If Zamasu came back

[Kappa]

I also think it would be cool to see him from another universe. (In a spinoff) I’m not sure what he’d be like though.

[theherodjl]

If the Makaio/Makaioshin ever get officially introduced(doubtful, being that Toriyama has passed away), Zamasu should be name-dropped by them at least as a callback. It could be explained that Zamasu had become a Makaio in his insanity, and is the reason why he could create endless copies of himself/merge with the cosmos; he unknowingly drew on dark magic to give himself unnatural abilities, and all other Makaio/Makaioshin could sense his presence because of it.

[SupremeKai25]

If the Makaio/Makaioshin ever get officially introduced(doubtful, being that Toriyama has passed away), Zamasu should be name-dropped by them at least as a callback. It could be explained that Zamasu had become a Makaio in his insanity, and is the reason why he could create endless copies of himself/merge with the cosmos; he unknowingly drew on dark magic to give himself unnatural abilities, and all other Makaio/Makaioshin could sense his presence because of it.

Actually, there's pretty much no reason to involve a "Makaioshin" (whatever that is) instead of, well, simply bringing back Zamasu.

Much in the same reason why I am opposed to all those fanfics of Evil Angel, I am also opposed to Makaioshin, as there would be too much overlap with Zamasu.

Zamasu already fills the archetype of the "Evil God" as far as the Dragon Ball franchise is concerned. We don't need another villain with that archetype. Too much redundancy.

What does a Makaioshin offer that wasn't already done with Zamasu? What does a Makaioshin offer that can't be achieved simply by bringing back Zamasu (a well-established and popular villain)?

[Grimlock]

If the Makaio/Makaioshin ever get officially introduced(doubtful, being that Toriyama has passed away), Zamasu should be name-dropped by them at least as a callback.

In retrospect, Makaio/Makaioshin should have been named-dropped in Future Trunks saga. So even with Toriyama, chances were always slim they would be remembered and the characters would mention them by name. Dabura was always there as the king of the Demon Realm but was never addressed as such. Such a pity, to have that lore that is still stuck in interviews.

Honestly, I don't think they will ever be remembered now, it seems no one knows about the interviews where Toriyama mentioned them. Dragon Ball Heroes had a lot of opportunities to name-drop them, but nothing so far.

It could be explained that Zamasu had become a Makaio in his insanity, and is the reason why he could create endless copies of himself/merge with the cosmos; he unknowingly drew on dark magic to give himself unnatural abilities, and all other Makaio/Makaioshin could sense his presence because of it.

As soon as a Makaio and Makaioshin are born, they are sent straight to the Demon Realm. I think if one somehow becomes one of them, they would get the same treatment and would be sent there immediately. Yet Zamasu continued on the living realm. That is a good explanation, but I don't think it would work now.

[dbs fanboy]

I remember when that arc ended I used to daydream about scenarios like these.

In my fantasies Zamasu survives the erasure because of how powerful the Super Dragons Balls are, and became a Ghostly specter that follows Trunks into his new timeline.

Trunks seals him in his sword and leaves as he starts to believe he attracts danger and doesn't want his new reality to be in peril .

That's when you could use some XenoVerse concepts about Trunks joining the time Patrol although I always imagined him being a renegade vigilante going across time fixing issues without being affiliated to anyone, while the main XenoVerse Trunks does his thing too.

I also really like this YouTube animation's channel (forgot it's name) that made a mini series with an alternative Goku Black going around different timelines wreaking havoc. And I always thought it would be pretty funny to have him being like a main antagonist to this renegade Trunks, that holds a freaking Zamasu sword, that's still sentient and talks back to him anytime it can.

[SupremeKai25]

I mean, Zamasu was granted Invinicibility by a set of Dragon Balls that can allegedly grant any wish imaginable.

Are we really supposed to believe that Zamasu is gone-gone?

It feels like he could come back at any moment with the excuse "Oh Zeno can't over-ride the Super Dragon Balls after all". We already see in the TOP that the Super Dragon Balls can restore universes erased by Zeno, which should have been a big red flag about Zamasu's status.

If the Super Dragon Balls can restore Universes erased by Zeno, why can't they empower Zamasu to survive Zeno?

Frieza coming back felt like an asspull, Broly coming back also feels like an asspull (how no one ever sensed his energy?), but Zamasu coming back would be perfect storytelling, because there is ground to doubt Zeno's effectiveness against someone who was, for all intents and purposes, "Invincible".

[Zephyr]

Shenlong restoring a dead person to life feels like an "asspull"?

Sorry Bora, back in the ground you go.

[JulieYBM]

Bora was brought back so that Upa wouldn't become the strongest character as a result of now dedicating his life to training.

[SupremeKai25]

Shenlong restoring a dead person to life feels like an "asspull"?

Sorry Bora, back in the ground you go.

Uhm, I was obviously referring to Frieza becoming billions or trillions of times stronger in 4 months of training. The manner in which Frieza was forced into the narrative for the nostalgia milk was definitely asspull-ish.

How ironic that a DBZ movie (RoF is DBZ movie) inadvertently cheapened the Namek saga. If only Frieza had done 2 minutes of push-ups mid-fight on Namek, he might have beaten Goku.

But now that you mention it, Frieza surviving as, like, one eye and a bunch of ashes is indeed asspull-ish; though, that's par for the course with DBZ, where we had Cooler also survive as just an eye.

Naturally, none of this applies to Zamasu, since it's both established that he is immortal and able to evolve infinitely as Saiyans do; therefore, Zamasu's spotlight in the narrative will always be justified and logical.

[Zephyr]

Oh, by "coming back" you meant "getting stronger".

What makes the "Freeza just needed push ups lol" complaint fall flat, from like, a genre-literacy point of view, is that there's a difference between physical and mental/spiritual training. I can't expect someone who's only reading the comic, watching the show, or watching the films to necessarily know this stuff (because unfortunately Toriyama never spells it out in the story for the uninitiated, if I remember correctly), but for us nerds here with years of tenure and thousands of posts on a site like this, there's little excuse for our assessment of the work to not be more informed.

To that end, this is helpfully laid out officially in the Super Exciting Guide:

In battle, the most important thing is the size of your ki, and your control over it. Ki as a concept of course includes such spiritual powers as energy [genki], courage [yūki], and right-mindedness [shōki]. No matter how much you train, there are limits to physical strength, and the only way to overcome that is through ki. I think Goku was able to approach the mightiest warriors in the universe through strengthening his ki.

It is also helpfully explained unofficially in the Wuxia Thread:

In both Wuxia and real life kung fu, martial arts exercises and techniques can generally be broken down into two main categories: external (Wai, represented by Yang) and internal (Nei, represented by Yin).

External kung fu is about what you'd expect: it focuses primarily on the tangibly physical (building/improving muscles, tendons, reflexes, flexibility, etc) and concerns itself with techniques such as basic punches and kicks, grappling, etc. Things that any martial artist of any school or any skill level is bound to learn about right off the bat. This sort of training builds a fighter's personal power (or Li).

Internal however, is where the real meat lies. Internal martial arts is the training and honing of a fighter's focus, breathing, awareness, and things of that nature. In real life martial arts, internal martial arts training helps improve a fighter's psychology, patience, understanding of their surroundings in the heat of a fight, and can even help with SOME physical attributes (to an extent), particularly stamina and resistance to pain.

In the fantasy genre of Wuxia however, internal martial arts training is something profoundly more spiritual and the key to unlocking the (often literal) power of a god. In Wuxia, internal martial arts training is the primary means (shy of some sort of plot-specific magical ability-granting weapon/artifact/MacGuffin) by which the fighters of the Wulin community build their Ki (spiritual power).

All that to say, doing more push ups is external training, and that sort of training has its limits. It's hard to see Freeza's training in the revival era as not involving the kind of internal, spiritual training that would build his ki, which transcends those limits. It only feels like an asspull if you don't understand this rather basic distinction.

Him being pushed to finally explore that sort of training after hearing about how much farther Goku pushed ahead is pretty natural and organic storytelling, considering he already had a warrior's pride on Namek (as called out by Goku for not simply firing at Namek a second time after merely destroying its core).

----

As for the Super Dragon Balls, yeah, they can allegedly grant any wish imaginable. Key word being allegedly. Just like the normal Dragon Balls when they were introduced.

There's definitely room for a storyteller to say that the Super Dragon Balls could empower someone to survive Zeno, but I don't think that's necessitated by the fact that they can reverse something he did. Reversing something and preventing it are two different things. Another basic distinction.

[capsulecorp]

Him being pushed to finally explore that sort of training after hearing about how much farther Goku pushed ahead is pretty natural and organic storytelling, considering he already had a warrior's pride on Namek (as called out by Goku for not simply firing at Namek a second time after merely destroying its core).

It's also strongly implied that spending all that time in earth's hell forced him to come to terms with his limitations. He was basically coerced into a decades-long meditation training.