"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Matches Malone]

Why do I feel like Whis wants to overthrow the Grand Priest..
Something is fishy here. Whis doesn't seem to care about anything.

As much as I'd like to see a twist like that, it's highly unlikely. It was established that angles have little to no feelings for anything, so it's not just Whis who acts like that.

[JulieYBM]

At the very least hoping U7 will now get in trouble for Merus' actions and be forced to face a new sort of threat.

[The Bastard.]

I must be in the minority but i LOVE this arc - have really enjoyed it and excited to see how it ends - Can't wait for September

Really liked the art of the fight between Moro and Merus - interested to see what the other Z Fighters do while Goku goes nuts - he clearly won't beat Moro on his own

The only way I see Gohan & Piccolo getting more relevance is splitting them up from Goku & Vegeta - I'd love to see them handle a situation without Vegeta and Goku (maybe they go to Universe 6 for some offshoot storyline) - I think it can happen or at least give them new abilities, etc

Pumped for the next chapter

You're in the minority but only in this forum that is full of nostalgia and petty criticism.

This was a crazy good chapter, Whis playing Beerus, Merus doing something that he shouldn't done because he sees what the humans do to protect what they love, giving up everything they can to make things right and learning to love mortals, the completely opposite of Zamasu's disdain for the way mortals behaves, the two looked at the same mortals and came out with different conclusions. Moro is not a great villain, but he's better than Buu and a little below Cell at least for me and in the way he fits the chapter.

And maybe we can see Gohan reaching new levels in his own way but I don't know how, anyways, I understand this is a Goku show and I'm fine with it.


Also, Whis does care a little bit about Merus, and that's why he let Meerus do what he did, Meerus sacrificed himself for the things he believed in, and Whis is fine with that, it's Beerus that will have to take the fall anyways, it's his job to do and he never does.

[Block88]

Why do I feel like Whis wants to overthrow the Grand Priest..
Something is fishy here. Whis doesn't seem to care about anything.

Why would you say that the grand priest actually cares about his children

[The Undying]

I liked this chapter quite a bit.

With Merus, throughout his character arc we've gradually gone from this generic Gary Stu space hero to a pretty compelling protagonist in his own right. I've said it before, but I'm totally on board with how his internal conflict between his role as an Angel and his role as a Galactic Patrolman actively serviced the plot's progression, his mentor-student relationship with Goku, and one of the arc's central messages about going against one's principles to help those in need; a theme also relevant to Vegeta's development. This isn't just great character writing and closure for Merus, it lends to Goku's significance outside of "good guy beats up bad guy" shenanigans while tying their dynamic into the larger conflict. Superb stuff all around. If these plot threads were more succinct and the pacing felt as brisk as the manga's other story arcs without any meandering filler, the entire Galactic Patrol arc would have been considerably better than it turned out to be.

If Toyotaro's taking the next chapter where I think he's taking it, the "callback" to Goku's first-ever instance of going Super Saiyan on Namek is actually a pretty clever one and much more than a surface level reference. Merus's goal here was to complete their training, but as clarified earlier, the key to that training is maintaining self-control in the face of a shock to Goku's emotions - the antithesis to Super Saiyan. If Goku proceeds to unlock the completed stage of Ultra Instinct by not getting angry next month, it'd serve as a nice culmination of that particular narrative thread while subverting the idea that it's just a retread of the Freeza arc: Toyotaro isn't just drawing a comparison to that moment, he's contrasting them to lead Goku in the opposite direction. I think that's a reasonable assumption at this point, and damn if it isn't a Toriyama-like beat.

Even the smaller character interactions were on-point. Beerus finding this whole thing a hassle and only caring about snacks is 100% Beerus. Jaco being confused and constantly demanding everyone to explain themselves in an otherwise dramatic moment is 100% Jaco. Gohan requesting that Dende heal him last is 100% Gohan. These aren't poignant, nor are they particularly meant to be, but they add a lot of flavor to some fairly straightforward beats.

The art has been outstanding across the board recently, at least by the Super manga's standards. Lots of relaxed, fluid movement, more attention to detail than a lot of the manga's previous chapters, effective emphasis on facial expressions. Aesthetics always work more substantively when they enhance the story being told, and they do so in spades here.

It's worth clarifying that, unlike with Toei's bloated, incoherent version of Super, I've never taken the extreme position that this arc is outright terrible. I just don't think it's consistently (or at least near consistently) good, due in part to being marred by an almost equal mix of fairly decent chapters and average/bad ones. I look forward to analyzing it again in a single sitting when it's over, but my hopes aren't especially high that the story progression will feel any less uneven on subsequent readthroughs.

Still, this chapter is good. Great, even. The pattern so far dictates that the next one might be significantly less good, so I'd hope that's not the case come September.

[DevilKing99]

I must be in the minority but i LOVE this arc - have really enjoyed it and excited to see how it ends - Can't wait for September

Really liked the art of the fight between Moro and Merus - interested to see what the other Z Fighters do while Goku goes nuts - he clearly won't beat Moro on his own

The only way I see Gohan & Piccolo getting more relevance is splitting them up from Goku & Vegeta - I'd love to see them handle a situation without Vegeta and Goku (maybe they go to Universe 6 for some offshoot storyline) - I think it can happen or at least give them new abilities, etc

Pumped for the next chapter

While I'm not that big of this arc but the vast majority do like it though, my group is the that's in the minority, most of the comments I have seen are very positive, towards this chapter.

I think the main reason why I don't like it is that I'm bored with U7 at this point.

The arc is basically over, Moro looked like he damn near died from that punch Merus gave him, and lost all of his powers from fusing, Beerus, Goku and Vegeta can now stomp him, especially with 17, Gohan or Buu helping them out.

[Xeogran]

Why do I feel like Whis wants to overthrow the Grand Priest..
Something is fishy here. Whis doesn't seem to care about anything.

Why would you say that the grand priest actually cares about his children

The Grand Priest does, but Whis proved he does not. This chapter showed glimpses of his unlikable side.

[Trouser]

Nobody cares about Merus. This saga is... ugh.

[Block88]

Anyways this chapter proves how beerus just sucks at his job once again and deserves whatever punishment that comes his way

[TobyS]

Nobody cares about Merus. This saga is... ugh.

Speak for yourself.
I grew to like him.

[OhHiRenan]

I'm surprised at how much I grew to like Merus, but it helps that he's given Goku some of his best character moments in Dragon Ball Super. I really liked what we saw of their training and I loved their flashback conversation this chapter. I'm not sure how thrilled I am about Ultra Instinct being triggered by high emotions, but I'll reserve my full judgements on that until the next chapter.

[mute_proxy]

The Grand Priest does, but Whis proved he does not. This chapter showed glimpses of his unlikable side.

This chapter also shows that there's some kind of a catch, and Whis knows of it.

[emperior]

What a wonderful chapter. Toyotaro has been on an incredible streak recently! (Even art-wise!)

I haven’t had chills by reading/watching a new Dragon Ball story ever since episode 131 of Super.
I really liked how Toyotaro handled Merus’ story. Really really well done stuff. This chapter’s dialogue was particularly excellent, especially the interaction between Merus and Goku in the flashback.
I really don’t think Merus’ send off could have been handled any better.

And next month is shaping up to be another incredible chapter.

[Matches Malone]

I must be in the minority but i LOVE this arc - have really enjoyed it and excited to see how it ends - Can't wait for September

What a wonderful chapter. Toyotaro has been on an incredible streak recently! (Even art-wise!)

It's definitely a great chapter, one of the best. Apart from a few pacing issues, this arc has been amazing, and hopefully it's the beginning of things to come. I really hope Goku knocks it out of the park with MUI, as Merus' death shouldn't be for nothing.

[Grand Marshal 1]

This was interesting.

Seeing how Beerus didn't die from freaking out, the Grand Priest will most definitely not erase them for letting Merus go. Seeing the Grand Priest always came to like U, I think they'll get away with it.

But without Merus finishing his Angel Training it's possible our heroes are introduced to a new universe to protect until a new replacement angel is found ()

But the question does rise on how strong will the next villain be in order to raise the stakes. We are clearly hitting the ceiling in power. Moro despite lacking his copy abilities, can still absorb energy (although this has been countered by speed) and is marginally stronger than anyone else. With Vegeta retaining his Spirit Control instead of losing it to Moro, I wonder how the Manga will proceed after this arc.

[Matches Malone]

With Vegeta retaining his Spirit Control instead of losing it to Moro, I wonder how the Manga will proceed after this arc.

Speaking of Vegeta, does anyone think he'll separate Moro or will MUI Goku kill him once and for all ? I personally don't think the idea of separating 2 beings would've been introduced unless it was going to be used.

This chapter also shows that there's some kind of a catch, and Whis knows of it.

As great of a death as it was, I think there might be some way to bring him back, maybe without his angle powers as some suggested.

Nobody cares about Merus.

I wasn't the biggest fan, but this chapter completely changed my mind about him. He's without a doubt a great written character.

[Trouser]

Nobody cares about Merus. This saga is... ugh.

Speak for yourself.
I grew to like him.

I don't care. What did he do? What makes you care about him?

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Anyways this chapter proves how beerus just sucks at his job once again and deserves whatever punishment that comes his way

This chapter basically is :Beerus sucks at his job, reason 657. If Merus dying is permanent, the GP is going to have a word with Whis and Beerus by the end of the arc....

[HeroR]

What makes you think its Beerus job to destroy mortals like Moro? His job is to keep balance in the universe by destroying planets, not to baby sit mortals.

It is literally said in the Future Trunks Saga that part of the job of being a God of Destruction is to kill mortals who abused the knowledge of the gods. This was explained by Gowasu to Zamasu. The universes with the best mortal rating have the gods who personally destroy evil and/or low level planets. Even in the Super manga, Kibito outright said that Beerus should have been the one to kill Buu, but he was asleep.

So yes. It's literally his job to 'baby' mortals.

What knowledge of the gods is Moro abusing? It's been a long time since I've watched Super and I don't remember Gowasu and Zamasu talking about abusing knowledge of the gods, do you remember the episode?

He is using his god giving knowledge to used magic to eat planets created by the gods. 'Knowledge of the gods' is shorthand for mortals with intelligence. Namely, beings like us we can make decisions outside of nature unlike say your dog.

This was talked about several times. Namely, in Episode 54 of Super, Zamasu suggests wiping the Babari Gowaru says that isn't their role and that was the thinking of a God of Destruction. Furthermore, in Episode 53 when we met Zamasu, Gowasu directly says that only the God of Destruction can interfere with mortal affairs and the role of the Supreme Kai was only to watch and guide mortals, but never interfere. So in actuality, the Grand Supreme Kai broke this rule by dealing with Moro the first time, which unfortunately had to happened since Beerus just won't do his job. Same with Buu in which the Super manga directly stats was Beerus' duty to kill.

Also, in Toei's website talking about the different Gods of Destruction, it is said that the god with the best mortal rankings were universes where the Gods of Destruction not only worked with their Supreme Kai, but directly destroyed evil or unwanted beings. This is also highlighted in the Supreme manga where Sidra had to make a choice to destroy a planet that was beyond redemption.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Anyways this chapter proves how beerus just sucks at his job once again and deserves whatever punishment that comes his way

This chapter basically is :Beerus sucks at his job, reason 657. If Merus dying is permanent, the GP is going to have a word with Whis and Beerus by the end of the arc....

Doesn't look like an issue that has Beerus on the edge. He won't speak to the Omni-King, he will speak with the Grand Priest on an Angel. A rather specific topic.

We have seen Beerus more terrified before. This is clearly him being annoyed at sitting down and explaining that Merus escaped Whis', by extension his, supervision, leading to him breaking the law and getting erased.

The Grand Priest shouldn't be the one to judge which Destroyer is fit for their work. Only Zeno does.