Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[Torturephile]

Some things are similar, some things are different. The new art style will take me some time to get used to like with modern Yamamuro's, but it's not bad. Just make the movie entertaining but not stupid.

[jeffbr92]

I don't understand why people are complaining about this. We already knew that Minus is canon, part of the main timeline, Toriyama's vision, or whatever. So, it being animated doesn't change anything.

To avoid repeating myself

I'm not catching what you're trying to conveying. Are you trying to say that because there's no canon, but this scene being here shows that it's in this specific continuity, it's bad?

Yes, because I do consider Super as part of the canon, but not Minus, so that's gonna be a trouble for me lol

My "someone's linking to my DB Minus post again" sense was tingling, and, sure enough, I was right!

How did you got it? lol

[SSJgogeto]

As there wasn't anything in the TV Special contradicting the manga

The final scene with Goku and Son Gohan contradicts the manga.

[Helios518]

To avoid repeating myself

I'm not catching what you're trying to conveying. Are you trying to say that because there's no canon, but this scene being here shows that it's in this specific continuity, it's bad?

Yes, because I do consider Super as part of the canon, but not Minus, so that's gonna be a trouble for me lol

I mean Toriyama is heavily involved in the movie, so it's natural for him to use his depiction of Bardock.

[jeffbr92]

The final scene with Goku and Son Gohan contradicts the manga.

How so?

I mean Toriyama is heavily involved in the movie, so it's natural for him to use his depiction of Bardock.

Which is sad.

[kizuki]

If there is that Goku and Bardock interaction in the film, taking what Toriyama did in DBM, I am fine with it. I didn't mind DBM. If anything, I think it was a short version of what Toriyama wanted out of Goku's "origin" story, and perhaps we will see the more fleshed out version of that vision in the film. It does irk me that it may contradict the Bardock Special (and I know the whole gimmick, I've been a fan since 1998 so leave the "It wasn't in the manga anyways" bombardments at the door), since I did enjoy it very much and still do, but in the end I still don't mind it being replaced or altered. It was a great piece of film, praised by the series creator himself, but in the end it's up to our dear Toriyama-sensei to do what he feels is right with anything that belongs to his story.

Now, for my one concern.

As long as it doesn't interfere with the "now" of the film and is more so for US as fans. Meaning, if it's a well-placed flashback to bring up some context to Goku's escape from Planet Vegeta before it was destroyed, and we see the two interacting on screen, albeit briefly, then that's fine. As long as somehow, someway Goku suddenly doesn't remember all of this out of nowhere. I don't THINK they'd do something like that, so I'm sure there is nothing to really worry about.

I'd rather that interaction between father and son, if it's there... and mother if they bother to bring Gine into it, be for us watching some part of the main character's past that is special to ONLY us and not the characters themselves currently.

[SSJgogeto]

How so?

In that scene Goku is a cute little baby, and in the manga he was a violent baby until he hit his head.

[jeffbr92]

In that scene Goku is a cute little baby, and in the manga he was a violent baby until he hit his head.

Is not like baby Goku couldn't kick Gohan's face the scene after, man

[Extreme_kai]

With Broly fighting Frieza, I wonder if maybe he and Paragus have been taking over some of the remnants of the Frieza Force and that's how they got that ship and the armor? Those shots of the pods had me wondering too. What if those aren't the past, but Paragus is a scientist creating new Saiyans in the present.

This is actually a great theory. I keep forgetting Freeza's been out of the picture for so long that it's plausible a small splinter group has been trying to usurp power over the remnants of his empire. I actually feel even more excited for the movie after reading this, thank you

[LightBing]

But, yes. It is a very, very fair criticism. Claiming it is immune from critical analysis because it is a "small special chapter" is an unfair defense. How Goku got the earth, the politics and decisions that led Freeza to destroying the Saiyans, and establishing Bardock and Gine as specific characters are all very complex issues to deal with individually. To try to squeeze all of that into a single chapter is completely asinine. It was a bad decision, and there was absolutely no way that anything good would come out of such a cram job. Anybody could have seen that. That does not give it a pass. If Toriyama really had a passion to tell this story, there is no way someone in his position couldn't have gotten a better medium in which to do it. The publishers would have eaten up the chance to publish a standalone volume of Goku's origins. And unlike Jaco, they wouldn't have had to dance around a Dragon Ball connection. They could have blasted it from every media source that Toriyama himself was doing this. But, no, they or he chose not to. And that was a bad decision. But even if Toriyama simply didn't have the opportunity for any more page space than that, it doesn't change anything. We can sympathize with bad decisions or creative limitations or executive meddling. But at the end of the day, a bad story is a bad story is a bad story, no matter the excuse. The reason does not matter.

On top of that, it doesn't hold any water because, limited as it is, the chapter wastes space like it thinks it has the run time of War and Peace. This chapter has a story to tell? Then why in the world does it waste four whole pages, a third of its entire space, on complete frivolities like Jaco going to earth, Freeza throwing in an out of left field reference to Super Saiyan God, and presenting Raditz as a kid? None of that has anything to do with the core of the story. For a story that has as much to do as this one needed, it is completely self-destructive to meander the way it does. No, it's not interested in telling a story. It's interested in fanservice. Super Saiyan God was the popular new transformation. Make sure it's mentioned. We never got to see Raditz as a kid in the Bardock Special. So while he has absolutely nothing to do with this story, let's waste a third of a page showing him. The fans will eat that stuff up because that's all they care about.

Isn't this about expectations? You even call it a fan-service story but you're evaluating it as if the story was making it be about more than it is. That's what I mean by "fair criticism", calling it a non-story or a "fan-service" is fair but going beyond that doesn't add anything. The story knows what it's doing, it has no interest in going further.
I don't think it's fair to evaluate a short 5 minutes movie in the same terms as a 2 hour one. Their scope was defined at the start and complaining about it is redundant.

Well, I wrote that post four years ago. Three years later, I rewrote the entire premise of my argument into a 30-minute-long video. I own Jaco. I've read the chapter. I had to re-read it for said video. And in between those times, I've experienced life, absorbed other media, traveled, basically moved past my initial read of DB Minus. In short, I've had plenty of time to reflect on it. And after all this time... it is still just as bad. If you like it, good for you. Honestly. Glad you enjoy it. I don't mind if you disagree with people's criticisms of it. However, I don't see why you feel the need to defend it to the point of dismissing anyone's criticisms of it as "invalid" just because you don't agree.

I apologize for calling your post emotional, that's was unfortunate of me. It's poignant and I stretched it to fit my intended point of calling out the empty "I hate this" posts.

I do maintain my point regarding Goku being "too special" critique, I do believe it to be an invalid point. I explain it why in the other post. Basically Goku's special either way but you're singling out this particular special negatively.
I don't think it's unfair to call it as I see it since I'm explaining why.

[SSJgogeto]

Is not like baby Goku couldn't kick Gohan's face the scene after, man

Yeah, but more in a playful way, not a violent way.

[Vijay]

Yeah...this is my opinion & all.

Same hype when BOG teaser aired back then. Goku standin top a cliff. HYPE!!!!

Title was Kami to Kami. A frickin GOD!!! HYPE!!!

Watched the film

Till date regretted why dafuq Egyptian Cat was allowed to DragonBall's lore

RoF had me feeling numb. Ressurectin a dead villain & cashin to nostalgia. Fine. Gave it a watch. Half-way....bored as hell

Now this..wait...where did all this began. Somethin called "Yamoshi" yes....

Then...teaser shown & I believe to be only 1 strongly against the lanky, TB-patient designed anorexic Goku & Veggie. More posters released & I kept mum. Just wait & watch style

Now a whole frickin trailer released & I was....unimpressed to the core.

You know its gonna suck when key-animation looked like in-between animation of late Uchiyama Masayuki & Ebisawa Yukio

Dare say even Tadayoshi Yamamuro & Shimanuki Mashashiro's in-between animation would put key animation on this latest....thing to shame

Charactwler Design. Out.
Animation. Out (I've watched better fan-made animation on Youtube)
Cinematography. Decent
Fight choreography: based on what's shown thus far. Garbage

I'd stick to Z's Broly trilogy lol

[Dragon Ball Gus]

You know what would be great? If this song done by FLOW was the theme song.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AGVwnL7mttQ

Who agrees with me?

[Saturnine]

It makes no sense to arbitrarily remove parts of Toriyama's work, because you don't like them. It's canon.

Don't push it, we all know that unlike Star Wars there's no canon in this franchise.

Yeah, and there are two Hells, one where Freeza hangs out with Cell and the Ginyus and has free rein to cause trouble, and another where he hangs down in a coccoon. Also, Yamcha > Olibu > Cell Games SSj Goku.

Please stop saying things like this. Filler writers clearly pulled some things out their asses without consulting it with Toriyama prior. That's why when later Toriyama came to telling those same stories, they were markedly different. Toriyama is the creator of the universe, while Toei's writers often show painfully lacking knowledge about it when writing their filler arcs. That's why we disregard filler for most purposes, especially power scaling. And yeah, that's why there is canon and non-canon stuff in Dragon Ball.

As for the trailer - just seen it! It was pretty dope, gotta analyze it more.

[Gaffer Tape]

Isn't this about expectations? You even call it a fan-service story but you're evaluating it as if the story was making it be about more than it is. That's what I mean by "fair criticism", calling it a non-story or a "fan-service" is fair but going beyond that doesn't add anything. The story knows what it's doing, it has no interest in going further.
I don't think it's fair to evaluate a short 5 minutes movie in the same terms as a 2 hour one. Their scope was defined at the start and complaining about it is redundant.

Do I think it's fair to evaluate a 5-minute movie the way I do a 2-hour one? Yes. Yes, I do. Because a piece of art's job is to engage me. A 5-minute movie can do that just as a 2-hour one can. The difference is is that a 5-minute movie can't tell the same kind of story as a 2-hour movie can. You are not going to be able to tell The Lord of the Rings with any emotional resonance if you cram it into a few pages. You can tell a brilliant story, a cathartic story, in a short subject. Just look at Pixar shorts, some of which can bring a tear to your eye. Hell, just look at the funny pages where artists have to fit an experience into three panels! But you have to understand the limitations of the medium and make a story that fits into that space. Dragon Ball Minus does not understand the difference between a 2-hour movie and a 5-minute short. It tries to cram an epic into a Bazooka Joe wrapper! It just can't work that way, and it doesn't work that way. Jaco, the work that DB Minus is affixed to, is telling a story of a much smaller scope than Dragon Ball Minus is, and yet it gets ten times the amount of room in which to do it!

I apologize for calling your post emotional, that's was unfortunate of me. It's poignant and I stretched it to fit my intended point of calling out the empty "I hate this" posts.

There's no need to apologize. It's not an insult. And I am emotional about Dragon Ball Minus. Again, art is meant to engage, meant to evoke an emotional response. I find the whole thing a damn shame. I wanted to like it, and it does frustrate me how epically it manages to fail. But that doesn't mean I can't evaluate a work with logic and a degree of objectivity.

I'd like to address your point of Goku being special, but I'm tired, and this is somewhat off the point of this topic anyway. Suffice it to say, I would prefer DB Minus be shoved into the forgotten dustbin of history. However, if this movie somehow manages to turn those story bullet points into something engaging, I will certainly concede that. I have my doubts because I find the plot, at its very core, to be flawed. But I do try to keep an open mind, and if it does, again, I will concede that. But it won't stop Dragon Ball Minus itself from being terrible.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

You know what would be great? If this song done by FLOW was the theme song.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AGVwnL7mttQ

Who agrees with me?

I would totally be down for FLOW to come back and do a song. JAM Project are who I'm hoping for the most to do the main song for the film. I just hope we don't get another track from an idol group like with 'F'. 'Pledge of Z' was so bad.

[Nightbane]

Yeah...this is my opinion & all.

Same hype when BOG teaser aired back then. Goku standin top a cliff. HYPE!!!!

Title was Kami to Kami. A frickin GOD!!! HYPE!!!

Watched the film

Till date regretted why dafuq Egyptian Cat was allowed to DragonBall's lore

RoF had me feeling numb. Ressurectin a dead villain & cashin to nostalgia. Fine. Gave it a watch. Half-way....bored as hell

Now this..wait...where did all this began. Somethin called "Yamoshi" yes....

Then...teaser shown & I believe to be only 1 strongly against the lanky, TB-patient designed anorexic Goku & Veggie. More posters released & I kept mum. Just wait & watch style

Now a whole frickin trailer released & I was....unimpressed to the core.

You know its gonna suck when key-animation looked like in-between animation of late Uchiyama Masayuki & Ebisawa Yukio

Dare say even Tadayoshi Yamamuro & Shimanuki Mashashiro's in-between animation would put key animation on this latest....thing to shame

Charactwler Design. Out.
Animation. Out (I've watched better fan-made animation on Youtube)
Cinematography. Decent
Fight choreography: based on what's shown thus far. Garbage

I'd stick to Z's Broly trilogy lol

Bro stop trolling, fan animation looks better? That's just factually not true, all you do is shit on Super anyways even though it's better than Z. Also Beerus is bad but Majin Buu, a pink bubblegum man is ok? Beerus is a great character man.

[Zelvin]

The anime apocalypse has begun. And Broly is its herald.
The First Horseman

[BakaManiaHD]

Yeah...this is my opinion & all.

Same hype when BOG teaser aired back then. Goku standin top a cliff. HYPE!!!!

Title was Kami to Kami. A frickin GOD!!! HYPE!!!

Watched the film

Till date regretted why dafuq Egyptian Cat was allowed to DragonBall's lore

RoF had me feeling numb. Ressurectin a dead villain & cashin to nostalgia. Fine. Gave it a watch. Half-way....bored as hell

Now this..wait...where did all this began. Somethin called "Yamoshi" yes....

Then...teaser shown & I believe to be only 1 strongly against the lanky, TB-patient designed anorexic Goku & Veggie. More posters released & I kept mum. Just wait & watch style

Now a whole frickin trailer released & I was....unimpressed to the core.

You know its gonna suck when key-animation looked like in-between animation of late Uchiyama Masayuki & Ebisawa Yukio

Dare say even Tadayoshi Yamamuro & Shimanuki Mashashiro's in-between animation would put key animation on this latest....thing to shame

Charactwler Design. Out.
Animation. Out (I've watched better fan-made animation on Youtube)
Cinematography. Decent
Fight choreography: based on what's shown thus far. Garbage

I'd stick to Z's Broly trilogy lol

Oh yeah, you're probably just trolling at this point. There's no way anyone can think that way

[Doctor.]

Honestly can't get excited at all. The animation looks great, but I am just not invested in anything this movie presents. Broly somehow looks even less interesting than before. He's just a serious savage-like Saiyan in his base form (which I guess is a breath of fresh air now, after the U6 Saiyans), which doesn't provide as much of an interesting contrast with his later forms and isn't as intriguing as Broly's older, more timid personality. I guess I can look forward to a new, improved backstory, but honestly Broly's backstory was never really bad; it was the fact that they did nothing interesting with the character beyond that point that was aggravating. At least his old story tied to the Bardock special, if this one ties to Minus then fuck me.

Beerus and Whis being in this film is just as much of a problem as it was in RF.

Freeza's nice, though. Probably the only thing I'm interested about in this film at this point. If Toriyama is even remotely interested in telling a story, then he'll take the chance to do something with Freeza other than shoehorn him into the movie so he jobs to Broly. But seeing as how the trailer focuses almost exclusively on action, I wouldn't expect the somewhat intriguing premise and potential it has to be utilized any better than it was in RF.

Yeah, this film is shaping up to be RF all over again. Just with better action. But if we've reached the point where flashy visuals is all it takes to excite this fandom, then I'm not sure I like the direction the franchise is headed.