Who did it better (SUB vs. DUB)

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Re: Who did it better (SUB vs. DUB)

Post by Fionordequester » Fri May 15, 2015 5:31 pm

ABED wrote:I get that to an extent but Cook? He overacts to the nth degree.
...And that's a bad thing? In a show like Dragon Ball Z, when playing guys like Super Buu and Raditz :P ?

All right, but on a serious note, I really do NOT think that Cook is an over-actor. He is VERY emotionally expressive, but to me, that makes him a great actor, not a crummy one. No, if you want to see what over-acting REALLY looks like, in a Dragon Ball Z product...then I present to you...Ocean Dub Imperfect Cell...

My goodness, this guy...this performance...well, almost all of the characters have a problem with over-acting at one point or another in the Ocean dub, and Cell's actor actually DOES get a little better each time Cell gets a new form, to the point where he actually becomes decent as Perfect Cell (though still pretty hammy and silly, especially when powering up). But while he's Imperfect Cell, and even in some Semi-Perfect Cell moments...oh man :crazy: ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAwcglpNLO8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8yw90zJRHU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br5ExPFf0Vc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKYC0BqO6oU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U6nlll702M
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Re: Who did it better (SUB vs. DUB)

Post by ABED » Fri May 15, 2015 6:04 pm

But he's not being delightfully over the top, he's overacting, there's a difference. A good actor can pull off over the top and sound "real". I don't know how to explain it other than Cook is trying too hard act evil and maniacal. I disagree that he's emotionally expressive, he sounds like he's attempting to sound emotional, but it always sounds like he's acting, not being. And I've never understood the love that even some hardcore JPN version fans have for him as Super Buu. That's why scenes like Genkai's death falls flat for me in the dub. Cook's evil characters aren't in the slightest bit threatening, which is mandatory for evil bastards like Buu and Raditz.
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Re: Who did it better (SUB vs. DUB)

Post by TheAldella » Fri May 15, 2015 9:28 pm

Duncan Brennan as Babidi and whoever played Funimation Dabura. These man were vigorously inTENSE.
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Re: Who did it better (SUB vs. DUB)

Post by Sayo-chan » Fri May 15, 2015 9:35 pm

I used to spend way too much time debating this sort of thing on YouTube back in the day. Overall I think FUNi's in-house dub is pretty cringeworthy, more so than Ocean's. In general I don't really have an issue with the original (that is, subs), because it sounds like a cohesive effort, despite it being in mono. The biggest excuse I've heard over the years is: "They all sound like girls!" Now, that isn't true at all, but even if they did, so what? It's just ethnocentric nonsense.

I typically get a lot of shit for this, but I really don't think Sabat has improved that much. Adding an echo filter to his voice doesn't make his screams anymore powerful. Drummond can scream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CH4k_URq4o
Sabat's always reminded me of a chain smoker, or raspy old man: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqe_5q1mUtY I watched a few scenes from Battle of the Gods, given that I could hardly tolerate it subbed. The 'bingo' scene with Vegeta really made me feel like Sabat wasn't even trying: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hKlJcp_f0o I recall a number of times when he confused grunts and noises with Piccolo's voice throughout Kai (which I suppose is a bit better than his earlier work, confusing voices with that godawful Kuwabara inflection). Ryo Horikawa is phenomenal in Z (not so much in Kai), and easily beats both Sabat and Drummond: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0EBL-bn9A0 I also fervently disagree that Drummond is better suited for younger and Sabat for older Vegeta. The only argument I've heard is, "well the art style changes." That isn't an excuse. The point they change voices at is completely arbitrary, and I'd wager there was nothing significant until after Vegeta was 'revived' to help beat Boo. Even then, why would that warrant the voice change? It seems like nostalgia bias more than anything.

Now Sabat's Piccolo isn't bad per se, but it just feels dry and boring. Scott McNeil does it better; his elocution has more oomph, probably from being a more seasoned voice actor than Sabat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL9cgtB3E40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5eM7v5AvJY Furukawa is the definitive voice of Piccolo, but McNeil takes the cake for sheer badassery.

Despite the arbitrary nature of Jeice's Australian accent, I thoroughly enjoy it. Why does Mcneil do it better? Probably because he's Australian (and I'm pretty sure the voice he's doing is more of a Brummie accent as well). I think it's clear Sabat's was nothing short of mediocre imitation, but what separates it from being bad is probably the fact Sabat spent a couple years in Australia. Liebrecht's voice is three-dimensional and full of vigor, but I don't care for it. Kazumi's is overall pretty good, but I'm biased towards McNeil.

Now Recoom, well... Sabat's rendition makes the guy sound like he has an extra chromosome or something. David Kaye's reminds me of a bad Schwarzenegger impression (so, also with an extra chromosome). Utsumi sounds better, but still nothing special. There's no winner here.

Zarbon. Paul Dobson takes the cake here. Wicked and nasty, yet eloquent and refined. Sabat sounds annoyingly flamboyant. They just had to take the stereotypical route here and make him sound how Zoisite looks. I wouldn't mind it if they chose to give him a feminine voice, but the whiny tone he gave him is predictable. Hayami's the definitive voice here, but I vastly prefer Dobson.

Burta. Don Brown's voice is solid, but odd. It certainly sounds like a lizard monster's voice, but whatever. I feel like Mark Britten refined it and did it better. Sabat? It sounds like his Vegeta voice with a Britten filter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMTVWbkbizM Kishino easily does the best voice for the character.

Salza. Everything about his FUNi voice is bad. Nothing else needs to be said.

Sean Schemmel. This is another one people hate me for. I can't stand him as Kaio or Goku. His voice for Goku isn't too different from his normal voice, but somehow, when he first started, it really sounded like a Corlett impression. That "duhahahahaha!" laugh is what grates on my nerves the most. Then there's the fact it takes Schemmel a lot of breaths to do yells that don't even sound that great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WC0TDHxWRt0 To me Nozawa doesn't really sound feminine so much as androgynous. I've heard some people say it sounds elderly, but I don't hear it (especially since many people are astonished when they hear how old she is). Maybe I'm also in the minority when I say that her screams don't make my ears bleed; they sound pleasant to me. She is Goku as far as I'm concerned, but I'd take Kelamis for English any day of the week, then Corlett. I remember the internet was in a huge uproar when Schemmel took over. I can only imagine how much bigger it would be now if someone replaced him, despite how much delight I would take in it.

Android 17. I love Chuck Huber in almost everything he's been in. His attitude is always solid. Even in the early Z dub, he was one of the few that stuck out as being good. Maybe it's his mentality of 'always needing to have a screw loose to get somewhere', but I think he's one of FUNi's best. Shigeru Nakahara is one of my favorite voices in the subs, so it's hard to really say who's better. They're both great. Ted Cole though? Gimme a break. The guy is painfully monotone.

Android 18. Miki Ito all the way. Okuma does an okay voice, better than Cole's 17 anyhow. Meredith McCoy though, yuck. I'm not sure why she has fans. I always found her rendition to be like nails on a chalkboard on the Jersey boardwalk. Clinkenbeard's voice sounds softer, less punk and throaty--I like it. Ito > Clinkenbeard > Okuma > McCoy.

Brian Dobson could learn something from his brother. His Dr. Gero is the most one-dimensional portrayal I've ever heard out of anyone at Ocean. It sounds like someone reading lines off a teleprompter they can't see that well. Someone sent me a clip from twilight years ago, where the main girl was in a car with the sparkle vampire, her lines were so forced it sounded robotic (like Brian's performance). Anyway, Yada does an okay voice, nothing spectacular. Kent Williams is the definitive voice to me, he nails it.

Cell. Cell's a tough one. Clarke has improved tremendously, but is he on par with Wakamoto? I don't know, I don't think so. I know Wakamoto can be pretty static in a lot of his roles, but purely as Cell, the voice couldn't be anymore perfect. Both are great, but Clarke in Xenoverse was one of the most atrocious things I've ever heard. Bad dialogue, bad voice, bad everything (the game's pretty shit in general). What went wrong? I've always had a theory that he doesn't really like working with DBZ, but I'm not sure. Oh and Dale Wilson? He's a joke. His voice is almost as bad as Brian's.

Freeza. Would you believe there's a petition for Linda Young to be in the new DBZ movie? https://www.change.org/p/funimation-toe ... eated=true How can anyone like her voice? It doesn't fit Freeza at all; it's hoarse and ineloquent. She sounds fine for someone like Genkai, but she's no Nozawa; she doesn't pull off voicing the opposite gender at all. Chris Ayres sounds absolutely malevolent, devious, yet refined. Ayres is Nakao's English equivalent, both are fantastic. And Pauline Newstone? I'd place her slightly above Young, but she's still terrible for the role.

Gohan. I'm a bit biased towards Nozawa here, but I'd probably have to say I prefer Clinkenbeard. Nadolny's portrayal is awful. What little boy sounds like he's been smoking cigarette's for 60 years? She sounds all right as Kid Goku, so I'm not sure why she decided to go the throat cancer route with Gohan. Saffron Henderson doesn't sound spectacular or anything, but I'd still take her over Nadolny.

Duncan Brannan's Babidi is one of the only (if not the only) where I can say there's no contest that the English voice is better. Yanami's rendition sounds dull and boring.

I didn't really acknowledge a lot of Kai, Blue Water, Final Bout, etc. and a number of characters, so forgive me, but these are the ones I pulled off the top of my head.
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Re: Who did it better (SUB vs. DUB)

Post by ABED » Fri May 15, 2015 9:52 pm

His voice for Goku isn't too different from his normal voice, but somehow, when he first started, it really sounded like a Corlett impression.
Is it bad that he's using his normal voice?

It sounds like an impression because that's what he was hired to do.
whoever played Funimation Dabura. These man were vigorously inTENSE.
Rick Robertson played him and he has an excellent voice. He's also great as Yomi in Yu Yu Hakusho.
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Re: Who did it better (SUB vs. DUB)

Post by Sayo-chan » Fri May 15, 2015 9:55 pm

ABED wrote:
His voice for Goku isn't too different from his normal voice, but somehow, when he first started, it really sounded like a Corlett impression.
Is it bad that he's using his normal voice?

It sounds like an impression because that's what he was hired to do.
No. I brought that up to illustrate that he sounded (to me) like Corlett, but didn't change his voice much. It was just an observation.
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Re: Who did it better (SUB vs. DUB)

Post by ABED » Fri May 15, 2015 9:58 pm

Sayo-chan wrote:
ABED wrote:
His voice for Goku isn't too different from his normal voice, but somehow, when he first started, it really sounded like a Corlett impression.
Is it bad that he's using his normal voice?

It sounds like an impression because that's what he was hired to do.
No. I brought that up to illustrate that he sounded (to me) like Corlett, but didn't change his voice much. It was just an observation.
He did the impression until around the Super Saiyan transformation.
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Re: Who did it better (SUB vs. DUB)

Post by Rocketman » Fri May 15, 2015 10:10 pm

Sayo-chan wrote:What little boy sounds like he's been smoking cigarette's for 60 years?
It never stops amusing me that people make this complaint, then turn around and praise Nozawa.

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Re: Who did it better (SUB vs. DUB)

Post by ABED » Fri May 15, 2015 10:22 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Sayo-chan wrote:What little boy sounds like he's been smoking cigarette's for 60 years?
It never stops amusing me that people make this complaint, then turn around and praise Nozawa.
Why, she doesn't sound like a smoker?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Who did it better (SUB vs. DUB)

Post by Sayo-chan » Fri May 15, 2015 10:27 pm

ABED wrote:
Rocketman wrote:
Sayo-chan wrote:What little boy sounds like he's been smoking cigarette's for 60 years?
It never stops amusing me that people make this complaint, then turn around and praise Nozawa.
Why, she doesn't sound like a smoker?
I'd also like to know this. I never found her voice to be hoarse in the slightest. Unless he's referring to the ethnocentric tidbit, which I'd like to say isn't valid due to the fact that Nozawa doesn't sound horrendous.
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Re: Who did it better (SUB vs. DUB)

Post by Ripper 30 » Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:31 am

sintzu wrote:Both did a great job at bringing the characters to life but I think the English dub cast fits the characters better.
Nope, dbz dub was a bastardization of original work and changed script, lines,music and added lots of made up lines in dub thus changing the meaning of show in English
I prefer Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, DB/Z/GT Movies, Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball GT in Japanese.
For DBZ Kai and two new Movies I like both Dub and Sub. I Prefer Shunsuke Kikuchi Soundtracks over All other Composers.
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Re: Who did it better (SUB vs. DUB)

Post by Ripper 30 » Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:39 am

Bullza wrote:Overall the dub was much better.
Yup,for Fullmetal Alchemist the dub may be better not dbz
I prefer Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, DB/Z/GT Movies, Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball GT in Japanese.
For DBZ Kai and two new Movies I like both Dub and Sub. I Prefer Shunsuke Kikuchi Soundtracks over All other Composers.
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Re: Who did it better (SUB vs. DUB)

Post by Ripper 30 » Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:47 am

sangofe wrote:
Fionordequester wrote: Goku (Nozawa is awesome at the ACTING part...but I think Schemmel has the more fitting voice. Plus, Schemmel is much better at screaming)
W-W-W-W-What did I just read? Schemmel better at SCREAMING than Nozawa?! Huh? I don't think you've heard the non human screams Nozowa has been delivered through decades! The screams she delivers are just inhuman. Maybe you prefer a more "human like" scream, though. But I've been massivly impressed by Nozawa's screams for decades.
Yup,Nozawa screams for goku were awesome speacially the screams on namek speacially the kaio ken vs ginyu,that scream of Nozawa was manly and energetic,Schemmel constipated the whole time,during Buu saga his screams did improved but Nozawa is on a completely different level jad she is the real Goku
I prefer Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, DB/Z/GT Movies, Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball GT in Japanese.
For DBZ Kai and two new Movies I like both Dub and Sub. I Prefer Shunsuke Kikuchi Soundtracks over All other Composers.
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Re: Who did it better (SUB vs. DUB)

Post by Fionordequester » Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:41 am

Ripper 30 wrote:W-W-W-W-What did I just read? Schemmel better at SCREAMING than Nozawa?! Huh? I don't think you've heard the non human screams Nozowa has been delivered through decades! The screams she delivers are just inhuman. Maybe you prefer a more "human like" scream, though. But I've been massivly impressed by Nozawa's screams for decades.
B-B-B-B-But I don't see how you could say that! I mean, just compare the twos' SSJ transformation scream. First we have Masako Nozawa's...

Gyaaa!

Which wouldn't have even sounded different from her regular grunts were it not for the voice filter. Plus, it's so short and clipped that it doesn't even match the yelling animation (seriously, what happened there?).

Now take that, and compare it to Schemmel's...

HoooaaaAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!

And you see one that not only fits the animation, but also has a distinct build up, climax, and follow through. It's at a distinctly higher pitch than his regular battle grunts, it sounds louder, and it doesn't need a voice filter to send chills down your spine.

Now, if Nozawa's got some winners that I'm not aware of, cool. I'd love to hear them; but I think it's unfair to say that the two aren't at least comparable.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: Who did it better (SUB vs. DUB)

Post by VegettoEX » Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:33 am

Folks, please take a look at the threads you're responding to - this one had not been active for well over a year. I'm not sure how or why people dig up old threads (it's not exactly sitting here on the first page), but that's generally not a great way to go about contributing to an on-going discussion with relevant, current fellow community members.

It's certainly still valid and worthwhile to have this opinion in 2016, but do consider what it looks like to be the random dude that pops up a year later in a thread to complain about the English dub being bad with a poorly-written post. Ripper 30, I just deleted a comment of yours that bumped a five-year-old thread. Consider this a freebie warning.
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Re: Who did it better (SUB vs. DUB)

Post by Ripper 30 » Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:24 am

Fionordequester wrote:
Ripper 30 wrote:W-W-W-W-What did I just read? Schemmel better at SCREAMING than Nozawa?! Huh? I don't think you've heard the non human screams Nozowa has been delivered through decades! The screams she delivers are just inhuman. Maybe you prefer a more "human like" scream, though. But I've been massivly impressed by Nozawa's screams for decades.
B-B-B-B-But I don't see how you could say that! I mean, just compare the twos' SSJ transformation scream. First we have Masako Nozawa's...

Gyaaa!

Which wouldn't have even sounded different from her regular grunts were it not for the voice filter. Plus, it's so short and clipped that it doesn't even match the yelling animation (seriously, what happened there?).

Now take that, and compare it to Schemmel's...

HoooaaaAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!

And you see one that not only fits the animation, but also has a distinct build up, climax, and follow through. It's at a distinctly higher pitch than his regular battle grunts, it sounds louder, and it doesn't need a voice filter to send chills down your spine.

Now, if Nozawa's got some winners that I'm not aware of, cool. I'd love to hear them; but I think it's unfair to say that the two aren't at least comparable.
Talking about voice filters isn't Funimation the one who uses voice filters for almost everyone ?
Frieza 2nd form voice
Frieza 3 rd form voice
Frieza final form voice
Vegeta Ozaaru voice(Japanese ozaaru voice didn't had filter)
Vegeta screams(Sabat was so lame actor that all he did was use echo filters for scream and speacially the speech to ascend after being defeated by No. 18 ,even Drummond had better screams than him)
And they hardly used the filters in Japanese version and the only reason they used it was to show Goku's Drastic burst of Anger and they wanted the audience to experience and feel the shock that Goku was
VegettoEX wrote:Folks, please take a look at the threads you're responding to - this one had not been active for well over a year. I'm not sure how or why people dig up old threads (it's not exactly sitting here on the first page), but that's generally not a great way to go about contributing to an on-going discussion with relevant, current fellow community members.

It's certainly still valid and worthwhile to have this opinion in 2016, but do consider what it looks like to be the random dude that pops up a year later in a thread to complain about the English dub being bad with a poorly-written post. Ripper 30, I just deleted a comment of yours that bumped a five-year-old thread. Consider this a freebie warning.
Okay, sorry if i was rude in that post i actually didn't knew the rules of the community.
I prefer Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, DB/Z/GT Movies, Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball GT in Japanese.
For DBZ Kai and two new Movies I like both Dub and Sub. I Prefer Shunsuke Kikuchi Soundtracks over All other Composers.
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