Different universes = different galaxies or realities?

[Bacon Skittles]

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[Hugo Boss]

Great input, but you forgot Future Gohan's universe.

At seriousness I believe this is just the author viewing the films as side stories, rather than trying to insert them in different universes inside the main story. So the 12-Universes-thing I believe it just belongs to the main story.

[Bacon Skittles]

Future Gohan/Trunk's had alternate timelines, not alternate universes. Maybe it's a sort of Universe 7b of sorts.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Chozenshu (#4?) implies that the 12 alternate universes that Beerus mentioned are not timelines or anything like that. Everything related to Goku/Dragon Ball thus far is occurring somewhere, in some version of Universe #7.

[Bacon Skittles]

Also maybe some of theses Universes have events in some of them that aren't in the other. For example Broly: Second Coming/Bio-Broly could take place in the Janemba Universe since Buu and Goku's placement seem to be quite off.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Also maybe some of theses Universes have events in some of them that aren't in the other. For example Broly: Second Coming/Bio-Broly could take place in the Janemba Universe since Buu and Goku's placement seem to be quite off.

As I just said, the implication is that everything before Battle of Gods (as well as the stuff after since there is no mention of these alternate universes yet) takes place in Universe #7. So those event should also be taking place somewhere in Universe #7 via an alternate timeline or something.

[Hugo Boss]

Well, the film where Future Gohan appears gives a different perspective if we compare it with how the manga portrays Future Trunks' story. So, I think the Trunks TV Special would work as a side story too. I mean, still in Universe #7.

What about the animated series? While it derives from main events, its content is not entirely inserted in the Dragon Ball story the author has in his mind(?). I would like to see how Toriyama thinks about this.

[Bacon Skittles]

The animated series has the Dead Zone filler in it, which means that it has to be in Universe #1 with the Dead Zone. Most of the other films aren't even compatible with the films. Except GT, which seems to be in an entirely different universe than that of the anime. For example it featured Cooler in the Super 17 Saga when he escapes from Hell. Then Goku and Vegeta perform the Fusion Dance (perfectly too) to create Gogeta. They learned how to do it from Fusion Reborn. It's also the second time Gogeta ever appears in the franchise, so he's not a new character.

[Kamiccolo9]

Also maybe some of theses Universes have events in some of them that aren't in the other. For example Broly: Second Coming/Bio-Broly could take place in the Janemba Universe since Buu and Goku's placement seem to be quite off.

As I just said, the implication is that everything before Battle of Gods (as well as the stuff after since there is no mention of these alternate universes yet) takes place in Universe #7. So those event should also be taking place somewhere in Universe #7 via an alternate timeline or something.

That's how I figured it. But what about crossovers with other series?

[Bacon Skittles]

But what about crossovers with other series?

Are you talking about the One Piece special?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

That's how I figured it. But what about crossovers with other series?

I guess I'd assume they either aren't even considered to be included in that statement, the same way I'd guess animated commercials for products and stuff don't count (poor Super Saiyan study desk). OR, they too are also occurring in some version of a Universe #7 timeline. A very weird and very different timeline or something...

Maybe they're even a Xenoverse Parallel Quest? A broken Time Fragment that is the result of someone tampering with history; where things don't make sense and it's best just to not ask too many questions? =P

[Bacon Skittles]

Yeah I'd say they're just non-canon in general. Otherwise then does that mean that One Piece is Universe 13 or are there multiple Universes inside of one giant Universe that crosses over with others? It's just non-canon. Same goes for Neko Majin Z, though one could put it in one of those 12 Universes.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

There's no reason to shove Neko Majin Z into one of Beerus' alternate universes. The Chozenshu state it as taking place in a parallel Dragon World (albeit a tweaked,more gaggy version than that portion of the series) and it has a Goku. That should place it somewhere in a Universe #7 timeline.

[Basaku]

To me 12 Universes = 12 balls with different galaxies, races, gods etc. Basically this times 12 next to each other:


I would rather stick with alternate timelines of the same Universe #7 for everything that involves Goku & co than trying to stick it into other "balls". Keeps the world bigger and more diverse this way, not just 12 versions of the same thing

[DragonBallLove]

My bet is that the other 11 universes are Toriyama non-Dragon Ball opus. Perhaps incluiding only the works written by him (Dr. Slump, Kajika, Toccio, Sandland, etc.), or perhaps even counting anything he has designed for (Blue Dragon, Dragon Quest, Chrono Trigger).

Even perhaps some of those work's faint connections to DB (Sandland's Dabura, DB Penguin Village and Dr. Slump's Goku) can be explained as multidimensional parallelism or travel (just think DC or Marvel and it will make more sense).

At least that's how my headcanon is going off lately.

[Berserker1921]

I'm confused by Beerus being the God of Destruction for Universe #7 out of 12. Does this mean that there are 12 alternate realities? Toriyama did say that the Dragon Ball movies take place in "different dimensions." So does this mean that each Universe is slightly different from each other? Or could the 12 Universes really refer to that the Dragon Ball Universe is categorized into 12 different areas but for some reason they're titled Universes?

If we were to group the different "dimensions" together with existing Dragon Ball media, it could equal out to 12 Universes.
Universe 1: Dead Zone/Anime Universe
Universe 2: World's Strongest Universe
Universe 3: Lord Slug Universe
Universe 4: Cooler Universe
Universe 5: Android 13 universe
Universe 6: Broly/Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans Universe
Universe 7: Manga Universe. Including Battle of Gods, Revival of F, Minus, Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!! and possibly Dragon Ball Online/Xenoverse
Universe 8: Bojack Universe
Universe 9: Janemba Universe
Universe 10: Wrath of Dragon Universe
Universe 11: Bardock Universe (Both Animated Specials)
Universe 12: GT Universe

I guess you could order the Universes differently as the ones closer to Universe 7 would be more aligned with the canon such as Bojack Unbound and Wrath of the Dragon. The farther the Universes are from each other, they more different they are. Fusion Reborn and GT seem to share many traits from the movies, so it's possible that instead of the universes being in a "order" they actually overlap each other.

Source of Toriyama's statement:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... interview/

I like your idea. But I wouldn't spread all the movies into several universes. I beleive that gt is an alternate universe. I think gt and the movies are alternate time lines. Like what if this changed. Like for example dbz movie 1,2, and 3. Would what if raditz did not come to earth.

[Berserker1921]

To me 12 Universes = 12 balls with different galaxies, races, gods etc. Basically this times 12 next to each other:


I would rather stick with alternate timelines of the same Universe #7 for everything that involves Goku & co than trying to stick it into other "balls". Keeps the world bigger and more diverse this way, not just 12 versions of the same thing

Yes each universe is like a marble and their are 11 other universe like that.

[Herms]

Chozenshu (#4?) implies that the 12 alternate universes that Beerus mentioned are not timelines or anything like that. Everything related to Goku/Dragon Ball thus far is occurring somewhere, in some version of Universe #7.

Yeah, that's in Chouzenshuu 4's "World View for DB" section. Besides the bit implying that the twelve universes are all a bunch of big snow globes, and saying Universe #7 is where Goku and co.'s adventures take place, the entire section makes references to stuff from GT, BoG, the earlier DBZ movies, Neko Majin, Dr. Slump, filler, etc, without any hint or suggestion that some of these things are located in one of the other twelve universes Beerus mentioned. Likewise, the book's timeline includes both BoG, GT, some of the earlier DBZ movies, Episode of Bardock, filler, etc. And the character bios place all the stuff from GT/BoG/movies/other anime stuff into a single "Anime" sub-section for each bio. It's the same setup as in the original Daizenshuu 7 dictionaries, but with GT and other new material added in. Meanwhile, for new manga material like Dr. Slump Abale-chan, Neko Majin, and Episode of Bardock, there's a new "Spin-Off" sub-section for each bio covering material from them. Basically, the book is interested in identifying where things originate from (DB manga, anime, spin-off manga) and dividing them up on that basis, but there's no attempt to define any sort of organized canon, or any suggestion that some of these things are set in one of the other twelve universes. Rather, it's repeatedly stated how DB takes place in the seventh universe, and this seems to mean all of DB, even versions that don't all necessarily fit together continuity-wise.

There's also never any attempt to rationalize how BoG and GT might fit together...which is at least a little odd, since Daizenshuu 7 actually did include a few theories trying to explain away filler contradictions and whatnot, like suggesting that maybe Gero and Frappe were partners in android research. But while Chouzenshuu 4 reprints these ideas along with most of Daizenshuu 7's material, it doesn't offer any new such theories. So for instance, the anime sub-section for Pilaf or Mai's bio describes both their young appearance in BoG and their elderly appearance in GT, without any sort of "hey, maybe they made another wish and wound up too old!" theories fans toss around. For that matter, there's never any special place given to BoG material. It's labelled anime-only just like everything from previous movies and GT and whatnot. Even the entry for Universe #7 in the locations dictionary is labelled anime-only and explained as being something introduced in BoG. Not to repeat myself, but it's really not treated as the key to arranging all the franchise's various incarnations in relation to each other across some vast multiverse. Loads of fans obviously go wild for the idea, but so far the franchise's movers and shakers don't seem interested. Maybe they will some day, but in the meantime they seem perfectly able to sell video and card games incorporating as much GT as they want without devising any Grand Unified Theory of continuity, so they probably figure it's best to just leave well enough alone.

[Basaku]

Maybe they will some day, but in the meantime they seem perfectly able to sell video and card games incorporating as much GT as they want without devising any Grand Unified Theory of continuity, so they probably figure it's best to just leave well enough alone.

No doubt they want to push toys and merch of everything available and if there's 1 thing that's popular among fans from GT it's the designs, but at some point they won't be able to escape continuity questions. BOG/ROF isn't even taking place at the same time as GT yet stuff intrduced in it already essentially rules GT's existance out of the same continuity. Well-mantained finctinal universes with strong continuity and canon structure are getting more and more important in entertainment world and seeing how adamant Toei was with selling BOG as "canon", seems to me they know it too. If even Star Wars can discard most of its expanded material as non-canon in favour of new material, I don't see DB not going for it as some point too

[Dayspring]

Well-maintained functional universes with strong continuity and canon structure are getting more and more important in entertainment world

Actually, the exact opposite seems to be what's happening.