ABED wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:13 pmWhen was the last time Yamcha did anything meaningful in the story?
That's not what an asspull is and that term is nonsense anyway. There are plenty of other terms one could use like "contrivance" or "deus ex machina". 17's role in the story is no less organic than your idea for Yamcha. It's the end of the world. Why wouldn't 18 suggest her brother? And since 18 and 17 had anything to do for years that's all the more reason to bring him back. That's a very natural and relatable story to tell.
It’s more that Yamcha is
actually there in the first place, and if I recall correctly it was Goku’s idea to ask 17, so it’s definitely an ass-pull in the worst way.
Didn’t mean to offend if 17 is your favourite character - for me, there were just more interesting stories to tell.
TobyS wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:53 pmI agree Rishis inclusion and Yamchas non clusion in combination was the insult. IDC what off screen training he did.
He never trained with Kami or Kaio, Yamcha surpassed him as early as the 23rd Budokai by his own admission.
In fact I could actually see Yamcha doing Rishis manga roll not because he's a better martial arts master than Goku or Ten or Piccolo, but precisely because he hasn't grown to favour raw power and transformations like Roshi accused Goku of, he could even say, “Don't you remember our master's lessons?” or something. A fellow turtle school student now also a master teaching a forgotten lesson to his otherwise superior but flakey buddy... But alas.
I like your idea a lot - my pitch would be to have Krillin, Tenshinhan and Yamcha acknowledge they’re likely going to be outmatched individually, and so decide to use their collective skill, experience, etc. to work as a unit throughout the tournament. It would work well, with the three of them eliminating several fighters together, until Krillin and Tien themselves are eliminated.
Yamcha manages to escape elimination, but this puts him in a position where he has to stand on his own two feet. While I wouldn’t have him doing anything ridiculous like owning Jiren, from that point he would essentially play the same role Roshi did in the TOP, proving his usefulness by helping his teammates and eliminating a few foes in his own right before being defeated.
I’d put either Son Gohan, Eighteen, Piccolo or Majin Boo in 17s role at the end, personally. The waisting of 18 as a character in the TOP in particular was especially galling - in a series that is so lacking in female representation, you’ve got a badass, established female character organically built into the story, so why not actually use her! Instead, she spent her entire section of the story basically as a liability, and constantly needed to be saved by either Krillin, 17 or even Son Goku.
And yeah, Roshi’s inclusion was just dumb. I didn’t have an issue with him taking part in Resurrection F or in the Moro arc, but him actually being chosen over Yamcha? Come on now.
