At the lastest yeah, in BoG Roshi is the first one to say that Vegeta surpassed Goku, and he didn't know that Beerus had defeated SS3 Goku, so he had no way of knowing how Vegeta surpassed Goku unless he could sense ki.emperior wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:36 pm It’s even weirder because not only did Roshi retire in order to let the next generation take over (which was one of the main themes of the manga that Toriyama and company are completely forgetting nowadays) but he also was never even considered worthy of training under Kami, and he shouldn’t know of any other teachings Goku received besides Korin’s ones. Also, thinking about it, since when did Roshi even learn how to sense ki? Was that Battle of Gods?
And well, I agree about your points of Goku being weird in the manga in ToP, that point would only work if Goku wasn't training with Whis, since Goku has been relying on a way to power up and not much else around Boo saga (Even understimated how bad SS3 would fuck him up, and understimated Boo's healing), but he's been training with Whis who's been teaching him those basics, even at some point forbidding him from transforming while training, so suddenly making Goku be only "I NEED MORE POWER!" was odd... Still like that being reminded of other masters connect with UI, even if Kaio being there makes no sense if you know his actual training...
One thing worth keeping in mind though, Goku did go for "Even if it destroys my body, I need power to win!" before, which is what he did against Vegeta and Freeza when he used the highest Kaioken he had available, but it doesn't make much sense for him to do it to Jiren, against Vegeta and Freeza he was fighting some evil asshole who was going to kill everyone if they won, and while if Goku lost to Jiren everyone he knew would die, he doesn't point that out and just wants power to be able to beat Jiren, so against Vegeta and Freeza is was about stopping that huge threat, and against Jiren it's just his pride, funny that it could work if they just tweaked his motivation a bit lol.