"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Chiki]

Holy fuck, Black and Zamasu are rotten to the core. No Kaioshin or Hakaishin left in Trunks's timeline.. why doesn't Zeno step in?

[jplaya2023]

Holy fuck, Black and Zamasu are rotten to the core. No Kaioshin or Hakaishin left in Trunks's timeline.. why doesn't Zeno step in?

It either has to be the biggest plothole in DBZ history, or Zeno is just as lazy as his attendants are. At the very least, new kaioshins and gods of destructions should be appointed.

[ekrolo2]

Holy fuck, Black and Zamasu are rotten to the core. No Kaioshin or Hakaishin left in Trunks's timeline.. why doesn't Zeno step in?

It either has to be the biggest plothole in DBZ history, or Zeno is just as lazy as his attendants are. At the very least, new kaioshins and gods of destructions should be appointed.

Zeno destroyed six of the original 18 universes because something ticked him off, killing Gods of Destruction and attendants with them too. The guy gives no fucks about his subordinates.

[THEGOKU]

Black and Zamasu are probably as evil as Freeza I would say. Cell just did it for fun and convenience and Buu was just created to kill but these two are just horrible.

[ekrolo2]

Black and Zamasu are probably as evil as Freeza I would say. Cell just did it for fun and convenience and Buu was just created to kill but these two are just horrible.

Nah, all of the Z-bad guys are evil because they're evil. There's no real dimension to them.

Zamasu and Black are well-intentioned extremists I'd say. Their core idea of bringing Godly order to the universe isn't bad, they simply don't trust the Gods or the mortals to follow any guidelines so they're only remaining choice is to exterminate them. They're not wrong about us just using our sentience and knowledge just to find better ways of killing one another.

When we go to the Babarian planet of the future, I expect we'll see a similar scene play out as with their early species, they'll just be killing each other with guns and bombs instead of clubs and bow & arrows.

[TheMikado]

Holy fuck, Black and Zamasu are rotten to the core. No Kaioshin or Hakaishin left in Trunks's timeline.. why doesn't Zeno step in?

Zeno could similarly be tied to the Gods of Destruction for his life force. As to why he doesn't know about it, he's clearly not omniscient and likely not thinking about it as both Kaioshin and Gods if Destruction live millions of years.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Holy fuck, Black and Zamasu are rotten to the core. No Kaioshin or Hakaishin left in Trunks's timeline.. why doesn't Zeno step in?

Zeno could similarly be tied to the Gods of Destruction for his life force. As to why he doesn't know about it, he's clearly not omniscient and likely not thinking about it as both Kaioshin and Gods if Destruction live millions of years.

Probably doesn't care all that much. He doesn't seem too benevolent.

[Swifticuffs]

SS Trunks was stronger than SS Gohan was in the Cell Games, yet he was no match for Dabra, and Gohan wasn't any better than CG Gohan on Boo arc. SS2 Trunks, who was stronger than CG SS2 Gohan, required help from Kaioshin to defeat Dabra.

Trunks said this battle with Dabra and Bobbidi took place "several years ago." He still has additional time to become stronger than Cell Games Gohan, whereas at this point he could still be somewhat behind.

Wait wait, SS Trunks Cell Games was stronger than SS Gohan cell games? Do we have proof of his SS form being that weak, or we're going off raw strength since Trunks used the Ascended and Ultra forms to push his muscle and power?

Just want to clarify.

Also I agree with the posters above on Black/Zamasu being evil alla Freeza.

[Kaboom]

Wait wait, SS Trunks Cell Games was stronger than SS Gohan cell games? Do we have proof of his SS form being that weak, or we're going off raw strength since Trunks used the Ascended and Ultra forms to push his muscle and power? Just want to clarify.

In chapter 15 of the manga, when he and Trunks have started sparring with SS2, Goku says that Trunks is "even stronger than Gohan was back then," presumably meaning back during the Cell Games when they last met. That doesn't necessarily mean Trunks was already that strong when he fought Dabra, since that was several years ago for him. Based on him struggling against Dabra with Super Saiyan 1 but thrashing him with Super Saiyan 2, Trunks was probably in Boo-arc Gohan's power range at the time, or just a little bit behind it.

The anime has apparently done things differently. It didn't show Trunks' fight with Dabra with anywhere near as much detail, and Goku's comparison of Trunks to Gohan isn't in the anime at all as far as I know.

[jplaya2023]

I think the reason why the sword did not break when trunks hit that metal was because he was a better swordsman than gohan was and he knew the ins and outs of sword usage? Does anyone buy that theory?

Trunks knew how to hit the metal to not break the sword.

Another thing is future kibito seems to be happy with trunks on the holy sphere as he was very opposed to gohan being there and goku eventually following.

[Swifticuffs]

I think the reason why the sword did not break when trunks hit that metal was because he was a better swordsman than gohan was and he knew the ins and outs of sword usage? Does anyone buy that theory?

Trunks knew how to hit the metal to not break the sword.

Another thing is future kibito seems to be happy with trunks on the holy sphere as he was very opposed to gohan being there and goku eventually following.

I think Kibito distracted Trunks and he never swung at it. That said, why does Old Kaioshin not resurrect when the sword breaks vs Dabra? Is this due to the stone technique killing him or something?

[Doctor.]

So the manga won't have a time paradox?

Yeah, it's much better written.

[batistabus]

The first, why didn't Black kill Trunks when he clearly had the chance? Trunks was weak from fighting Dabura and he had the chance to wiped out a future threat. So, why didn't he? This seems to go against Black's character as a pragmatic. I also don't see why he didn't attack the Earth while he was there, but I guess this could be justified by him killing Kais.

Toyotaro did a lot to play with perspective in this chapter, so while it seems like Black was standing right there, he might not have been. In that flashback, Black is talking to himself...so how would Trunks have known that he said that? He would have had to encounter Black moments later, or that is merely a visual representation of his explanation.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

The first, why didn't Black kill Trunks when he clearly had the chance? Trunks was weak from fighting Dabura and he had the chance to wiped out a future threat. So, why didn't he? This seems to go against Black's character as a pragmatic. I also don't see why he didn't attack the Earth while he was there, but I guess this could be justified by him killing Kais.

Toyotaro did a lot to play with perspective in this chapter, so while it seems like Black was standing right there, he might not have been. In that flashback, Black is talking to himself...so how would Trunks have known that he said that? He would have had to encounter Black moments later, or that is merely a visual representation of his explanation.

I'm pretty sure he was there, the way it was drawn definitely depicted him as literally being there. He also seems to have chosen the HoT timeline specifically because of it's lack of Godly Protectors.

[OLKv3]

Will Zamasu fight Goku on Earth instead of Black showing up to fight him? It makes sense. Zamasu learns of Goku from Kaioshin, and decides to see the man for himself. He shows up, Goku challenges him to a fight, then Zamasu gets into his whole "ningens must be purged!!!" mentality

This also makes Beerus and Whis notice his personality

[Noah]

As said by myself earlier:

So I heard "spoilers" from the manga that Black kill all Kaioshins and Hakaishin from all universes, well I can say I don't believe in such thing silly as this, is a lie isn't?

And now looks like it's confirmed:

"未来の全12の宇宙の界王神&破壊神は全滅したらしい…"

I think we have our confirmation (or we already had it?) that Goku Black killed all Kaioshins (and consequently all Hakaishins) in the future. But what about Kaios? Think they aren't a nuisance, I guess.

But that doesn't make a good sense for me, if Black is indeed that powerfull to kill all Kaioshins (considering they are SSJ2-tier or more) what are his reasons to toy with Trunks all this time?

[Doctor.]

As said by myself earlier:

So I heard "spoilers" from the manga that Black kill all Kaioshins and Hakaishin from all universes, well I can say I don't believe in such thing silly as this, is a lie isn't?

And now looks like it's confirmed:

"未来の全12の宇宙の界王神&破壊神は全滅したらしい…"

I think we have our confirmation (or we already had it?) that Goku Black killed all Kaioshins (and consequently all Hakaishins) in the future. But what about Kaios? Think they aren't a nuisance, I guess.

But that doesn't make a good sense for me, if Black is indeed that powerfull to kill all Kaioshins (considering they are SSJ2-tier or more) what are his reasons to toy with Trunks all this time?

Kaioshin said Zamasu was the strongest Kaioshin and he's weaker than SS2 Goku. Kaioshin himself is weaker than SS1.

[Noah]

Kaioshin said Zamasu was the strongest Kaioshin and he's weaker than SS2 Goku. Kaioshin himself is weaker than SS1.

Well, but there's a difference in power between SSJ2 Goku (Boo Arc) and actual SSJ2 Goku in this arc, Universe 7 Kaioshin resisted Boo's rampage for quite a while before most of them being absorbed, we could say they are even stronger



Thoughts about the chapter:

- I liked how they did the Boo Arc in Mirai Trunks timeline, really enjoyed that he trained in Kaioshin Realm, it makes more plausible that he's so strong now, I guess

- Still don't like those anime/manga differences, but I can deal it

- Zamasu being influenced by East Kaioshin is way better than a sparring match with Goku, I kinda tired that villains come up all by Goku's actions.

[TheMikado]

So the manga won't have a time paradox?

Yeah, it's much better written.

Yeah exactly, I like how everyone is ignoring this as that's probably the biggest difference and in this same thread have people ironically stating the manga isn't canon due to being inconsistent with the anime.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Kaioshin said Zamasu was the strongest Kaioshin and he's weaker than SS2 Goku. Kaioshin himself is weaker than SS1.

Well, but there's a difference in power between SSJ2 Goku (Boo Arc) and actual SSJ2 Goku in this arc, Universe 7 Kaioshin resisted Boo's rampage for quite a while before most of them being absorbed, we could say they are even stronger



Thoughts about the chapter:

- I liked how they did the Boo Arc in Mirai Trunks timeline, really enjoyed that he trained in Kaioshin Realm, it makes more plausible that he's so strong now, I guess

- Still don't like those anime/manga differences, but I can deal it

- Zamasu being influenced by East Kaioshin is way better than a sparring match with Goku, I kinda tired that villains come up all by Goku's actions.

Why don't you like the differences? It gives an actual reason to own both. I wish that DB and DBZ would have taken more liberties.