doing it for Vegeta due to the threat of Boo.
In the Cell saga, when Goku dies saving the planet from Cell (extra selfless because he could have saved himself). He already has a body when he gets to the check in station, presumably granted by Kaio-sama. (3)
Notice he gets to *Keep* his body in heaven. He still needs to have a body made, (perhaps Emna could whip up a body for good people who have need of one, Martial Artists for example, upon request) but it’s a special case that you get to do both, have one made and get to keep it indefinitely.
You can also already be in a body, in the afterlife, and are then wished back to life but without being teleported back to the living realm first. This happened to Goku before the saiyan attack on earth.
Or the other way, Kaioshins could use Kaikai to teleport themselves and others there while alive. Shunkan Idō teleportation, like Goku has, can also be used to teleport there if a large enough ki was detectable, as we see Goku teleport to Kaio’s with relative ease. Even in this case you start as a puffy cloud l, get your body, and then get wished back to life, keeping the same body. But the key thing here is outside the possible exception of Elder Kaioshin, you start your unlife as a puffy cloud soul and then must seek some temporary or permanent body after the fact.
The key takeaway is that:
Access to heaven has its own criteria.
Someone being given a body at the check in, or for use at Kaios, or for Emnas convenience is another thing.
Being able to keep a body in heaven is a higher level privilege reserved only for say, Cell Games Goku, and not Heart Virus Goku.
The biggest confusion this causes is fans assuming that Goku or any of the dragon team normally get bodies in the afterlife for as long as they want, or heaven especially.
If Goku got the privilege for his actions during the Cell Games, he wouldn't get it in the timelines this didn't happen. In other words Future Goku is not training in heaven, he probably is a puffy cloud in heaven or got reincarnated already. Future Kaiosama is not dead and in heaven so Goku is out of the loop about Gohan's suffering at least until Gohan dies.
Mentioning it because someone else will, there is a bonus chapter in the super manga that recaps Trunks’ (and Cell's I guess) Future. It's mainly to explain the Pilaf gang being kids in both continuities.
Goku is shown “in his body” however he's looking straight at the “camera” and addressing the audience. It wouldn't work if we couldn't tell who he was.
We also see Gohan watch the Dragonballs drop down inert as Piccolo dies. We see Piccolo frowning and with a halo to make that clear. And then Gohan mourning the death. There's no obvious passage of time between these two panels of Gohan, it'd take a second for Kami to find piccolo and give themselves bodies even if that was going to happen. It's clearly just illustrative.
As long as we are talking about Death and Bodies, another thing fans mess up is assuming people can be brought back without limit, or conversely assuming the limits are stricter than they actually are.
Some fans talk about “bringing back the Saiyan race” even putting aside what a boring idea this would be, and how in Universe, they have no reason to want to bring back a bunch of genocidal thugs who are a threat to civilians (and also not a challenge for the Dragon Team) this couldn’t be done due to how long ago they died.
The fans who can half read and remember this scene often “can’t see the wood for the trees”, and assume this means no *individual* can be bought back if they died over a year ago. This isn’t the case, as there’s clearly a numbers/time limit ‘ratio’ of sorts.
Presumably if they were a pretty neutral soul, or repented immediately in Hell, it might be possible to be reincarnated in less than a year, and be unrevivable, regardless of how recently you died or how few people were being brought back. Perhaps it depends on how long the line is at the check-in station. In either case we are never given a standard time, or time frame. Frieza's case is noted as exceptional that he never repented, and thus was still revive-able after about 15 years.
We have never seen a case where the Dragon Balls were used, but failed to bring someone back who was already reincarnated.
Heaven is presented as a Planet above the check-in station.
We don’t really see any of Hell, apart from a brief glimpse of Freeza’s personal Hell, which is offensively sweet and cutesy. It normally looks somewhat like the Demon Realm, as it’s said that “Dabra would be comfortable there”, but we only see that realm in expanded universe stuff like Heroes and Xenoverse.
Dai Kaios planet sits above Heaven.
(Image taken from Kanzenshuu https://www.kanzenshuu.com/gods-and-cosmos/universe/)
This image I got from Kanzenshuu, Toriyama had designed the previous universe map for the Anime Staff, but updated it with new info like the realm of the Kaioshins, which is neither part of the Mortal Universe nor the afterlife. Despite this, Goku was not only able to Teleport there from the afterlife, but he was able to do so after already running out of his 24 hours of time in the living world.
We can also see when Elder Kaioshin dies in the Kaioshin realm he pops up again right where he died, instead of the check-in station. He also seemingly put himself back in his own body with no ‘puffy cloud soul’ visible.
One would wonder how much of this is due to the location, his godly status, or his witch powers. Most likely it was just the best order of events for the gag Toriyama wanted to write.
And finally we have Maikai, the Demon Realm. We really only see this in expanded universe stuff. Beings born from the same tree as Kaios and Kaioshins, but who are tainted with evil, are sent there. Otherwise it seems to be evil sorcerers and Demons like Dabra mostly.
(Dragon Ball Heroes: Dark Demon Realm Mission!)
Ok, so we talked about the structure of the universe, how death and bodies in the afterlife work and how the time since death (plus, the fate of your soul) all affect your chances of being wished back with the Dragon Balls.
Now we can move on to talking about the Universes! I’m gonna make this a separate part but before we go, keep in mind it seems that the other Universes seem to function the same way:
Notice how the Demon Realm is cut off due to the “camera angle” here. It could be that this is something unique to U7. But in either case it’s not going to matter given that we haven’t seen or heard anything about that, and only one set of time travelling demons seem to cause trouble so far, all from U7.
Ok, that’s all. Thanks for reading!
