Z or Original Dragon Ball? Which do you prefer and why?

[KBABZ]

[Witty User Name]

To this day I haven't watch or read OG Dragon Ball in it's entirety. I only got past Red Ribbon arc in the manga. Too busy with the ToP in Super at the moment!

[ABED]

It's not really at such a great risk. Goku spares him, but he was declared the best, and you know from that moment, even if we never see anything, it's all going to be okay. Goku defeated two Piccolos. It's not really a loose thread. That is closure in my book.

the story shatters the "climactic" feeling by having Roshi point out directly to the reader that it isn't the end, "not by a long shot!".

That feels less like shattering the climactic feeling and more like "Wait, stick around next week. All these threads have been tied up, but we're still coming back for more". And the end of the 23rd TB is absolutely a climax. Goku's quest to win the tournament is over.

[MasenkoHA]

To this day I haven't watch or read OG Dragon Ball in it's entirety. I only got past Red Ribbon arc in the manga. Too busy with the ToP in Super at the moment!

This is the most depressing thing I’ve read on this forum since the last most depressing thing I’ve read on this forum.

[kemuri07]

To this day I haven't watch or read OG Dragon Ball in it's entirety. I only got past Red Ribbon arc in the manga. Too busy with the ToP in Super at the moment!

This is the most depressing thing I’ve read on this forum since the last most depressing thing I’ve read on this forum.

Considering the fact that DB is basicaly better than anything Super has put out (including the manga which I do kinda like), yeah I'm with you.

I think as I grow older, Dragon Ball probably takes the lead despite Z being so damn influential. But OG DB doesn't have the baggage that Z has; it's pretty great all the way through. Also, someone already said it, but Goku is at his best in DB. In the Piccolo Daiamo saga where for the first time he actually has to fight someone that could kill him, and it's thrilling to actually take things seriously for once. And then in the Piccolo Jr. Saga, I completely forget how charismatic Goku can be and he is absolutely brimming with a sort of confidence that rarely got seen even in Z.

[Witty User Name]

To this day I haven't watch or read OG Dragon Ball in it's entirety. I only got past Red Ribbon arc in the manga. Too busy with the ToP in Super at the moment!

This is the most depressing thing I’ve read on this forum since the last most depressing thing I’ve read on this forum.

Well, if it makes you feel better, I do plan on reading/watching the rest of OG Dragon Ball after I am done with Super. The problem is, I am at episode 126 and I can only watch 2 episodes per day!

[Dr. Casey]

If you really wanted me to pick a point where it becomes "the late years", I'd call the cutoff point the beginning of the 22nd Tenkaichi arc. Largely an arbitrary split, but to me, it was during the Red Ribbon arc that Dragon Ball stopped being a gag manga/anime. It still maintained its comedy roots all the way to the end (and into the modern day), but for me, it was in the Red Ribbon arc that it really stopps being a gag manga/anime, and I'd argue that's the crux of the "early years" vs "later years" "style".

I don't follow this part perfectly, since you say that the 22nd Budokai would be the cutoff point but then talk about how the Red Ribbon arc was significantly different from everything that came before. I agree with your assessment of the Red Ribbon arc, though. The original hunt for the Dragon Balls is a lighthearted adventure with comedy as one of its primary elements. The Red Ribbon arc is likewise a lighthearted adventure for the most part (the relatively somber Korin stretch notwithstanding, with the first Tao Pai Pai fight the first wholeheartedly dramatic part of the series), but comedy is just an element by this point rather than comedy being one of the primary genres, and the Red Ribbon arc is meant to be genuinely exciting the whole way through (as opposed to Pilaf, which aims at being fun rather than exciting). You're clearly expected to have some emotional investment in the story and its characters by this point, something which the Pilaf story arc doesn't really expect from the audience. There's nothing in Pilaf even vaguely on the level of Goku flying off on Kinto'un to wipe out the Red Ribbon Army Headquarters.

All that said though, if you average everything out, I do think Dragon Ball is significantly different from Dragon Ball Z - and I'm not speaking about tone here so much as two other elements.

Pacing would be the first one. This goes beyond things simply moving faster (though that's worth something as well), but affects the fundamental nature of the fights themselves. There's a vast difference between the fights of Z, which sometimes reach the double digits in terms of episode count, and 12 year old Goku effortlessly steamrolling the majority of his opponents and defeating them in a single episode; oftentimes with but one punch or Kamehameha. This applies much less to the original anime starting from the 22nd Budokai, but we're at roughly the 60 percent mark by the time that begins, so if you average everything out that first 60 percent still plays a large role in determining the overall nature of the original.

The second would be that DBZ is more of an ensemble cast, with characters aside from Goku taking center stage (and Goku being largely absent) for 10 or 20 or 30 episodes at a time. In the original Goku is in the driver's seat at all times, with him being much more the point-of-view character than anyone is in Z.

As for tone, I don't think I have much original to say. The series does indeed become much more sincere around the 22nd tournament and stays that way for the remainder of the story. Even the Buu arc, despite possessing much more in the way of comedic elements than Saiyan through Cell, still has a good deal of genuine tension and drama - something which could only rarely be found in the first ~80 episodes of Dragon Ball (a percentage of the series which is large enough that, if you compare the two anime, means that the original ends up being pound-for-pound much lighter than Z, even if the remaining 40 percent is much closer to Z).

And though this is really personal and subjective, the much longer story arcs of Z make it somewhat of a different experience to me compared to Dragon Ball. The fight against the Saibamen and the Saiyans lasting around 15 episodes, the stay on Planet Namek being more than 60 (41 through 106), the Android conflict not being wrapped up until 70 episodes later (Trunk first mentions them in 122 and Cell is finally killed in 191)... these make the Z story arcs feel much more exhausting and the victories so much more satisfying and well-earned. I wouldn't cite that as being an objective difference or anything since I know this paragraph/stance is entirely personal, but I do find Z's storytelling more effective in a sense. Dragon Ball's conflicts were wrapped up much more quickly, before a sense of fatigue could set in. The ending to Namek, on the other hand, feels incredibly cathartic because it's the end to a story that began with the death of Radditz more than a hundred episodes before. (Red Ribbon is also significantly long, but it's also extremely lighthearted compared to the marathon that is Radditz, Nappa and Vegeta, and Namek.)

Though if we're breaking it up as early as the 22nd Tenkaichi, I'd rather split it up into three periods, perhaps putting the third era starting at the Androids/Cell arc.

Why the Android arc, out of curiosity? I'd probably sequester Buu by itself as being the third period. Cell I'd link together more to Saiyan and Freeza, due to being in the same general time period and the old-timers (Tenshinhan, Yamcha, Chaozu) still having a presence in Cell before largely leaving the series entirely during Buu, which largely focused on a new set of characters: Goten, Videl, Mr. Satan, and so on.

[SSJmole]

To this day I haven't watch or read OG Dragon Ball in it's entirety. I only got past Red Ribbon arc in the manga. Too busy with the ToP in Super at the moment!

This is the most depressing thing I’ve read on this forum since the last most depressing thing I’ve read on this forum.

Considering the fact that DB is basicaly better than anything Super has put out (including the manga which I do kinda like), yeah I'm with you.

I think as I grow older, Dragon Ball probably takes the lead despite Z being so damn influential. But OG DB doesn't have the baggage that Z has; it's pretty great all the way through. Also, someone already said it, but Goku is at his best in DB. In the Piccolo Daiamo saga where for the first time he actually has to fight someone that could kill him, and it's thrilling to actually take things seriously for once. And then in the Piccolo Jr. Saga, I completely forget how charismatic Goku can be and he is absolutely brimming with a sort of confidence that rarely got seen even in Z.

Not a very high bar there.

GT is better than super and that's not even a good series.

Only Dragonball thing super is better than is evolution.

[Witty User Name]

To this day I haven't watch or read OG Dragon Ball in it's entirety. I only got past Red Ribbon arc in the manga. Too busy with the ToP in Super at the moment!

This is the most depressing thing I’ve read on this forum since the last most depressing thing I’ve read on this forum.

Then, considering the amount of nerdery and weirdness in here, it has to be VERYYYYYYYYYYYY depressing. Haha.

(Last comment on that post).

[Tylerman29]

To this day I haven't watch or read OG Dragon Ball in it's entirety. I only got past Red Ribbon arc in the manga. Too busy with the ToP in Super at the moment!

This is the most depressing thing I’ve read on this forum since the last most depressing thing I’ve read on this forum.

Then, considering the amount of nerdery and weirdness in here, it has to be VERYYYYYYYYYYYY depressing. Haha.

(Last comment on that post).

You could probably have them on the screen at the same time and not miss a thing from the ToP. It has no substance to it whatsoever. Just a really long toy commercial.

As for the OP: I love DB, Z, and GT but Z is by far the most entertaining for me. GT is a close second after the first 16 episodes.

[Sadala Elite]

I always thought OG DB was pretty overrated (but not bad by any means) by much of the US anime fandom.

It suffers many of the same writing issues that all of its sequels have, nothing before the Tien arc stands out overall, most of the supporting cast become nothing characters after their debut arcs and the only 2 to get any note worthy development in Early DB were Tien (easily the best written character pre-Z) and to a lesser extent Goku himself.

People like to talk about how Early DB fights were more skill based when in reality, every major conflict boiled down to who was stronger (not even teamwork). None of the special techiques featured in the series were ever shown to matter because they would all prove to be useless when applied to Goku or the main villains and be forgotten.

And outside of the Piccolo saga and a few moments before, I never saw Kid Goku as particularly interesting nor did I find much of the humor to be funny (I prefer wit over immature gags).

Its still better by miles than GT and both versions of Super though.

[MasenkoHA]

I always thought OG DB was pretty overrated (but not bad by any means) by much of the US anime fandom.

Most of the US anime fandom forgets Pre-Z Dragon Ball even exist. Not sure if that can be overrated.

most of the supporting cast become nothing characters after their debut arcs

Pretty much the only supporting cast member to become a nothing character after their debut arc is Oolong (and Chaozu but he got the short end of the stick in his debut arc)

and the only 2 to get any note worthy development in Early DB were Tien (easily the best written character pre-Z) and to a lesser extent Goku himself.

Krillin got plenty of development. By the end of the Tournament saga he’s almost nothing like how he was introduced. Even Bulma gets some degree of development showing more concern for Goku than she originally did if nothing else.

[ABED]

I never saw Kid Goku as particularly interesting

He's the same character from childhood to adult.

[Gligarman]

Having read the manga it really is just one continuous series to me so I can’t really pick a favorite.

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

Everything in DB feels so much more memorable. Not just story wise but also with how Toriyama arranged the panels on the page. For example, Krillin's death in the 22nd WMAT vs his death in the Namek Arc. Krillin leaving is basically a background event that the reader has no reason to assume will become crucial to the plot. But then there's a scream, everyone runs towards it and the reader gets a close up of Goku clutching the body of his dead friend. We even get a potential call back to it later during the Saiyan Arc where Yamcha (proving that no good deed goes unpunished) volunteers to go in Krillin's place, possibly thinking back to the 22nd WMAT where if his leg hadn't been broken and he had been the one to go back to the dressing room he would have died instead of Krillin.

Compare that to the Freeza fakeout, where the reader is already ill at ease because the fight has had so many turns and Freeza is himself given a full page spread. There's no shock or surprise to what happens next because we'd already seen it when it Freeza's entered his true form and killed Dende. It's just another in a whole bunch of grisly deaths caused by Freeza. The only thing memorable about Krillin's death here is that it leads to the Super Saiyan transformation.

Then there's the locations. In Z-era, the characters are so large that the enviornments they fight in don't matter so we never really get to see them. But in OG Dragon Ball the enviornment is still a potential threat so the characters have to adjust to it. And because the setting hasn't been fully overshadowed yet by his characters, Toriyama takes his time drawing everything out. It made Goku's travels instantly more relatable. I may not know what firing a ki blast is like but I do know what a forest smells like and what the heat of a desert feels like.

[ABED]

Toriyama wasn't just going for simple shock value with Kuririn's second death. There's a string of deaths that push Goku over the edge. It's escalating tension. First, Dende is killed, thus making healing impossible, then Vegeta is killed so Goku can't have his rematch. After Goku thought he won, Freeza returns and it's nothing but mounting tension. Piccolo is almost killed (we don't know he's alive yet), then Kuririn, then Freeza threatens Gohan. Freeza is picking Goku's friends off one by one in front of him. Instead of surprise, Toriyama went for suspense.

Then there's the locations. In Z-era, the characters are so large that the enviornments they fight in don't matter so we never really get to see them. But in OG Dragon Ball the enviornment is still a potential threat so the characters have to adjust to it. And because the setting hasn't been fully overshadowed yet by his characters, Toriyama takes his time drawing everything out. It made Goku's travels instantly more relatable. I may not know what firing a ki blast is like but I do know what a forest smells like and what the heat of a desert feels like.

I don't know what you mean by this. We do see the environments in DBZ. They do tend to be desolate or alien, though.

[KBABZ]

]I don't know what you mean by this. We do see the environments in DBZ. They do tend to be desolate or alien, though.

I think he's referring to how much you "sit" in them like Dragon Ball was more willing to do. I don't feel like I know as many of the new Z locations as I do, say, Muscle Tower, or the Tournament Grounds, because they were portrayed as more than just this week's battlefield even though they were ALL about fighting.

I would also argue that Goku was more upset about the pure senselessness of Vegeta's murder over the loss of his rival.

[ABED]

]I don't know what you mean by this. We do see the environments in DBZ. They do tend to be desolate or alien, though.

I think he's referring to how much you "sit" in them like Dragon Ball was more willing to do. I don't feel like I know as many of the new Z locations as I do, say, Muscle Tower, or the Tournament Grounds, because they were portrayed as more than just this week's battlefield even though they were ALL about fighting.

I would also argue that Goku was more upset about the pure senselessness of Vegeta's murder over the loss of his rival.

The two you listed are more than just untouched nature. Muscle Tower and the Tournament Grounds are a building and an arena.

[JustAlex1997]

Dragon Ball for its narrative and use of characters, but I still have nostalgia-based reasons for watching Dragon Ball Z more frequently.

[Planetnamek]

Z for me cause it's what I grew up watching and it gets going strong a lot quicker. I like original DB just fine but it's arcs don't stick in my mind quite as much as those in Z did.