The Fear of Toyble/Toyotaro Taking Toriyama's Place

[Xeztin]

I've seen a lot of fans be intimidated by Toriyama possibly one day stepping down and letting his presumed successor Toyotaro, take over the franchise as writer and or author. Most point to his AF Doujin, that Toyotaro penned under the name of Toyble as a sign that he'd be bad for the role. In my view Toyotaro is perhaps the only one capable of stepping in Toriyama's shoes well, let me rephrase that. No one can replace Akira Toriyama or his artistic genius but if it HAS to be someone, there is no better fit than Toyotaro. He literally knows the franchise inside and out, including things that aren't "canon" such as his multiple references to the movies in his Super manga. I've seen a lot say that his "AF" or "After the Future" doujin was a bunch of bad fan-fic ideas mashed together, but in my opinion it takes a lot of creative instinct, passion, and knowledge for the franchise to be able to make something like his doujin work.

In his doujin, he literally created other planes of existence, gave an plausible explanation to what happened to GT, jumped into the backstory of Dragons, and brought back various tactics such as the Z-Sword and it's sealing which was also brought back in Super years later. To put it short, I'd trust Toyotaro over Toei to handle the franchise anyday, he seems to be very passionate about the series and tries not to stray to far away from what Toriyama would do or at the very least, he tries to think like him. Not to mention, his art is improving like the "Zenkai" boost.

His work with Heroes and Super itself has been astonishing as well, so much so they are letting him design his own characters which look very close to being Toriyama like in my opinion. When he and Toriyama put their heads together, they really come up with some cool designs!

There are doubts about his storytelling even though his art is great, but if he can make those elements work in a doujin, I'd love to see what he could do with something official and a rich company backing him as he does it for a living.

[VegettoEX]

Toyotaro still does not have anatomy down the same way Toriyama does. The joke I remember most (didn't Ajay make a bunch of images?) was that Toyble/Toyotaro has no idea how necks work. I see it most in wrists and hands. And elbows. Actually, yeah, all joints.

That might be "minor" or "nitpicking", but it's the kind of thing that goes unnoticed when correctly and expertly done by... well, the experts. It unconsciously adds a flair of extreme competence.

Detractors might also argue that plenty of other fan manga artists and illustrators have the extreme and intimate knowledge of the series that Toyotaro does, and that it's simply he fell into the right place at the right time to express and showcase that in an official capacity. Well, them's the breaks sometimes, I guess.

There are certainly other very talented illustrators out there doing amazing work, but I'd also argue that some of them are doing it in certain ways that all but guarantee Shueisha will not hire them.

I personally think the greatest disservice is Ooishi getting stuck with superfluous "what if?" stories (well, namely Episode of Bardock) and an utterly pointless chibi-retelling. When she gets to tell her own stories (specifically looking at all the JVC Dragon Ball SD bonus chapters), they're delightfully self-aware and charming.

[Grimlock]

I don't know if I would want Toyotaro to be Toriyama's sucessor, but I would certainly choose him to write Dragon Ball Heroes. He worked before and knows that Heroes works with plausible what-ifs, so much that he himself created a legit one, so Toyotaro knows how things must be. I wouldn't have any qualms to select him to write a Dragon Ball Heroes-based series. His art improved by a huge margin since he started to draw Dragon Ball Super, so now his manga would be more appealing compared to Dragon Ball Heroes: Victory Mission.

Also, if he has some knowledge about Dragon Ball Online, then I'd make an exception and would like to see his take on it being a sequel to Dragon Ball series.

[Chuquita]

There're things I like (ssjg Gokû returning, the Mario Kart chapter) about Toyotaro and things I don't (an uninspired version of Zamasu and Gokû Black compared to Toei's version, shrinking Future Trunks' role in his own arc, that awful Vegeta of all people calling out Gokû last chapter and Toyotaro implying stuff to make Gokû look bad to what ends? Also the endless number of references from Z instead of coming up with his own) about him, but I'd consider dropping Super if he took over whole hog. He doesn't know how to keep his inner fan in check sometimes and it hurts the product.

I agree that he was probably just in the right place at the right time.

[mute_proxy]

Toyotaro still does not have anatomy down the same way Toriyama does. The joke I remember most (didn't Ajay make a bunch of images?) was that Toyble/Toyotaro has no idea how necks work. I see it most in wrists and hands. And elbows. Actually, yeah, all joints.

I always wondered what it was that bugged me so much about the manga, this is it. It's like an inexperienced artist trying to imitate the looks without exactly knowing the basics

[Xeztin]

Toyotaro still does not have anatomy down the same way Toriyama does. The joke I remember most (didn't Ajay make a bunch of images?) was that Toyble/Toyotaro has no idea how necks work. I see it most in wrists and hands. And elbows. Actually, yeah, all joints.

That might be "minor" or "nitpicking", but it's the kind of thing that goes unnoticed when correctly and expertly done by... well, the experts. It unconsciously adds a flair of extreme competence.

Detractors might also argue that plenty of other fan manga artists and illustrators have the extreme and intimate knowledge of the series that Toyotaro does, and that it's simply he fell into the right place at the right time to express and showcase that in an official capacity. Well, them's the breaks sometimes, I guess.

There are certainly other very talented illustrators out there doing amazing work, but I'd also argue that some of them are doing it in certain ways that all but guarantee Shueisha will not hire them.

I personally think the greatest disservice is Ooishi getting stuck with superfluous "what if?" stories (well, namely Episode of Bardock) and an utterly pointless chibi-retelling. When she gets to tell her own stories (specifically looking at all the JVC Dragon Ball SD bonus chapters), they're delightfully self-aware and charming.

I do wonder what they will do with Dragon Garow Lee next though I do agree, I'd like to see Ooishi try her own ideas as well. Sometimes it's hard to get your idea into someone else's head, perhaps that is why in the long run the Super manga and anime started to differ from one another despite trying to stay identical early on.

[sintzu]

So far he's done a way better job with Toriyama's plots than Toei so if they can't adapt then why would we trust them to write from the ground up ? I'll take my chances with him over them any day.

[Lord Beerus]

Toyotaro is very much a fan of the franchise and his love for Dragon Ball overflows into the manga with his call backs, homages, uses of gags and how he overall crafts and re-envisions the plot outline from Toriyama. Not to mention how much his art has improved since he has been handling Super. He just need to come out of his comfort zone when it comes to developing characters and creating more tension.

[Duo]

I generally embrace the work Toyotaro has done thus far, even though he does do some thing differently from Toriyama. Many of the frequent criticisms toward his work are shallow and silly (this thread being an exception thus far). However, I don't think any one person will end up being picked as a successor. There are already three artists publishing manga under the name of Dragon Ball, with varying levels of importance. There will probably be more brought it in the future, and there's nothing prevent current artists from getting more exciting and interesting stories to pen. Dragon Ball will probably be a collaborative franchise as the years go on, and that may well be for the best.

[VegettoEX]

There are already three artists publishing manga under the name of Dragon Ball

I count five artists currently being serialized with at least one on-going series right now (or in the case of Yamcha, juuuuust wrapped up):

Naho Ooishi (JSAT, Episode of Bardock, Dragon Ball SD)
Toyotaro (DBH: Victory Mission, Resurrection F, Dragon Ball Super)
Hiroshi Otoki (Dragon Ball Fusions)
Yoshitaka Nagayama (DBH: Charisma Mission, SDBH: Ultimate Charisma Mission, SDBH: Dark Demon Realm Mission)
Dragon Garow Lee (Yamcha)

Of these, only Otoki doesn't have a collected volume to their name (we know the Yamcha story is getting one), and I'd wager one is coming sooner than later.

There was also Katsuki Hirose's Discross manga that ran from 2015-2016.

[Duo]

Hiroshi Otoki (Dragon Ball Fusions)
Yoshitaka Nagayama (DBH: Charisma Mission, SDBH: Ultimate Charisma Mission, SDBH: Dark Demon Realm Mission)

I forget sometimes that there are official Dragon Ball stories being published that I have no interest in, but I am more than happy to be wrong on this point. A wide talent pool can only serve to benefit the fans.

[Zephyr]

I wouldn't terribly mind Toyotaro taking Toriyama's place. As has been said, I think it would be preferable to Toei. Though I don't know if he's the best guy for the job. I'm not sure that he can really capture Toriyama's sense of whimsy (not particularly sure who among these prospective successors does this best, to be honest), and I vastly prefer Dragon Garow Lee's art style (seems to harken more back to the 23rd TB/Saiyan/Namek days).

[emperior]

I really believe no one can continue Goku's story apart from Toriyama. I don't think Toyotaro would ever try to progress the characters or try something daring. He would just do repeats of older arcs with some fanservice thrown in the mix, while Toriyama doesn't really care about what fans want or expect to see, and he has shown it very well like when he made Vegeta dance like a idiot in BoG, or when he decided Goku never kissed Chi-Chi, or when he made Future Trunks entire timeline go boom. Dragon Ball and its characters are way too big for someone apart from Toriyama to touch.
Though Toyotaro could surely write his own Dragon Ball story in the future, but this would mean he shouldn't use Goku, Vegeta or any other of the well established characters, unless he starts writing full-on what-ifs stories.
As for his art, Toyotaro is a very talented artist, no doubt, or else Toriyama wouldn't have chosen him. If only Toriyama corrected his work more, the manga would look better. See what happened with Zamasu, who Toyotaro got so wrong at first that Toriyama had to correct it, but afterwards Zamasu always looks good in the manga, at least if we talk about the face. I would just like it if Toriyama drew Toyotaro more reference panels with the main characters so that Toyotaro could use those as reference to improve his art. I also wonder why the hell no one has corrected or asked Toyotaro to correct those horrible necks he draws, he should draw them less bulky, like how Toriyama draws (and used to draw) them. Sometimes Toyotaro really messes the anatomy up, so he's got definitely room for improvement.

[sintzu]

Dragon Ball and its characters are way too big for someone apart from Toriyama to touch.

DB is going to continue with or without Toriyama so it might as well be by someone who works closely with him. I do think that when he takes over, Toriyama will still supervise his work and maybe give some ideas here and there.

[BrolyKale]

I really believe no one can continue Goku's story apart from Toriyama. I don't think Toyotaro would ever try to progress the characters or try something daring. He would just do repeats of older arcs with some fanservice thrown in the mix, while Toriyama doesn't really care about what fans want or expect to see, and he has shown it very well like when he made Vegeta dance like a idiot in BoG, or when he decided Goku never kissed Chi-Chi, or when he made Future Trunks entire timeline go boom. Dragon Ball and its characters are way too big for someone apart from Toriyama to touch.
Though Toyotaro could surely write his own Dragon Ball story in the future, but this would mean he shouldn't use Goku, Vegeta or any other of the well established characters, unless he starts writing full-on what-ifs stories.
As for his art, Toyotaro is a very talented artist, no doubt, or else Toriyama wouldn't have chosen him. If only Toriyama corrected his work more, the manga would look better. See what happened with Zamasu, who Toyotaro got so wrong at first that Toriyama had to correct it, but afterwards Zamasu always looks good in the manga, at least if we talk about the face. I would just like it if Toriyama drew Toyotaro more reference panels with the main characters so that Toyotaro could use those as reference to improve his art. I also wonder why the hell no one has corrected or asked Toyotaro to correct those horrible necks he draws, he should draw them less bulky, like how Toriyama draws (and used to draw) them. Sometimes Toyotaro really messes the anatomy up, so he's got definitely room for improvement.

I so agree with you... people only want to see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear. This is why I like Toriyama.

[emperior]

Dragon Ball and its characters are way too big for someone apart from Toriyama to touch.

DB is going to continue with or without Toriyama so it might as well be by someone who works closely with him. I do think that when he takes over, Toriyama will still supervise his work and maybe give some ideas here and there.

Let Toriyama finish his story and then Toyotaro/Toei/DB Room can take the franchise over and write a collaborative story. But only Toriyama should touch Goku's story.

[LowRyder2005]

I'm kind of surprised Toyotaro gets some semi-memetic heat because of his models. I honestly didn't really see so many issues with it since he started adapting Super; using his stuff from the early 2000s when he made a fancomic may be fun for some laughs, but it is basically unrelated to his current tenure. Plus, I don't really remember Toriyama being always a paradigm in that regard, at least during the "Z" part -- someone grab the Goku with arms of different lenghts during his arrival on Namek for me.

There's still no comparison with Toriyama, though, even in my opinion. He was extremely inspired back in day, and his visuals were drop-dead gorgeous during Dragon Ball. The scenaries were always so crisp and detailed, the contrast between his (normally) "simple-looking" characters and the world was just so satisfying to me. From Namek onwards there's some occasional feeling of burnout occasionally seeping in. From a purely artistic standpoint, it's clear he had a great "vision" and was a manga artist who had mastered his art. Toyotaro... just lacks some "oomph", the same vision; his super-clean models are really pleasant to the eye, but I feel it's too much of a manneristic approach, too much reminiscent of borrowed anime aesthetics compared to Toriyama's.

[floofychan333]

I guess if somebody has to take over from Akira Toriyama then I imagine it has to be Toyotaro or Naho Ooishi. I kind of wish Toriyama was still drawing the manga but in a situation where the manga is the original source material I think it would be necessary for him to draw it.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

Out of all artists I've seen up to now, I'd say Young Jiji is the best one right now, and I'd love for him to replace Toyble as an official DB Super mangaka. He knows how to draw panels well. He has a strong sense of angle and composition. These are something Toyble is sorely missing.

[Chuquita]

Toriyama worked in architecture design or commercial design at some point, right? Maybe it's partly the specialised training he had that Toyotaro doesn't that accounts for stuff like the necks?