Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Kenneth La Torre]

So we just got leaks of the new chapter and this goat dude seems like he will leave broly and jiren in the dust. Dude seems haxxed as hell.

[Sora Saiyan]

It’s looking likely that this movie is using a power similar to what the manga had shown for Jirens FP.
I think when it came to Jiren in the anime he was hyped up far too much. The manga hyped him up a little too, but there’s no statements which allude to Jiren being stronger than the likes of Vegetto when he’s massively suppressed (he’s never implied to be that strong in the manga I believe), and then with the hype implying he’s greater than all the GoD with his regular FP he then gets a monstrous power up which makes it undeniable when coupled with everything else.
We know he’s stronger than Belmod in both continuities, but in the mangas Beerus lost in an arm wrestle (btw this doesn’t mean you’d lose in a fight) to Quitela. Also the GoD match showed him as the most powerful, or second most. Lastly Jiren didn’t get another power up to rocket him even higher.

This all helps give room for Broly being stronger than Jiren in the mangas continuity. Jiren was definitely above Beerus in the anime IMO.

Vermoud in the manga, next to Beerus and Quitela, was one of the only ones not to be defeated (he pretended, at the end of the fight he was smiling). And he was also able to arrest all the gods (including Beerus himself) with his technique, so I would say that it is safe to say that he is in the same realm of power as Beerus and other GoDs.

Although it is not said explicitly that Jiren is stronger than Beerus as in the anime, in the manga this is strongly implied, so I would not put Jiren below Broly in the continuity of the manga.

Belmod dropped really early, he wasn’t injured due to that, also Liquiir could bust out of that bubble, so it wasn’t beyond Beerus either. Even so, ofcourse the GoD are relatively close to one another, but it seems that Beerus and Quitela are the top dogs. One on one Beerus probably beats them due to his UI technique. Honestly I don’t see how it’s strongly implied that Jiren is above Beerus. 1 GoD skirmish where they’re all just showing off their abilities isn’t anything to show how that was strongly implied. But judging from that battle Beerus was implied to be capable of doing serious damage to the GoD with 1 blast, that should speak volumes for who is the most powerful when it’s strictly to do with power. Then combined with how he managed to fight off all the gods single handedly, I’d say it seems like Beerus is comfortably the strongest in a one on one, but obviously we won’t know for sure until we get a statement surrounding the matter.

If there’s supplementary material supporting Broly being stronger than Jiren then I’d say it definitely doesn’t contradict the manga as Jiren wasn’t the same all powerful beast he was in the anime, and Beerus could easily be argued to be the top dog out of the GoD.

[SupremeKai25]

So we just got leaks of the new chapter and this goat dude seems like he will leave broly and jiren in the dust. Dude seems haxxed as hell.

Of course. The power creep is getting absurd. Who's next after that goat guy? A villain who can oneshot the Grand Priest?

[shadd21]

So we just got leaks of the new chapter and this goat dude seems like he will leave broly and jiren in the dust. Dude seems haxxed as hell.

What gives you that idea?

[WittyUsername]

It’s looking likely that this movie is using a power similar to what the manga had shown for Jirens FP.
I think when it came to Jiren in the anime he was hyped up far too much. The manga hyped him up a little too, but there’s no statements which allude to Jiren being stronger than the likes of Vegetto when he’s massively suppressed (he’s never implied to be that strong in the manga I believe), and then with the hype implying he’s greater than all the GoD with his regular FP he then gets a monstrous power up which makes it undeniable when coupled with everything else.
We know he’s stronger than Belmod in both continuities, but in the mangas Beerus lost in an arm wrestle (btw this doesn’t mean you’d lose in a fight) to Quitela. Also the GoD match showed him as the most powerful, or second most. Lastly Jiren didn’t get another power up to rocket him even higher.

This all helps give room for Broly being stronger than Jiren in the mangas continuity. Jiren was definitely above Beerus in the anime IMO.

Vermoud in the manga, next to Beerus and Quitela, was one of the only ones not to be defeated (he pretended, at the end of the fight he was smiling). And he was also able to arrest all the gods (including Beerus himself) with his technique, so I would say that it is safe to say that he is in the same realm of power as Beerus and other GoDs.

Although it is not said explicitly that Jiren is stronger than Beerus as in the anime, in the manga this is strongly implied, so I would not put Jiren below Broly in the continuity of the manga.

Belmod dropped really early, he wasn’t injured due to that, also Liquiir could bust out of that bubble, so it wasn’t beyond Beerus either. Even so, ofcourse the GoD are relatively close to one another, but it seems that Beerus and Quitela are the top dogs. One on one Beerus probably beats them due to his UI technique. Honestly I don’t see how it’s strongly implied that Jiren is above Beerus. 1 GoD skirmish where they’re all just showing off their abilities isn’t anything to show how that was strongly implied. But judging from that battle Beerus was implied to be capable of doing serious damage to the GoD with 1 blast, that should speak volumes for who is the most powerful when it’s strictly to do with power. Then combined with how he managed to fight off all the gods single handedly, I’d say it seems like Beerus is comfortably the strongest in a one on one, but obviously we won’t know for sure until we get a statement surrounding the matter.

If there’s supplementary material supporting Broly being stronger than Jiren then I’d say it definitely doesn’t contradict the manga as Jiren wasn’t the same all powerful beast he was in the anime, and Beerus could easily be argued to be the top dog out of the GoD.

Regardless of whether or not Beerus is the strongest of the GoDs, the fact that he was badly injured by the end of the fight would suggest that the others weren’t that far behind him. As much as I don’t like getting into battle power debates, if Jiren is stated to be stronger than his universe’s GoD, and said GoD was able to hold his own against the others, that would suggest that he would have to be somewhere around Beerus’ level.

[ZombieVito]

Ikari Broly initially seemed a good bit stronger than SSG Vegeta, imo. What with tanking his punch without even flinching(and this was after Vegeta had sensed Broly's spike in ki, so there would've been no reason for him to be pulling his punches), and sending him hurling across the battlefield with the strikes he landed. At the very least, Ikari Broly seemed very close to SSG Vegeta's level, which again, doesn't make sense if Ikari/Oozaru is still only a 10x amp.

Broly keeps getting stronger during the film.

[Miracles]

So we just got leaks of the new chapter and this goat dude seems like he will leave broly and jiren in the dust. Dude seems haxxed as hell.

What gives you that idea?

The current enemies power naturally escalates over the previous every arc. Beerus is obviously an exception cause his intro had to do with setting the story of Super up and placing him as Goku's goal.
Power inflation has always been a Dragonball story point and I think it is utterly laughable how people claim otherwise. For example, some believe Jiren is stronger than Broly because Broly didn't push Goku to use UI. How does that prove anything? If Goku went UI against Broly it would be stronger than the UI he used against Jiren. Simply for the fact that our heroes got stronger after the TOP. So the logic doesn't add up. Considering the fact that it took a full power of a fusion to defeat Broly that alone tells you Broly is stronger than anything in the TOP.

Now we have a new arc after the Broly saga, where it specifically stated last chapter that Goku and Vegeta emerged "stronger than ever" from the battle with Broly. With the new villain having a battle power that is formidable to a stronger than ever Goku and Vegeta. Not to mention his magic is top tier to couple his fighting power. This new villain will obviously be stronger than Broly. This is how DB story progression works. Goku has a goal, for story sake he has to reach the pinnacle and he won't stop growing cause his enemies every arc has to escalate in order to reach the top.

[Champa The Destroyer]

So we just got leaks of the new chapter and this goat dude seems like he will leave broly and jiren in the dust. Dude seems haxxed as hell.

Of course. The power creep is getting absurd. Who's next after that goat guy? A villain who can oneshot the Grand Priest?

From what I've seen, can't this guy essentially make Spirit Bombs and then eat them? I don't see UI doing that great against him, so one-shotting the Grand Priest might be possible in the future.

[Helios518]

The current enemies power naturally escalates over the previous every arc. Beerus is obviously an exception cause his intro had to do with setting the story of Super up and placing him as Goku's goal.
Power inflation has always been a Dragonball story point and I think it is utterly laughable how people claim otherwise. Considering the fact that it took a full power of a fusion to defeat Broli that alone tells you Broli is stronger than anything in the TOP.

Now we have a new arc after the Broli saga, where it specifically stated last chapter that Goku and Vegeta emerged "stronger than ever" from the battle with Broli. With the new villain having a battle power that is formidable to a stronger than ever Goku and Vegeta. Not to mention his magic is top tier to couple his fighting power. This new villain will obviously be stronger than Broli.

While I agree with the "current enemy > past enemy" mentality, your points backing it don't really work. For instance, "Considering the fact that it took a full power of a fusion to defeat Broly that alone tells you Broly is stronger than anything in the TOP." this reason alone doesn't mean that current SSB fusion > ToP UI. Besides, a true full power of the fusion would at least utilize SSBE and/or SSBKKx20.

Also the "stronger than ever" line doesn't hold much weight, because Goku and Vegeta are always "stronger than ever" in the same form compared to their past arc counterpart selves (even if it's by 1.1x) unless you want to really stretch it to believe current SSB Goku > ToP UI Goku.

[Miracles]

The current enemies power naturally escalates over the previous every arc. Beerus is obviously an exception cause his intro had to do with setting the story of Super up and placing him as Goku's goal.
Power inflation has always been a Dragonball story point and I think it is utterly laughable how people claim otherwise. Considering the fact that it took a full power of a fusion to defeat Broli that alone tells you Broli is stronger than anything in the TOP.

Now we have a new arc after the Broli saga, where it specifically stated last chapter that Goku and Vegeta emerged "stronger than ever" from the battle with Broli. With the new villain having a battle power that is formidable to a stronger than ever Goku and Vegeta. Not to mention his magic is top tier to couple his fighting power. This new villain will obviously be stronger than Broli.

While I agree with the "current enemy > past enemy" mentality, your points backing it don't really work. For instance, "Considering the fact that it took a full power of a fusion to defeat Broly that alone tells you Broly is stronger than anything in the TOP." this reason alone doesn't mean that current SSB fusion > ToP UI. Besides, a true full power of the fusion would at least utilize SSBE and/or SSBKKx20.

Also the "stronger than ever" line doesn't hold much weight, because Goku and Vegeta are always "stronger than ever" in the same form compared to their past arc counterpart selves (even if it's by 1.1x) unless you want to really stretch it to believe current SSB Goku > ToP UI Goku.

I only used the "stronger than ever" cliche line as another example of how the main's always increase each arc. Therefore villains have to be more formidable than the last one. Since current SSB is stronger than past TOP SSB, current Goku going UI would be greater than TOP UI. Proving alone that Broly faced a stronger Goku than Jiren despite not going UI. Which automatically usurps Jiren.

However, to your main point, I don't see how people think TOP UI would be stronger than a current blue fusion. It's like saying Super Saiyan three is stronger than Vegetto or Kid Buu is stronger than the ultimate fusion Buu. There is no way stronger iterations of Blue Goku and Vegeta stacked would lose to a past single entity in TOP UI Goku. It's simply not logical and defeats the purpose of the story of two of earth's greatest being at their strongest still having to combine their powers to defeat a single foe.

[Helios518]

The current enemies power naturally escalates over the previous every arc. Beerus is obviously an exception cause his intro had to do with setting the story of Super up and placing him as Goku's goal.
Power inflation has always been a Dragonball story point and I think it is utterly laughable how people claim otherwise. Considering the fact that it took a full power of a fusion to defeat Broli that alone tells you Broli is stronger than anything in the TOP.

Now we have a new arc after the Broli saga, where it specifically stated last chapter that Goku and Vegeta emerged "stronger than ever" from the battle with Broli. With the new villain having a battle power that is formidable to a stronger than ever Goku and Vegeta. Not to mention his magic is top tier to couple his fighting power. This new villain will obviously be stronger than Broli.

While I agree with the "current enemy > past enemy" mentality, your points backing it don't really work. For instance, "Considering the fact that it took a full power of a fusion to defeat Broly that alone tells you Broly is stronger than anything in the TOP." this reason alone doesn't mean that current SSB fusion > ToP UI. Besides, a true full power of the fusion would at least utilize SSBE and/or SSBKKx20.

Also the "stronger than ever" line doesn't hold much weight, because Goku and Vegeta are always "stronger than ever" in the same form compared to their past arc counterpart selves (even if it's by 1.1x) unless you want to really stretch it to believe current SSB Goku > ToP UI Goku.

1) I only used the "stronger than ever" cliche line as another example of how the main's always increase each arc. Therefore villains have to be more formidable than the last one. Since current SSB is stronger than past TOP SSB, current Goku going UI would be greater than TOP UI. Proving alone that Broly faced a stronger Goku than Jiren despite not going UI. Which automatically usurps Jiren.

2) However, to your main point, I don't see how people think TOP UI would be stronger than a current blue fusion. It's like saying Super Saiyan three is stronger than Vegetto or Kid Buu is stronger than the ultimate fusion Buu. There is no way stronger iterations of Blue Goku and Vegeta stacked would lose to a past single entity in UI Goku. It's simply not logical and defeats the purpose of the story of two of earth's greatest having to combine their powers to defeat a single foe.

1) If Broli matched a current UI Goku then you’ll be right about Broli being stronger than Geran, but that doesn’t happen and we’re left to way less direct comparisons.

2) Except this happened before with SSG being stronger than a SS3 Vegetto at the time. I surely wouldn’t be surprised if they’re doing the same with UI being stronger or matching SSB fusions sewing as how they keep treating the former as something special and much harder to accomplish than Vegeta and Goku fusing.

[Miracles]

While I agree with the "current enemy > past enemy" mentality, your points backing it don't really work. For instance, "Considering the fact that it took a full power of a fusion to defeat Broly that alone tells you Broly is stronger than anything in the TOP." this reason alone doesn't mean that current SSB fusion > ToP UI. Besides, a true full power of the fusion would at least utilize SSBE and/or SSBKKx20.

Also the "stronger than ever" line doesn't hold much weight, because Goku and Vegeta are always "stronger than ever" in the same form compared to their past arc counterpart selves (even if it's by 1.1x) unless you want to really stretch it to believe current SSB Goku > ToP UI Goku.

1) I only used the "stronger than ever" cliche line as another example of how the main's always increase each arc. Therefore villains have to be more formidable than the last one. Since current SSB is stronger than past TOP SSB, current Goku going UI would be greater than TOP UI. Proving alone that Broly faced a stronger Goku than Jiren despite not going UI. Which automatically usurps Jiren.

2) However, to your main point, I don't see how people think TOP UI would be stronger than a current blue fusion. It's like saying Super Saiyan three is stronger than Vegetto or Kid Buu is stronger than the ultimate fusion Buu. There is no way stronger iterations of Blue Goku and Vegeta stacked would lose to a past single entity in UI Goku. It's simply not logical and defeats the purpose of the story of two of earth's greatest having to combine their powers to defeat a single foe.

1) If Broli matched a current UI Goku then you’ll be right about Broli being stronger than Geran, but that doesn’t happen and we’re left to way less direct comparisons.

2) Except this happened before with SSG being stronger than a SS3 Vegetto at the time. I surely wouldn’t be surprised if they’re doing the same with UI being stronger or matching SSB fusions sewing as how they keep treating the former as something special and much harder to accomplish than Vegeta and Goku fusing.

That was a Vegetto without god powers. Vegetto was stronger than Blue KK Goku in the Zamas arc. Now we are talking a god Gogeta against a past TOP UI. Also, the fact that Broly faced a stronger Blue Goku than his TOP counterpart automatically means that his current UI form would be stronger than TOP UI. The power level jump would be higher than when it was in the TOP arc. Regardless if Goku used UI or not. Making Broly by default stronger than Jiren.

[TheSaiyanGod]

So we just got leaks of the new chapter and this goat dude seems like he will leave broly and jiren in the dust. Dude seems haxxed as hell.

What gives you that idea?

The current enemies power naturally escalates over the previous every arc. Beerus is obviously an exception cause his intro had to do with setting the story of Super up and placing him as Goku's goal.
Power inflation has always been a Dragonball story point and I think it is utterly laughable how people claim otherwise. For example, some believe Jiren is stronger than Broly because Broly didn't push Goku to use UI. How does that prove anything? If Goku went UI against Broly it would be stronger than the UI he used against Jiren. Simply for the fact that our heroes got stronger after the TOP. So the logic doesn't add up. Considering the fact that it took a full power of a fusion to defeat Broly that alone tells you Broly is stronger than anything in the TOP.

Now we have a new arc after the Broly saga, where it specifically stated last chapter that Goku and Vegeta emerged "stronger than ever" from the battle with Broly. With the new villain having a battle power that is formidable to a stronger than ever Goku and Vegeta. Not to mention his magic is top tier to couple his fighting power. This new villain will obviously be stronger than Broly. This is how DB story progression works. Goku has a goal, for story sake he has to reach the pinnacle and he won't stop growing cause his enemies every arc has to escalate in order to reach the top.

Except for the fact that we do not know how much time passed after the ToP and how much Goku and Vegeta got stronger after the tournament.

It is impossible to make any comparison between Broly and Jiren using Gogeta / MUI, simply because Gogeta destroyed Broly completely without receiving any hits. Even if MUI was weaker than Gogeta, that does not prove Broly is stronger because SSB Gogeta had absolutely no work with his enemy

I do not think it is as simple as current enemy> previous enemy.

Whenever this happened, we had proof of that. Androids defeating SSJ Vegeta (who was much stronger than the SSJ who defeated Freeza) and then being overtaken by Cell, then Boo being able to overcome Goku SSJ3, the most powerful transformation at that moment.

In that case, Broly did not show anything to be superior to Jiren, except for phrases of promotional materials (which do not have the same value as the film)

[Galan007]

Broly keeps getting stronger during the film.

Obviously.

But again, I'm talking about when Broly initially transformed into his Ikari form. He went from being ~ SSJ1 Vegeta at base, to seemingly on par with(if not superior to) SSG Vegeta immediately after transforming into his Ikari form.

[PFM18]

If this, as you said, is already evidence that Jiren> Beerus, then we do not need any statement comparing specifically the power of the two, because we already know the result.

Obviously we know the result, but we can't compare what exact verbatim was used to describe his superiority. If Goku said the same statement, but was definitive about it, then we could use this. For all we know, Goku's description of Jiren would also describe him as probably stronger than Beerus. But what we do know, is that all the promotional material, in several different sources, states Broly>everyone Goku has fought.

So, base Broly ~ SSJ1 Vegeta. However, when Broly went from base to Ikari(which was stated to be equal in power to Oozaru), he was immediately capable of steamrolling SSG Vegeta.

So is Broly's Ikari/Oozaru amp FAR beyond 10x, or is the SSG multiplier simply FAR less than has always been suspected?

I hold a similar to view as @Dagon on this. Goku was stated to have "made the SSG power his own", so it's my interpretation that because of that, using the SSG form doesn't yield the same boost as it did during BoG. The "post-ritual SSG", would have a far lesser multiplier as ritual SSG. We also see SSG yielding a fairly pedestrian boost compared to what it was during BoG, in the ToP when he goes SSJ2->SSG against Caulifla and Kale.

[Miracles]

What gives you that idea?

The current enemies power naturally escalates over the previous every arc. Beerus is obviously an exception cause his intro had to do with setting the story of Super up and placing him as Goku's goal.
Power inflation has always been a Dragonball story point and I think it is utterly laughable how people claim otherwise. For example, some believe Jiren is stronger than Broly because Broly didn't push Goku to use UI. How does that prove anything? If Goku went UI against Broly it would be stronger than the UI he used against Jiren. Simply for the fact that our heroes got stronger after the TOP. So the logic doesn't add up. Considering the fact that it took a full power of a fusion to defeat Broly that alone tells you Broly is stronger than anything in the TOP.

Now we have a new arc after the Broly saga, where it specifically stated last chapter that Goku and Vegeta emerged "stronger than ever" from the battle with Broly. With the new villain having a battle power that is formidable to a stronger than ever Goku and Vegeta. Not to mention his magic is top tier to couple his fighting power. This new villain will obviously be stronger than Broly. This is how DB story progression works. Goku has a goal, for story sake he has to reach the pinnacle and he won't stop growing cause his enemies every arc has to escalate in order to reach the top.

Except for the fact that we do not know how much time passed after the ToP and how much Goku and Vegeta got stronger after the tournament.

It is impossible to make any comparison between Broly and Jiren using Gogeta / MUI, simply because Gogeta destroyed Broly completely without receiving any hits. Even if MUI was weaker than Gogeta, that does not prove Broly is stronger because SSB Gogeta had absolutely no work with his enemy

I do not think it is as simple as current enemy> previous enemy.

Whenever this happened, we had proof of that. Androids defeating SSJ Vegeta (who was much stronger than the SSJ who defeated Freeza) and then being overtaken by Cell, then Boo being able to overcome Goku SSJ3, the most powerful transformation at that moment.

In that case, Broly did not show anything to be superior to Jiren, except for phrases of promotional materials (which do not have the same value as the film)

It doesn't matter if Goku and Vegeta got stronger by an inch. Each of their modes is greater than their TOP versions. In order to compensate Goku and vegeta's strength gains they must face a stronger villain. This is always a factual plot point of Dragonball's narrative. It can't be anything else. This means Broly would of faced a stronger UI version than the one Jiren fought. Automatically making Broly stronger than Jiren. A fusion is an overpowered trump card, there is no way from a story point of view or from logic that a past TOP UI would be stronger than a current multiplied Goku and Vegeta blue fusion.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Obviously we know the result, but we can't compare what exact verbatim was used to describe his superiority. If Goku said the same statement, but was definitive about it, then we could use this. For all we know, Goku's description of Jiren would also describe him as probably stronger than Beerus. But what we do know, is that all the promotional material, in several different sources, states Broly>everyone Goku has fought.

We've already discussed the promotional material for the film. If in some magazines it is said that Broly> all enemies of Goku, but the movie itself never says or implies this, what will we consider? The film has more value and is the material where we have the closest view of Toriyama (not magazines, as I said). Doesn't make sense consider statments of these materials, but not from the movie

And in the anime, where do we see Goku talking about Jiren being '' probably '' stronger than Beerus? We have the statement of Whis, who is definitely one of the most reliable characters regarding statements, and he says explicitly that Jiren> Beerus. It just does not happen with Broly.

I believe that this discussion is becoming redundant, because we are returning to the same points.

The current enemies power naturally escalates over the previous every arc. Beerus is obviously an exception cause his intro had to do with setting the story of Super up and placing him as Goku's goal.
Power inflation has always been a Dragonball story point and I think it is utterly laughable how people claim otherwise. For example, some believe Jiren is stronger than Broly because Broly didn't push Goku to use UI. How does that prove anything? If Goku went UI against Broly it would be stronger than the UI he used against Jiren. Simply for the fact that our heroes got stronger after the TOP. So the logic doesn't add up. Considering the fact that it took a full power of a fusion to defeat Broly that alone tells you Broly is stronger than anything in the TOP.

Now we have a new arc after the Broly saga, where it specifically stated last chapter that Goku and Vegeta emerged "stronger than ever" from the battle with Broly. With the new villain having a battle power that is formidable to a stronger than ever Goku and Vegeta. Not to mention his magic is top tier to couple his fighting power. This new villain will obviously be stronger than Broly. This is how DB story progression works. Goku has a goal, for story sake he has to reach the pinnacle and he won't stop growing cause his enemies every arc has to escalate in order to reach the top.

Except for the fact that we do not know how much time passed after the ToP and how much Goku and Vegeta got stronger after the tournament.

It is impossible to make any comparison between Broly and Jiren using Gogeta / MUI, simply because Gogeta destroyed Broly completely without receiving any hits. Even if MUI was weaker than Gogeta, that does not prove Broly is stronger because SSB Gogeta had absolutely no work with his enemy

I do not think it is as simple as current enemy> previous enemy.

Whenever this happened, we had proof of that. Androids defeating SSJ Vegeta (who was much stronger than the SSJ who defeated Freeza) and then being overtaken by Cell, then Boo being able to overcome Goku SSJ3, the most powerful transformation at that moment.

In that case, Broly did not show anything to be superior to Jiren, except for phrases of promotional materials (which do not have the same value as the film)

It doesn't matter if Goku and Vegeta got stronger by an inch. Each of their modes is greater than their TOP versions. In order to compensate Goku and vegeta's strength gains they must face a stronger villain. This is always a factual plot point of Dragonball's narrative. It can't be anything else. This means Broly would of faced a stronger UI version than the one Jiren fought. Automatically making Broly stronger than Jiren. A fusion is an overpowered trump card, there is no way from a story point of view or from logic that a past TOP UI would be stronger than a current multiplied Goku and Vegeta blue fusion.

Right, but we have absolutely no statement between Gogeta and MUI Goku to make any kind of comparison.

And just as it makes no sense to say that Jiren> Broly just because Goku did not use the MUI against Broly, it also makes no sense to say that Broly> Jiren just because Broly supposedly faced someone more powerful than MUI Goku (which makes no difference because Broly could not even touch SSB Gogeta)

[PFM18]

Doesn't make sense consider statments of these materials, but not from the movie

Nobody is ignoring statements from the movie. The other materials supplement the movie, not replace it.

And in the anime, where do we see Goku talking about Jiren being '' probably '' stronger than Beerus?

We don't. That's the point, we don't have an analogous statement to compare the verbatim to.

I believe that this discussion is becoming redundant, because we are returning to the same points.

Yeah. I just wanted to clarify why I brought up why a direct comparison is relevant because you didn't seem to understand what I was trying to get across.

[ZombieVito]

But again, I'm talking about when Broly initially transformed into his Ikari form. He went from being ~ SSJ1 Vegeta at base, to seemingly on par with(if not superior to) SSG Vegeta immediately after transforming into his Ikari form.

He obviously got another power up while transforming to his Rage mode.

[Sora Saiyan]

Belmod dropped really early, he wasn’t injured due to that, also Liquiir could bust out of that bubble, so it wasn’t beyond Beerus either. Even so, ofcourse the GoD are relatively close to one another, but it seems that Beerus and Quitela are the top dogs. One on one Beerus probably beats them due to his UI technique. Honestly I don’t see how it’s strongly implied that Jiren is above Beerus. 1 GoD skirmish where they’re all just showing off their abilities isn’t anything to show how that was strongly implied. But judging from that battle Beerus was implied to be capable of doing serious damage to the GoD with 1 blast, that should speak volumes for who is the most powerful when it’s strictly to do with power. Then combined with how he managed to fight off all the gods single handedly, I’d say it seems like Beerus is comfortably the strongest in a one on one, but obviously we won’t know for sure until we get a statement surrounding the matter.

If there’s supplementary material supporting Broly being stronger than Jiren then I’d say it definitely doesn’t contradict the manga as Jiren wasn’t the same all powerful beast he was in the anime, and Beerus could easily be argued to be the top dog out of the GoD.

Regardless of whether or not Beerus is the strongest of the GoDs, the fact that he was badly injured by the end of the fight would suggest that the others weren’t that far behind him. As much as I don’t like getting into battle power debates, if Jiren is stated to be stronger than his universe’s GoD, and said GoD was able to hold his own against the others, that would suggest that he would have to be somewhere around Beerus’ level.

Yeah, I said they were relatively close to one another. The thing is Beerus being stronger than Jiren still doesn’t contradict anything. I’ve pointed out reasons why Beerus is probably the strongest when it comes to strictly power, and with what was shown and stated that could still put Jiren below Beerus.
We don’t know for sure, but if there is something stating that Broly was more powerful than Jiren in the series, then it just means that Beerus is also stronger than Jiren... luckily the gap between Belmod and Jiren is never blown out of proportion in the manga so Beerus can still be above them both without it seeming like an asspull. So I guess if supplemtary material supports this then it doesn’t contradict the manga.

The reason why Beerus was probably so injured was because of the battle being against so many. If the first chapter was any indication, he seemed reasonably comfortable against them one on one; of course he ran into issues with the team up, but even with that the GoD were lucky that Sidra was there to put up a barrier. I know that they all didn’t team up on Beerus in the second part, but fighting in a battle royale still isn’t like fighting one on one so he could still get caught by attacks he wasn’t expecting, or even by attacks that weren’t intended for him.