And many would say that the words ''filler'' and ''good'' are incompatible. The first DB community which I visited online, most people simply did not stand filler at all.Jinzoningen MULE wrote:You're referencing English Kai as a reason it's necessary, which would be fine, but we already have a fully intelligible version in the DBZ sub. I don't see how cutting filler is "necessary" either. Maybe if this were a show like Naruto, but most of the (non-fighting) Dragon Ball filler fits in just fine. I'm sure many would agree with me if I said the first 17 episodes of DBZ contained not only some of the best filler of its kind in Dragon Ball, but of any other anime of the time.ZPolk01 wrote:Yes, it was made to be more accurate to the manga (or at least remove most filler) and for the Funimation dub, yes, because the voice acting is better (Kid/Pre-Teen Gohan and Bulma's voices are... rather diverse though), and the characters are portrayed more accurately as they were to the manga.
Was Kai Necessary
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Re: Was Kai Necessary
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Re: Was Kai Necessary
Filler is not axiomatically bad.Bagginses wrote:And many would say that the words ''filler'' and ''good'' are incompatible. The first DB community which I visited online, most people simply did not stand filler at all.Jinzoningen MULE wrote:You're referencing English Kai as a reason it's necessary, which would be fine, but we already have a fully intelligible version in the DBZ sub. I don't see how cutting filler is "necessary" either. Maybe if this were a show like Naruto, but most of the (non-fighting) Dragon Ball filler fits in just fine. I'm sure many would agree with me if I said the first 17 episodes of DBZ contained not only some of the best filler of its kind in Dragon Ball, but of any other anime of the time.ZPolk01 wrote:Yes, it was made to be more accurate to the manga (or at least remove most filler) and for the Funimation dub, yes, because the voice acting is better (Kid/Pre-Teen Gohan and Bulma's voices are... rather diverse though), and the characters are portrayed more accurately as they were to the manga.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary
Yes, Kai has cut of 85-90% of the fillers which DBZ was mocked for and heavily criticized. Kai has well paced fights and the dub has good voice acting (although many people miss Faulkner music)
Just like Hunter x Hunter and Fullmetal Alchemist, the remakes were necessary to make lots of improvements. You can actually now recommend people to watch DBZ because of Kai, they won't be scared by the number of episodes
Just like Hunter x Hunter and Fullmetal Alchemist, the remakes were necessary to make lots of improvements. You can actually now recommend people to watch DBZ because of Kai, they won't be scared by the number of episodes
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Re: Was Kai Necessary
Lol, this is true. My wife hates anime, so getting her to watch all of DB, Z, GT, and 20 movies would be impossible. Instead, we watched DB, Kai, and the History of Trunks. Shockingly, she didn't hurl or leap out of a window. She actually kind of enjoyed it.Faisal Shourov wrote:Yes, Kai has cut of 85-90% of the fillers which DBZ was mocked for and heavily criticized. Kai has well paced fights and the dub has good voice acting (although many people miss Faulkner music)
Just like Hunter x Hunter and Fullmetal Alchemist, the remakes were necessary to make lots of improvements. You can actually now recommend people to watch DBZ because of Kai, they won't be scared by the number of episodes
That is why Kai is necessary.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary
I mean... not really. She never watched the original, you have no idea whether she'd enjoy it or not. In fact, if you like Kai, that's a pretty good indicator that you'd like all of the extra world-building that the original gave us.Spiketbear wrote:Lol, this is true. My wife hates anime, so getting her to watch all of DB, Z, GT, and 20 movies would be impossible. Instead, we watched DB, Kai, and the History of Trunks. Shockingly, she didn't hurl or leap out of a window. She actually kind of enjoyed it.Faisal Shourov wrote:Yes, Kai has cut of 85-90% of the fillers which DBZ was mocked for and heavily criticized. Kai has well paced fights and the dub has good voice acting (although many people miss Faulkner music)
Just like Hunter x Hunter and Fullmetal Alchemist, the remakes were necessary to make lots of improvements. You can actually now recommend people to watch DBZ because of Kai, they won't be scared by the number of episodes
That is why Kai is necessary.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary
My god, you're such a goddamn pessimist. You keep bumming me out.Jinzoningen MULE wrote:I mean... not really. She never watched the original, you have no idea whether she'd enjoy it or not. In fact, if you like Kai, that's a pretty good indicator that you'd like all of the extra world-building that the original gave us.Spiketbear wrote:Lol, this is true. My wife hates anime, so getting her to watch all of DB, Z, GT, and 20 movies would be impossible. Instead, we watched DB, Kai, and the History of Trunks. Shockingly, she didn't hurl or leap out of a window. She actually kind of enjoyed it.Faisal Shourov wrote:Yes, Kai has cut of 85-90% of the fillers which DBZ was mocked for and heavily criticized. Kai has well paced fights and the dub has good voice acting (although many people miss Faulkner music)
Just like Hunter x Hunter and Fullmetal Alchemist, the remakes were necessary to make lots of improvements. You can actually now recommend people to watch DBZ because of Kai, they won't be scared by the number of episodes
That is why Kai is necessary.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary
Your right, all 400 episodes of filler for it, coupled with the embarrassingly bad voice acting and the terrible music, she sure needs to watch 400 episodes, which are mostly filler, and even include a three hour long fight scene. Sure needs to watch it over Kai's 60 episode series, which haven't even breached a 100 yet. She sure needs to go see the originalJinzoningen MULE wrote:I mean... not really. She never watched the original, you have no idea whether she'd enjoy it or not. In fact, if you like Kai, that's a pretty good indicator that you'd like all of the extra world-building that the original gave us.Spiketbear wrote:Lol, this is true. My wife hates anime, so getting her to watch all of DB, Z, GT, and 20 movies would be impossible. Instead, we watched DB, Kai, and the History of Trunks. Shockingly, she didn't hurl or leap out of a window. She actually kind of enjoyed it.Faisal Shourov wrote:Yes, Kai has cut of 85-90% of the fillers which DBZ was mocked for and heavily criticized. Kai has well paced fights and the dub has good voice acting (although many people miss Faulkner music)
Just like Hunter x Hunter and Fullmetal Alchemist, the remakes were necessary to make lots of improvements. You can actually now recommend people to watch DBZ because of Kai, they won't be scared by the number of episodes
That is why Kai is necessary.
Re: Was Kai Necessary
Don't foeget about funimation's "remastering" for fans who can't get the dragon boxes.Gog wrote:Your right, all 400 episodes of filler for it, coupled with the embarrassingly bad voice acting and the terrible music.
Kai is truly the best thing that happened to Z, it has flaws for sure but it's nowhere near as hard to watch as Z is.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary
You guys are forgetting the fact that many people completely forgot DB existed until Kai popped up. It's very enticing for fans from the first airing to watch something from their childhood "remastered" and with the fat trimmed. One doesn't replace the other, they exist simultaneously.
Also, Kai was a great way to introduce DB to a new generation, which I think is the reason why we've seen a DB resurgence in the first place. Kai had to happen for everything that came after it.
I'm surprised they haven't announced a kai version of the original DB series. We can only hope they'll redub and "remaster" it so that the same new generation can see how DB is just as good as Z.
Also, Kai was a great way to introduce DB to a new generation, which I think is the reason why we've seen a DB resurgence in the first place. Kai had to happen for everything that came after it.
I'm surprised they haven't announced a kai version of the original DB series. We can only hope they'll redub and "remaster" it so that the same new generation can see how DB is just as good as Z.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary
That's because it never happened. The Kanzenban was running until 2004 (I think?). Dragon Ball didn't hit the height of its western popularity in 07 coinciding with the first affordable release of the entire series, the Orange Bricks. The video games were still popular until 07 or whereabouts. The Japanese home release didn't finish until just before Kai began. Also, Dragon Ball Heroes became a thing right around that time.gipset wrote:You guys are forgetting the fact that many people completely forgot DB existed until Kai popped up.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary
I'm not familiar with the sales figures of all these products in Japan, but you're saying that the popularity 10 years ago was as big as it is today?Jinzoningen MULE wrote:That's because it never happened. The Kanzenban was running until 2004 (I think?). Dragon Ball didn't hit the height of its western popularity in 07 coinciding with the first affordable release of the entire series, the Orange Bricks. The video games were still popular until 07 or whereabouts. The Japanese home release didn't finish until just before Kai began. Also, Dragon Ball Heroes became a thing right around that time.gipset wrote:You guys are forgetting the fact that many people completely forgot DB existed until Kai popped up.
Also, it doesn't seem like you're considering international markets either. I can only speak for the US, but DB was still relevant in 2010, but nothing like when it was airing on Toonami back in the day.
Lastly, when I said most people, I'm not talking about us nerds who post on message boards. I'm talking about your normal average person.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary
How could something aimed at your average casual be necessary? Also, I did mention the Orange Bricks and video games, which were popular among casual, western audience well in (and largely indifferent to) Kai's lifespan.gipset wrote:iit doesn't seem like you're considering international markets either. I can only speak for the US, but DB was still relevant in 2010, but nothing like when it was airing on Toonami back in the day.
Lastly, when I said most people, I'm not talking about us nerds who post on message boards. I'm talking about your normal average person.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary
I have two theories as to why this is the case.gipset wrote:I'm surprised they haven't announced a kai version of the original DB series. We can only hope they'll redub and "remaster" it so that the same new generation can see how DB is just as good as Z.
1. Kai wasn't a big success in Japan. The existing Kai merchandise was failing, and since the anime is seen as a promotional tool there was little incentive to carry on. When Kai ended TOEI were probably happy to just move on to a new Dragon Ball series with mostly new stories because Battle of Gods and Resurrection F showed that's where the money is at without the burden of funding the voice actors to record an optional audio track for the international market's home releases.
2. I know some have speculated that a Kai of the original Dragon Ball could be made for the international market (much like The Final Chapters was originally) but the only problem with that is that the original Dragon Ball doesn't have the selling power of Z so its doubtful it would be a profitable endeavour for the dubbing companies (including Funimation) that would be involved.
There would be some market for it certainly. I'd welcome an original series Kai with open arms and buy all the Blu-Rays but much like the Ocean Kai dub it would take a small miracle for it to happen.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary
There's an even bigger reason the a Kai of the old material wouldn't work. A ton of the comedy, mostly the visual humor, wouldn't fly with the current broadcast standards, not to mention the time slot. You'll also notice that in Kai, Gohan's genitals were censored, the same thing would likely be necessary here, and we all know how much the storyboarders loved Goku's penis.Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:Two reasons.gipset wrote:I'm surprised they haven't announced a kai version of the original DB series. We can only hope they'll redub and "remaster" it so that the same new generation can see how DB is just as good as Z.
1. Kai wasn't a big success in Japan. The existing Kai merchandise was failing, and since the anime is seen as a promotional tool there was little incentive to carry on.
2. I know some have speculated that a Kai of the original Dragon Ball could be made for the international market (much like The Final Chapters was originally) but the only problem with that is that the original Dragon Ball doesn't have the selling power of Z so its doubtful it would be a profitable endeavour for the dubbing companies (including Funimation) that would be involved.
There would be some market for it certainly. I'd welcome an original series Kai with open arms and buy all the Blu-Rays but much like the Ocean Kai dub it would take a small miracle for it to happen.
There are other reasons, as well, notably that they wouldn't be able to cut that much filler. The whole idea just doesn't work with the old material.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary
God, you're right! They would have to pull an Ocean and censor it to hell! I don't want any of this!Jinzoningen MULE wrote:You'll also notice that in Kai, Gohan's genitals were censored, the same thing would likely be necessary here, and we all know how much the storyboarders loved Goku's penis.
[spoiler][/spoiler] If it was released straight-to-home-video (Knowing Toei, it wont.) It probably would have no censorship! And lets hope they don't censor it just in case they pull a Boo Kai and have it replace a different show
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Re: Was Kai Necessary
It would be useless to Kai it only for a home release. They'd make no profit from it, and I doubt that merchandise sales would increase. Pre-Z Kai is just never happening.simtek34 wrote:If it was released straight-to-home-video (Knowing Toei, it wont.) It probably would have no censorship! And lets hope they don't censor it just in case they pull a Boo Kai and have it replace a different show
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Re: Was Kai Necessary
I'm not cause the companies behind the franchise act like it doesn't exist.gipset wrote:I'm surprised they haven't announced a kai version of the original DB series.
For the longest time DB has been treated as Goku's unimportant adventures as a kid so those companies have a major role to play in its lack of popularity.Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:The original Dragon Ball doesn't have the selling power of Z so its doubtful it would be a profitable endeavour for the companies that would be involved.
We thought that about the Buu saga so you never know but it's very less likely than Buu was.Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:I'd welcome an original series Kai with open arms and buy all the Blu-Rays but much like the Ocean Kai dub it would take a small miracle for it to happen.
If you skip the whole filler episodes then you'll get 133 which is 20 less than 153 so they'll probably be able to get it down to 120-125 episodes.Jinzoningen MULE wrote:They wouldn't be able to cut that much filler.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary
That's a ridiculously low amount of episodes cut. The way you phrased it made it sound like you disagreeing, but you've proved my point.sintzu wrote:If you skip the whole filler episodes then you'll get 133 which is 20 less than 153 so they'll probably be able to get it down to 120-125 episodes.Jinzoningen MULE wrote:They wouldn't be able to cut that much filler.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary
It's not much but it's better than nothing plus we'd get an HD remaster and a redub.Jinzoningen MULE wrote:That's a ridiculously low amount of episodes cut. The way you phrased it made it sound like you disagreeing, but you've proved my point.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary
Sure, and everyone gets free candy at the beginning of every week, and airports come with complimentary cotton candy, and there are free money stands around every corner.sintzu wrote:It's not much but it's better than nothing plus we'd get an HD remaster and a redub.Jinzoningen MULE wrote:That's a ridiculously low amount of episodes cut. The way you phrased it made it sound like you disagreeing, but you've proved my point.
You get the idea. It's a nice thought, but not practical.
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