"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Sora Saiyan]

I'm intrigued with the wording of the dragons wish. "I am able to multiply your power by condensing any and all power you could have accumulated in your life time."
Could it be that the "any and all" and "could have" also signifies abilities he may not have actually learned, but he has the potential too i.e. Granolah meets somebody, or multiple people who could teach him masenko and kamehameha, kaoiken and the genki dama and even hakai or UI. He has the potential to learn all of these abilities, but he makes a choice and only learns say Khh, Kk, and Hakai, but not Masenko, GD and UI. In this scenario its possible that the dragons wish could be referring to him now knowing both. "Any and all power you could have accumulated in your lifetime". The wording of any and all would fit for a scenario like the one I mentioned above, he had the potential for every ability, but didn't learn them all. The ones that he didn't learn sit under the umbrella of "any" (any power he could have learned), and the ones he did learn sit under the umbrella of "all" (all powers he would've learned within his lifetime). So if that is actually the case the wish should be easier to digest, as it now involves chance encounters that somebody as travelled as Granolah may encounter in his life, coupled with his life span and thirst for power.

But on the other hand I may be reading way too far into this, and it's exclusively battle power... but then why does he know Hakai

[Gt91]

Does this make Granola... a Super Cereal?

Ahahah, it's beautiful!

[Cipher]

I'm in such a strange place with this manga right now. This was a very well put together chapter, it feels like it will translate well to a movie if it gets one, but it checks barely any of my personal boxes of "plot points in Dragon Ball that get me invested" so I'm left feeling decidedly neutral. I can feel confident recommending it to people at least.

This level of prolonged setup is certainly out of DB’s, and especially DBS’, usual wheelhouse, but it’s refreshing at the same time, I feel.

Thoughts on 70:

• Every scene Toyotaro gives us with the Oracle Fish is a weird delight, such as him refusing to tell Goku and Vegeta Granolah’s identity because they’ll just throw a fit, then abruptly hovering off this month.
• Granolah’s fight with the Heatas is really well done, and free of any of the usual nitpicks with over-paneled movement. Everything feels distinct and snappy.
• I wonder if confirming the existence of DBs on Cereal is going to come back to bite Granolah. Even if they wouldn’t make the same wish Granolah did, they certainly hold value for the Heatas.
• I probably feel worse for Monite than I did for Gowasu.
• I’m beginning to doubt whether Freeza will actually show up at all. He could just be the arc’s Godot.

[Soldierofficial]

This is literally the worst theory I have read so far. And it’s 100% certainly false.

For starters,

UI and Hakai are totally opposite states and cannot even be combined!

Secondly, why would he even NEED UI??? With this much power, he doesn’t need it at all, just like Jiren and Broly didn’t need it. It goes against their nature. They are “powerhouses” by definition. And Granolah is no different. He’s even far more of a powerhouse than them. Considering he “wished” to get the highest powerlevel in Universe 7. He now has the highest amount of ki, which should naturally increase his SPEED to that level aswell! He didn’t get physically bigger either, so there is nothing slowing down his speed!

I've never read so much nonsense in my life.

UI is one of the most useful techniques in the series, an insane amp in power, speed and reactions, it will always be useful no matter how strong you are, your theory clearly contradicts many official statements.

“Nonsense”???

So agreeing with the officially given definitions of both states is nonsense???

UI = Thinking about nothing.

Hakai = Thinking about destruction.

They are two totally different and opposite states of mind, hence cannot be combined in any possible way.

Because to take on the UI form, you have to think about nothing..

While to take on the Destruction form, you have to think about total destruction..

Therefore, one has to make a choice..

Either you think about nothing and gain UI.. “OR” You think about total destruction and gain Hakai powers.. It’s one or the other, they cannot be combined.

They are two different and opposite mental states..

What facts? What you say contradicts what is seen in the story, Goku showed that it's possible to use UI and Hakai at the same time.

I mean, you cannot say that Goku did NOT use Hakai while in Ultra Instinct in this page. It's the same effect as when he tried to use it against Zamasu, the same effect when Beerus used against Zamasu.

That alone indicates you can combine the two.

It doesn’t indicate anything.

Basically E = MC2

Hakai is the ability to entirely erase things from existence. The energy doesn't come from the user himself, as in it’s not you throwing some kind of beam or kiai at the object. You simply erase the object from reality and when the object is erased it produces the explosion. The explosion doesn't come from an attack but from something being wiped out of existence.
The one that leaves sand instead of an explosion is just a lower level of hakai that sure does destroy things but not entirely, it doesn't erase you completely from reality, it reduces you to sand. The hakai that doesn't explode is a proper disintegration.
The hakai that does explode, is a legit reality warping ability that can literally delete things from reality itself leaving nothing.
(From the explanations beerus gave this chapter and past chapter).

It seems that the rumors are true, you really steal comments from NarutoForums.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

So Elec plans to manipulate Granolah into fighting Goku and Vegeta, members of the Saiyan race that did awful things to him in the past... This is literally the same premise as Super: Broly. Even the last page resembles some of the promo from the film.

Besides that, I did enjoy this month's chapter. I think I've seen enough of Goku and Vegeta training on Beerus' world and would like to see them somewhere else. I dig the conditions for Granolah's wish and the Heeter's continue to be interesting. I wonder if Freeza will appear later on? I still can't predict where the story is heading for next. This arc feels very refreshing after having so many stories that either felt like they were retreading narratives that we'd already seen before or only heavily focusing on action over plot.

[Kinokima]

I've never read so much nonsense in my life.

UI is one of the most useful techniques in the series, an insane amp in power, speed and reactions, it will always be useful no matter how strong you are, your theory clearly contradicts many official statements.

“Nonsense”???

So agreeing with the officially given definitions of both states is nonsense???

UI = Thinking about nothing.

Hakai = Thinking about destruction.

They are two totally different and opposite states of mind, hence cannot be combined in any possible way.

Because to take on the UI form, you have to think about nothing..

While to take on the Destruction form, you have to think about total destruction..

Therefore, one has to make a choice..

Either you think about nothing and gain UI.. “OR” You think about total destruction and gain Hakai powers.. It’s one or the other, they cannot be combined.

They are two different and opposite mental states..

What facts? What you say contradicts what is seen in the story, Goku showed that it's possible to use UI and Hakai at the same time.

Goku has never used UI and Hakai at the same time. Once again Goku DID NOT Hakai the rock against Moro.

The only time Goku used something close to Hakai was against Zamasu when he was not using UI

Again I am not saying the story is stating that one cannot use UI & Hakai at the same time just that no Goku has never done this.

[Kinokima]

So Elec plans to manipulate Granolah into fighting Goku and Vegeta, members of the Saiyan race that did awful things to him in the past... This is literally the same premise as Super: Broly. Even the last page resembles some of the promo from the film.

Besides that, I did enjoy this month's chapter. I think I've seen enough of Goku and Vegeta training on Beerus' world and would like to see them somewhere else. I dig the conditions for Granolah's wish and the Heeter's continue to be interesting. I wonder if Freeza will appear later on? I still can't predict where the story is heading for next. This arc feels very refreshing after having so many stories that either felt like they were retreading narratives that we'd already seen before or only heavily focusing on action over plot.

It is somewhat similar in premise to the Broly movie but I am somehow okay with it because the Broly movie was well just a movie and barely explored the themes of revenge. In the end the Broly movie was really just one long fight

[super michael]

Granolah sacrificed his life span to 3 years just so he gains great power, however couldn't Granolah use the earth Dragon Ball to have eternal life or increase his life span?

King Piccolo by giving birth to Namekians that accelerated his aging or reduced his life span, but once he wished for eternal youth then that was no longer a issue.

[Yasai9001]

Everybody in the thread talkin' bout this and that, which is cool and all, but I really want to know what the hell did Monaito mean when he upended Granolah's life; makes me think what the old fart could have possibly done back then that messed with Granolah's life. I, for one, wouldn't be surprised if Monaito inadvertently contributed to the genocide of the Cerealians. Maybe he did something or made some deal that he didn't think would backfire. I don't know, but it's very interesting to me above all else that's going on at the moment.

I addressed it above. I think it's just the translation/wording. His life was upended when his race was exterminated, and it has been upended again due to the Dragon Balls created by Monaito. I don't think there's anything more to it than that.

Monaito seems like a straight-forwardly good, peaceful person. The only thing I can think of that might indicate otherwise is that he seems to be the only Namekian that survived Freeza's invasion. However, since he is the creator of the Dragon Balls, other Namekians would've likely prioritized saving him, and it's possible others have died for other reasons since. Perhaps the Namekian from Jaco the Galactic Patrolman could've been from Cereal.

I am really glad that you brought up the Namekian being in the Galactic Patrol. I recall seeing him in the background when Jaco was explaining his organization to Tights. I've a question, do you believe that the Galactic Patrol has a Saiyan with them? I believe there's a card game of some sort that has a Saiyan by the name of Tyber on the galactic patrol, though we very well know that they often killed Saiyan children. And to be honest with you, I find their method quite ridiculous because it would have been much more beneficial for the Galactic Patrol to recruit Saiyan children and raise them to fight for justice instead of just killing them off, ya know?

[Yasai9001]

Why is it that these people with an axe to grind against Freeza never look to the source of the tyrant? King Cold. I understand that Freeza is the face and impetus behind the PTO but why isn't anyone pointing fingers at or demanding that the monarchical progenitor of Freeza face retaliation as well?

Maybe because King Cold tends to stay behind the shadows while Freeza is all about putting himself out there. So when King Cold announced his retirement and promoted his son, Freeza probably went crazy and showed everyone who truly is boss. That's the most logical in-verse explanation that I have.

[Chuquita]

I'm in such a strange place with this manga right now. This was a very well put together chapter, it feels like it will translate well to a movie if it gets one, but it checks barely any of my personal boxes of "plot points in Dragon Ball that get me invested" so I'm left feeling decidedly neutral. I can feel confident recommending it to people at least.

This level of prolonged setup is certainly out of DB’s, and especially DBS’, usual wheelhouse, but it’s refreshing at the same time, I feel.

Thoughts on 70:

• Every scene Toyotaro gives us with the Oracle Fish is a weird delight, such as him refusing to tell Goku and Vegeta Granolah’s identity because they’ll just throw a fit, then abruptly hovering off this month.
• Granolah’s fight with the Heatas is really well done, and free of any of the usual nitpicks with over-paneled movement. Everything feels distinct and snappy.
• I wonder if confirming the existence of DBs on Cereal is going to come back to bite Granolah. Even if they wouldn’t make the same wish Granolah did, they certainly hold value for the Heatas.
• I probably feel worse for Monite than I did for Gowasu.
• I’m beginning to doubt whether Freeza will actually show up at all. He could just be the arc’s Godot.

It all leads me to the conclusion that maybe it's mostly my own expectations no longer align with the direction the franchise as a whole is taking. Maybe I'm just growing apart from it? I agree that good quality is there in the manga, and obviously lots of readers love this current arc. Would I be more interested if this were animated? I don't know. It's not a new thing for me I've been feeling like this on and off since the anime's ToP arc was airing. I think the community surrounding the weekly episodes meant a lot to me and that's just not there anymore. There's multiple things missing in it for me right now.

[batistabus]

Granolah sacrificed his life span to 3 years just so he gains great power, however couldn't Granolah use the earth Dragon Ball to have eternal life or increase his life span?

King Piccolo by giving birth to Namekians that accelerated his aging or reduced his life span, but once he wished for eternal youth then that was no longer a issue.

Has anyone ever wished to undo another wish? I don't think so, and if not, there are a lot of factors that could come into play. Is it forbidden to undo another DB wish? Can a dragon only undo a wish if its creator is stronger than the creator of the other dragon's? Presumably Super Shenlong could do any wish, but maybe it would be against Zalama's code for Porunga to undo a wish made by Toronbo. Maybe Toronbo couldn't even undo his own wish. Anyway, that's all speculation.

I am really glad that you brought up the Namekian being in the Galactic Patrol. I recall seeing him in the background when Jaco was explaining his organization to Tights. I've a question, do you believe that the Galactic Patrol has a Saiyan with them? I believe there's a card game of some sort that has a Saiyan by the name of Tyber on the galactic patrol, though we very well know that they often killed Saiyan children. And to be honest with you, I find their method quite ridiculous because it would have been much more beneficial for the Galactic Patrol to recruit Saiyan children and raise them to fight for justice instead of just killing them off, ya know?

I haven't heard of Tyber, do you have a photo? For the reason you described, I don't think it's likely the Galactic Patrol would have a Saiyan.

[DiscountDabi]

I'm intrigued with the wording of the dragons wish. "I am able to multiply your power by condensing any and all power you could have accumulated in your life time."
Could it be that the "any and all" and "could have" also signifies abilities he may not have actually learned, but he has the potential too i.e. Granolah meets somebody, or multiple people who could teach him masenko and kamehameha, kaoiken and the genki dama and even hakai or UI. He has the potential to learn all of these abilities, but he makes a choice and only learns say Khh, Kk, and Hakai, but not Masenko, GD and UI. In this scenario its possible that the dragons wish could be referring to him now knowing both. "Any and all power you could have accumulated in your lifetime". The wording of any and all would fit for a scenario like the one I mentioned above, he had the potential for every ability, but didn't learn them all. The ones that he didn't learn sit under the umbrella of "any" (any power he could have learned), and the ones he did learn sit under the umbrella of "all" (all powers he would've learned within his lifetime). So if that is actually the case the wish should be easier to digest, as it now involves chance encounters that somebody as travelled as Granolah may encounter in his life, coupled with his life span and thirst for power.

But on the other hand I may be reading way too far into this, and it's exclusively battle power... but then why does he know Hakai

Thats how I saw it too and seems to be supported by the chapter with Characters like Oatmeel and Monaito saying “Whats that technique” and “You can do that now?”


Granolah also didn’t show the ability to fly before or Sense for Ki, so it would substantiate this idea. I think it works well.

[Sora Saiyan]

I'm intrigued with the wording of the dragons wish. "I am able to multiply your power by condensing any and all power you could have accumulated in your life time."
Could it be that the "any and all" and "could have" also signifies abilities he may not have actually learned, but he has the potential too i.e. Granolah meets somebody, or multiple people who could teach him masenko and kamehameha, kaoiken and the genki dama and even hakai or UI. He has the potential to learn all of these abilities, but he makes a choice and only learns say Khh, Kk, and Hakai, but not Masenko, GD and UI. In this scenario its possible that the dragons wish could be referring to him now knowing both. "Any and all power you could have accumulated in your lifetime". The wording of any and all would fit for a scenario like the one I mentioned above, he had the potential for every ability, but didn't learn them all. The ones that he didn't learn sit under the umbrella of "any" (any power he could have learned), and the ones he did learn sit under the umbrella of "all" (all powers he would've learned within his lifetime). So if that is actually the case the wish should be easier to digest, as it now involves chance encounters that somebody as travelled as Granolah may encounter in his life, coupled with his life span and thirst for power.

But on the other hand I may be reading way too far into this, and it's exclusively battle power... but then why does he know Hakai

Thats how I saw it too and seems to be supported by the chapter with Characters like Oatmeel and Monaito saying “Whats that technique” and “You can do that now?”


Granolah also didn’t show the ability to fly before or Sense for Ki, so it would substantiate this idea. I think it works well.

Ah yes, I totally forgot about what Monaito said when Granolah did that. It definitely seems like there's some foundation for this belief then.

[Yasai9001]

Granolah sacrificed his life span to 3 years just so he gains great power, however couldn't Granolah use the earth Dragon Ball to have eternal life or increase his life span?

King Piccolo by giving birth to Namekians that accelerated his aging or reduced his life span, but once he wished for eternal youth then that was no longer a issue.

Has anyone ever wished to undo another wish? I don't think so, and if not, there are a lot of factors that could come into play. Is it forbidden to undo another DB wish? Can a dragon only undo a wish if its creator is stronger than the creator of the other dragon's? Presumably Super Shenlong could do any wish, but maybe it would be against Zalama's code for Porunga to undo a wish made by Toronbo. Maybe Toronbo couldn't even undo his own wish. Anyway, that's all speculation.

I am really glad that you brought up the Namekian being in the Galactic Patrol. I recall seeing him in the background when Jaco was explaining his organization to Tights. I've a question, do you believe that the Galactic Patrol has a Saiyan with them? I believe there's a card game of some sort that has a Saiyan by the name of Tyber on the galactic patrol, though we very well know that they often killed Saiyan children. And to be honest with you, I find their method quite ridiculous because it would have been much more beneficial for the Galactic Patrol to recruit Saiyan children and raise them to fight for justice instead of just killing them off, ya know?

I haven't heard of Tyber, do you have a photo? For the reason you described, I don't think it's likely the Galactic Patrol would have a Saiyan.

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/wp-content/u ... png?x41479

It's from Dragon Ball fusions. It's not from the manga itself, no doubt like the Namekian in Ginga Patrol Jako, but this makes me wonder if it's possible for a Saiyan to have been in the Galactic Patrol. I would say it's highly unlikely like you say, but I wouldn't deem it out of the question.

[batistabus]

Granolah sacrificed his life span to 3 years just so he gains great power, however couldn't Granolah use the earth Dragon Ball to have eternal life or increase his life span?

King Piccolo by giving birth to Namekians that accelerated his aging or reduced his life span, but once he wished for eternal youth then that was no longer a issue.

Has anyone ever wished to undo another wish? I don't think so, and if not, there are a lot of factors that could come into play. Is it forbidden to undo another DB wish? Can a dragon only undo a wish if its creator is stronger than the creator of the other dragon's? Presumably Super Shenlong could do any wish, but maybe it would be against Zalama's code for Porunga to undo a wish made by Toronbo. Maybe Toronbo couldn't even undo his own wish. Anyway, that's all speculation.

I am really glad that you brought up the Namekian being in the Galactic Patrol. I recall seeing him in the background when Jaco was explaining his organization to Tights. I've a question, do you believe that the Galactic Patrol has a Saiyan with them? I believe there's a card game of some sort that has a Saiyan by the name of Tyber on the galactic patrol, though we very well know that they often killed Saiyan children. And to be honest with you, I find their method quite ridiculous because it would have been much more beneficial for the Galactic Patrol to recruit Saiyan children and raise them to fight for justice instead of just killing them off, ya know?

I haven't heard of Tyber, do you have a photo? For the reason you described, I don't think it's likely the Galactic Patrol would have a Saiyan.

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/wp-content/u ... png?x41479

It's from Dragon Ball fusions. It's not from the manga itself, no doubt like the Namekian in Ginga Patrol Jako, but this makes me wonder if it's possible for a Saiyan to have been in the Galactic Patrol. I would say it's highly unlikely like you say, but I wouldn't deem it out of the question.

Well, we know of two Saiyans who have served in the Galactic Patrol!

[jplaya2023]

here's a question if the dragon made granolah the strongest non god in the universe meaning he's stronger than MUI goku how in the world did he not 1 shot those fodder elects? the big guy and the woman should've been turned to dust with 1 finger flick. I can't imagine MUI goku or ascended blue vegeta wouldn't 1 shot them but granola could not.

[batistabus]

here's a question if the dragon made granolah the strongest non god in the universe meaning he's stronger than MUI goku how in the world did he not 1 shot those fodder elects? the big guy and the woman should've been turned to dust with 1 finger flick. I can't imagine MUI goku or ascended blue vegeta wouldn't 1 shot them but granola could not.

Because he's not trying to kill, maim, dismember, or paralyze them. Also, Granolla isn't a cold-hearted killer. They have a working relationship together, and Granolla needs information about Freeza. He was pretty gentle during those fights. Granolla attacked Oil with one finger and then made the floor collapse underneath him. When fighting Maki, he tied her up with his scarf.

[Thani]

here's a question if the dragon made granolah the strongest non god in the universe meaning he's stronger than MUI goku how in the world did he not 1 shot those fodder elects? the big guy and the woman should've been turned to dust with 1 finger flick. I can't imagine MUI goku or ascended blue vegeta wouldn't 1 shot them but granola could not.

Because he's not trying to kill, maim, dismember, or paralyze them. Also, Granolla isn't a cold-hearted killer. They have a working relationship together, and Granolla needs information about Freeza. He was pretty gentle during those fights. Granolla attacked Oil with one finger and then made the floor collapse underneath him. When fighting Maki, he tied her up with his scarf.

Pretty much what batistabus said. It was pretty clear that Granola could have done way worse to them if he wanted to, considering the ease he was having in dealing with them.

He wanted information, not a fight, and Elec sent his goons against him so, in a way, that was Granola showing that he was both serious about fighting Freeza and that he was telling the truth about having become stronger.

[Xeogran]

I think this Chapter opens up some really intriguing possibilities.

I guess I'm most struck by the looming possibility that Granolah isn't going to the the 'Strongest in the Universe' referred to by the Oracle Fish, but rather that this might, in fact, end up being Gas.

I really think you spoiled the upcoming events with that just now, it all makes so much sense
As a fan of Gas, I hope the story goes in that direction! And with how calm he still was in this chapter, I'm sure Toyotaro has stored a lot for him