Hugo Boss wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:05 pm
HeroR wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:47 pm
Why wouldn't the response in the clip be true? The only counterpart was Beerus who is far less trustworthy than Whis and it was never stated anywhere that Beerus' true power needed to be a secret.. There was never a hard counter to Whis' statement and if anything, the events of the TOP only confirmed Whis' statement. Also, that statement has nothing to do with how Goku's viewed Beerus and his full power since the point Whis was making that there maybe a mortal that is stronger than a God of Destruction, who Goku was still inferiority to. The whole thing reads like splitting hairs to try to find some kind of loophole why Whis' statement can't be taken at face value.
It’s a recurring plot point of DB Super that Beerus will be threatened by Goku and Vegeta in some part of the story, but there is still no clue of when this will happen. So far, this Whis’ claim is the only thing we have at the moment to measure Beerus and considering nothing really happened later to back it up, a flashback or something like that, I don’t see why it should be taken at face value. It’s not like there is evidence that Beerus have lied when he implied he hadn’t lost a single fight against the other Gods of Destruction. So.. what exactly can be inferred from that? Since they are in a disagreement, one of them is wrong, we don’t know which one.
A interesting aspect. First Whis told them a rumor, but presented it as a fact. It was only after he confirmed the rumor. Considering Beerus and Whis have been keeping some secrets from our friends, like Beerus’ power, and had revealed some of them, like Monaka being a fraud and the ToP being about Universe erasure, I can see them trying to picture Jiren as someone far more formidable than the idea of Monaka, at least to Goku. They have done it in the previous tournament, most likely did it again. The difference is that in the second time ironically the enemy was as strong as the team antecipated.
Goku can't used UI freely since it's tied to a transformation for him. Beerus shouldn't have any issue using UI at will since nothing suggests he needs to transform to used UI.
I don’t see why the difficulty in using Ultra Instinct should be related to it being accessible by transformation or not. I think it’s about how perfected the skill is for each one of them. Goku could have more efficiency than Beerus or vice-verse, depending on the cirscunstances.
That isn't the same as 'Beerus' true power is a secret'. It isn't like Whis is sworn or something to never reveal how strong Beerus is.
That Whis' claim is huge and is honestly all we really need since Whis would knows better than anyone outside of Toriyama himself where Beerus' power lies. So yeah, it should. be taken at face value, especially if you're willing to take Jiren > Belmond at face value since all we really have is a statement. Like we never seen Jiren fight Belmond.
This isn't about whether Beerus lost a battle. Whis' statement was 'this god is stronger than Beerus' and Beerus' only counter was 'it was only arm wrestling'. However, since Whis knows where Beerus' strength lies, he wouldn't need to see a full fight to know how strong he is compared to another God of Destruction. Like Vados more or less implied that Beerus > Champa despite all their on-screen fights ending in draws and their fights being stopped before they got out of hand.
Whis haven't been keeping a secret about Beerus' power. No one in the show asked him how strong Beerus was and Beerus never said anything about Whis keeping such a secret. It is only a 'secret' from us the audience and even then Whis more or less said this mortal, Jiren, is stronger than Beerus. So yeah, it wasn't a secret. Monaka's secret was quickly revealed by everyone except Goku and the same happened with the TOP.
I doubt Whis pulled a Monaka since a) Monaka only happened because of Beerus, b) Whis never supported the Monaka lie and even mocked Beerus for it, c) it was Goku who asked the question and Whis had no reason to give a white lie about it even as encouragement since he could have simply said 'I don't know, but why take the risk going in a man short', and d) Beerus himself seemed new to this rumor and didn't agree with Whis' assessment.
It is a transformation in Goku's case since not only does he gains UI in that form, he also gains a stupidly high increase in power and speed. UI shouldn't effects one's battle power. So for Beerus, his incomplete UI would be just like Omen, able to dodge, but not attack that well. If he could both attack and defend perfectly, than he mastered UI since UI for him has nothing to do with stamina or going into a transformation. He would just have it.
Kenneth La Torre wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:35 pm
Miracles wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:14 pm
Zamasu55 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:23 pm
No.
You're factually wrong. The plot itself requires Goku and Vegeta to grow stronger every arc. Stronger than their past arc selves due to the villains always being stronger than the last.
you are actually right. However, somepeople over-exagerate how strong they get. We have people who claim 123 blue goku > blue vegito.
Blue Goku from 123 probably is stronger than Vegito Blue based on statements from that episode. Namely, Shin called Jiren 'strong, plain and simple' in 110 when he glared the Spirit Bomb and said they have never faced anyone like him and he has seen Merged Zamasu, yet Jiren used more power in 123 to the point Belmond commented on it and Goku actually did better with no Blue Kaioken burst.
Since in the anime Vegito Blue was only a little stronger than Merged Zamasu, that means that Jiren in 110 was probably stronger than Vegito Blue. So scaling wise based on statements, Goku would be within the power range of Vegito Blue if not stronger.